Pai questions and answers thread (Fundamentals)

[DrDogg]

Lots of assumptions going on here.

For the most part, you should assume Pai has carried over most of her VF frame data on block, and a few changes on hit (attacks that stun now). Don't assume anything that was unsafe in VF is suddenly safe in DOA. You also shouldn't assume you can suddenly delay strings (Akira and Sarah cannot).

She's top tier, but you can't play her exactly like she's played in VF, just like you can't play Akira and Sarah the same. Her opponents are different and the system is different. Having reversals and low throws doesn't mean anything because everyone in DOA has those.

From my experience, anyone coming from VF who has not played DOA seriously in the past, will not like their VF character at first (assuming they mained Akira, Sarah or Pai). It will take time to understand that this is not VF5:FS and while the characters have the same move set for the most part, they are not the same characters. The VF players who I've witnessed play DOA5, they have a hard time letting go of the fact that this is not VF.

 

[NightAntilli]

Can she still do her rising from crouch moves with 33 as a buffer during juggles?

 

[xFatalDMG]

Lots of assumptions going on here.

For the most part, you should assume Pai has carried over most of her VF frame data on block, and a few changes on hit (attacks that stun now). Don't assume anything that was unsafe in VF is suddenly safe in DOA. You also shouldn't assume you can suddenly delay strings (Akira and Sarah cannot).

She's top tier, but you can't play her exactly like she's played in VF, just like you can't play Akira and Sarah the same. Her opponents are different and the system is different. Having reversals and low throws doesn't mean anything because everyone in DOA has those.

From my experience, anyone coming from VF who has not played DOA seriously in the past, will not like their VF character at first (assuming they mained Akira, Sarah or Pai). It will take time to understand that this is not VF5:FS and while the characters have the same move set for the most part, they are not the same characters. The VF players who I've witnessed play DOA5, they have a hard time letting go of the fact that this is not VF.

Either way Im going to stick with her even if she feels different. Once a Pai player, always a Pai player.

 

[wali]

Lots of assumptions going on here.

For the most part, you should assume Pai has carried over most of her VF frame data on block, and a few changes on hit (attacks that stun now). Don't assume anything that was unsafe in VF is suddenly safe in DOA. You also shouldn't assume you can suddenly delay strings (Akira and Sarah cannot).

She's top tier, but you can't play her exactly like she's played in VF, just like you can't play Akira and Sarah the same. Her opponents are different and the system is different. Having reversals and low throws doesn't mean anything because everyone in DOA has those.

From my experience, anyone coming from VF who has not played DOA seriously in the past, will not like their VF character at first (assuming they mained Akira, Sarah or Pai). It will take time to understand that this is not VF5:FS and while the characters have the same move set for the most part, they are not the same characters. The VF players who I've witnessed play DOA5, they have a hard time letting go of the fact that this is not VF.

this is bad news for me this gonna be my first doa

 

[DrDogg]

this is bad news for me this gonna be my first doa

Your character is still very good. In fact, I think he's the best in the game. It's just that a lot of VF players who I've seen take a stab at DOA5, get upset that an attack that was once +5 on block is now only +3... or that a specific combo/juggle doesn't work or an attack doesn't have the same properties on hit. They go into DOA5 assuming they will be playing VF5FS.

As long as you don't have that kind of mentality, you'll be fine. Treat the VF characters in DOA5 like another expansion to VF5. Just like how Vanilla VF5 Akira doesn't play like VF5FS Akira, VF5FS Akira doesn't play like DOA5 Akira. It's more about expectations than anything else.

 

[wali]

Your character is still very good. In fact, I think he's the best in the game. It's just that a lot of VF players who I've seen take a stab at DOA5, get upset that an attack that was once +5 on block is now only +3... or that a specific combo/juggle doesn't work or an attack doesn't have the same properties on hit. They go into DOA5 assuming they will be playing VF5FS.

As long as you don't have that kind of mentality, you'll be fine. Treat the VF characters in DOA5 like another expansion to VF5. Just like how Vanilla VF5 Akira doesn't play like VF5FS Akira, VF5FS Akira doesn't play like DOA5 Akira. It's more about expectations than anything else.

good to know Akira is still Akira. i think i well have problem at first but i am really good in adapting.

 

[AKNova7]

Lots of assumptions going on here.

For the most part, you should assume Pai has carried over most of her VF frame data on block, and a few changes on hit (attacks that stun now). Don't assume anything that was unsafe in VF is suddenly safe in DOA. You also shouldn't assume you can suddenly delay strings (Akira and Sarah cannot).

She's top tier, but you can't play her exactly like she's played in VF, just like you can't play Akira and Sarah the same. Her opponents are different and the system is different. Having reversals and low throws doesn't mean anything because everyone in DOA has those.

From my experience, anyone coming from VF who has not played DOA seriously in the past, will not like their VF character at first (assuming they mained Akira, Sarah or Pai). It will take time to understand that this is not VF5:FS and while the characters have the same move set for the most part, they are not the same characters. The VF players who I've witnessed play DOA5, they have a hard time letting go of the fact that this is not VF.

