Lol good idea. Thanks for the recommendation
DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crext
- Start date
DR2K
Well-Known Member
If you want to influence the tier list you have to provide some updated Match-up ratings though. Saying Gen Fu wears bras won't impact it much you know...
For Gen Fu I've created the match-up discussion thread here.
Feel free to speak your mind peeps!
Oh my, watch out for iHajinShinobi. He'll probably bite you!
Also: Updated the list (was some great updates in the Rig thread).
Arbitrary numbers match ups are silly.
Can we please update the first page with something... better? Because at least by now we have SOME tournament data that has happened, and that shit just doesn't make any sense straight up. Kokoro, Mila, and Rachel are definitely not low tier. Kokoro is used very successfully in Japan, and Japan's best player destroys everyone with Rachel.
It's so funny because DOA5U doesn't have any obvious shitty characters. There is no DOA3/DOA4 Brad or DOA2 Helena. Characters that were lacking are now better. Lisa from DOA4 got better, Christie got better, Brad got better, Leon got better (my goodness), etc. Before, these characters had some pretty obvious flaws and going into matches against high tier characters sucked for them, BUT NOW it seems like you have to watch out for EVERYBODY because the player's personal skill is much more important regardless of character. Every character has something you have to look out for, something that can take you down.
Every character has some pretty good tools to win of some kind and because of DOA's system, so it makes it entirely possible to win with any character alone, which why I don't get why people shit on DOA so much. There are few other games out there that can have all characters being practically viable in tournament play. And of course the comeback mechanic helps everyone out as well, for DOA5's case anyway.
I'm not saying tiers don't exist, they obviously do on some level, but I find it really difficult with particularly this game to start placing people in tiers that are accurate. If anything this page is going to confuse people. If there's any truly new people reading this out there trying to get some information on what character they should play, honestly, pick someone you like and learn that character and the game. In DOA5U, don't worry about tiers as much as other games, at least for now because FOR THE MOST PART, people don't know what they're talking about (imo of course).
It's so funny because DOA5U doesn't have any obvious shitty characters. There is no DOA3/DOA4 Brad or DOA2 Helena. Characters that were lacking are now better. Lisa from DOA4 got better, Christie got better, Brad got better, Leon got better (my goodness), etc. Before, these characters had some pretty obvious flaws and going into matches against high tier characters sucked for them, BUT NOW it seems like you have to watch out for EVERYBODY because the player's personal skill is much more important regardless of character. Every character has something you have to look out for, something that can take you down.
Every character has some pretty good tools to win of some kind and because of DOA's system, so it makes it entirely possible to win with any character alone, which why I don't get why people shit on DOA so much. There are few other games out there that can have all characters being practically viable in tournament play. And of course the comeback mechanic helps everyone out as well, for DOA5's case anyway.
I'm not saying tiers don't exist, they obviously do on some level, but I find it really difficult with particularly this game to start placing people in tiers that are accurate. If anything this page is going to confuse people. If there's any truly new people reading this out there trying to get some information on what character they should play, honestly, pick someone you like and learn that character and the game. In DOA5U, don't worry about tiers as much as other games, at least for now because FOR THE MOST PART, people don't know what they're talking about (imo of course).
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Well I appreciate the compliment but understand this. Just because not many people utilize his tools properly doesnt me hes b tier. Genfu has dominated tournaments lately. But im not going to discuss his placement anymore. Most people know where hes at anyway. Besides they never change genfu so I really shouldnt try to sell him lol
Old man's always good. :v
vINv
Active Member
one other thing striker i dont need your aproval on anything most of the advice u gave 4ppl playing rachel does not work u need to quit bashing ppl and base your arguement with frames and notatations and set ups that are actually viable im blocking you and also SR i look foward to playing u person some time trying tk get some money together fly to the next major
Ivan Osorio
Active Member
Thanks so much for Crext, P1naatt1ke1tt0 and Saber for taking the time to try and explain this to me (and anyone who may subsequently have this question and stumble upon these posts). I really appreciate it. You people are fantastic.
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Could you please share your opinion in this thread?
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/gen-fus-match-up-rating-discussion.4036/
Would appreciate it.
vINv
Active Member
the one issue with making a tier list is what base it on resulsts from tournMents which is usually based upon player exp plus the char the use vs the persons exp and there char ppl arnt perfect they make mistakes so idk when make a tier list i base it not on human error but on paper frames tools setups etc hers my Opinion not based on mu's just based on tools and viable application and frames
You can't breakdown a list just by the numbers. You have to play against the characters & both of them have to expose all of their viable tools against one another. That's how matches & lists works. The characters with the best numbers are rated based off of that. Frames are good to know because that will let you know what beats out what just like you can't just go through tool sets & then say "such & such is S tier". It's broken down into match ups within the cast.
Also, the player can be good "with the character". That doesn't necessarily mean that the character is good. The character could be considered the worst character in the game on the tier list, but if the player is good, then that certain character is good in the right player's hands. Just like they can be the best character in the game, but the player doesn't really know what they are doing with them in order to win.
This has actually gone a bit off topic too.
Also, the player can be good "with the character". That doesn't necessarily mean that the character is good. The character could be considered the worst character in the game on the tier list, but if the player is good, then that certain character is good in the right player's hands. Just like they can be the best character in the game, but the player doesn't really know what they are doing with them in order to win.
This has actually gone a bit off topic too.
vINv
Active Member
valid point char tools plus player skill idk i dont like the concept of player skill influencing tier chart but its hard to ignore japnesse play differnt from us so i watch alot of there matches if u go by player skill based on what ive seen of there game play there application then what i posted is about accurate
I've still never heard anyone talking shit about you. :v
SpellBound
Well-Known Member
Where do you guys see ayane and kusami being place in the tier list for the next patch?
I read the notes, but I'm not sure what's good and what's bad with them.
I read the notes, but I'm not sure what's good and what's bad with them.
Malfury
Active Member
Everyone, please calm down a bit. This topic, if anything, seems to serve the purpose of delving deep into the technical levels of this game and discussing it with like minds, then making a comprehensive list of tiers by character and theorycrafting MUs to see how each character stacks up with each other (hope that makes sense). I think this topic is a good idea because, not only do you learn more about characters through other people's perspectives and ideas, tech can be created/realized this way.
But on the other hand, as far as tier lists go.. Most times tier lists are based on proven data and meta game from characters that have proven themselves in major tournaments and qualifiers with great to little success.
So with that said, tier lists are always a controversial thing in fighting games and the idea surrounding them is always interesting and up for debate, but no one should really care about them either. Pick the character you like or vibe with and go all the way to be a top player (if you wish), and just have fun.
But on the other hand, as far as tier lists go.. Most times tier lists are based on proven data and meta game from characters that have proven themselves in major tournaments and qualifiers with great to little success.
So with that said, tier lists are always a controversial thing in fighting games and the idea surrounding them is always interesting and up for debate, but no one should really care about them either. Pick the character you like or vibe with and go all the way to be a top player (if you wish), and just have fun.
Yaguar
Well-Known Member
Source
Just as a recap for everyone. I love reading these things so if people could provide me with information on the match up, what tools they have that work and what tools are shut down etc.
See a lot of people just going "5-5" and "S Rank: Eliot, Rig, Steve, Mega Steve" with no real information which doesn't help anyone to decide or offer points on (not start a flame war, offer points).
Sooooo yeah... Good work chaps and chappettes.
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
If I say something that has been said in the last few pages, don't get mad