Awesome! Always loved Pai Chan, and always wanted to play her on something that wasn't Virtua Fighter anyway. I was never much of a Virtua player. One crazy thing I saw, though. I believe she did 46KK and then definitely sidestepped a jab.

That move is definitely punishable in VF, and you aren't sidestepping jabs, you're getting punished with them. What kind of magic is this?

 

[DrDogg]

Awesome! Always loved Pai Chan, and always wanted to play her on something that wasn't Virtua Fighter anyway. I was never much of a Virtua player. One crazy thing I saw, though. I believe she did 46KK and then definitely sidestepped a jab.

That move is definitely punishable in VF, and you aren't sidestepping jabs, you're getting punished with them. What kind of magic is this?

Remember that punishable in DOA is not generally jab punishable. So even if the attack can be punished, chances are if you toss out a jab, Pai will be able to evade it. The problem with pretty much every single developer video is that there's no punishment going on. So in this situation, the opponent may have been able to throw punish, but doing jab would be too slow, which allows Pai to evade.

 

[xFatalDMG]

Dr. So are there any significant changes to Pai's mechanics in comparison to VF5FS? I know you briefly mentioned a couple earlier, but will she still be able to do some of her deadly setups like in FS?

 

[Chaos]

Oh ok. Well for future reference call them low throws or crouching throws in DOA. There are ground throws in DOA and that will confuse some if you are referring to her low throws as ground throws.

As far as her other stances go, I bet they are safe to transition into. I've been playing around with them in VF and thinking about her moves coming out of her Bokutai. A character that can parry shouldn't have a problem with that stance. Even with her Meishiou if those first 2 mid punches aren't a 2in1 that stance won't be all that effective once people learn her. If her other moves from BT are safe then doing Meishiou could have its uses.

I am curious to know if her unsafe attacks are still unsafe or are they safe now/5i punishable. Watching the 1st vid with the developers I think Pai did her 6K and then jabbed Gen Fu before he could counter attack. I know 6K is not a frame advantage move in VF but in DoA it looked like it. Or Pai has a 9i jab now?

I also saw that she still has parries. Pai is going to be 1 scary ass character to fight against, all of her parries in VF (except for 1) puts you in some type of fucked up position. With how DoA5 works now when you are put BT she Is going to be nuts.

I can tell Pai is going to be annoying as fuck to fight against.

 

[NightAntilli]

People in VF also find her annoying. It's in her nature lol.

 

[wali]

i hate her low and special high game

 

[synce]

If you're good with her you may be seeing a lot of "blah blah has disconnected" messages in the future

 

[NightAntilli]

i hate her low and special high game

I personally find her lows not to be that good at all, especially if you compare it to characters like Lion or Shun Di, and even Jacky. To use her better lows she needs to go into a stance which always involves risk. Her standard circular low is a huge disadvantage on hit, and her linear low might give advantage on hit, but is very slow.

As for her special highs, she really needs them because basically almost everything she has is crushable since almost all her second hits are highs. Special lows and highs do not seem to be in DOA5, because every time I saw Sarah do a low punch, it simply hits the opponent.. I really wonder how that will change Pai's game..

 

[xFatalDMG]

Would probably change her in a major way. Two different games, so the mechanics will be entirely different. After what Dr. Dogg told me, there's really no way to tell or assume until the game is in our hands. She still looks like a powerhouse though so that's totally cool.

 

[wali]

I personally find her lows not to be that good at all, especially if you compare it to characters like Lion or Shun Di, and even Jacky. To use her better lows she needs to go into a stance which always involves risk. Her standard circular low is a huge disadvantage on hit, and her linear low might give advantage on hit, but is very slow.

As for her special highs, she really needs them because basically almost everything she has is crushable since almost all her second hits are highs. Special lows and highs do not seem to be in DOA5, because every time I saw Sarah do a low punch, it simply hits the opponent.. I really wonder how that will change Pai's game..

i hated her full low circular in evade because it consider counter hit i use them my self to to make people think twice before evade and force them to play my game unfortunately i am not the only one use this trick i hated when i fall to my tricks.

 

[xFatalDMG]

 

[AKNova7]

Edit: Btw, anyone with the game. How fast is Pai's jab?

Remember that punishable in DOA is not generally jab punishable. So even if the attack can be punished, chances are if you toss out a jab, Pai will be able to evade it. The problem with pretty much every single developer video is that there's no punishment going on. So in this situation, the opponent may have been able to throw punish, but doing jab would be too slow, which allows Pai to evade.

Right, because a move can be -7 and would still be in SS range, allowing you to evade the jab. Interesting. These two punishment systems combined do interesting things in the game.

 

[HoodsXx]

Coming from a new Pai player, what would be something I should start working on in terms of getting use to using Pai? (I'm not new to DOA, just to VF chars).

 

[NightAntilli]

Learning when to use her stances. She has three of them.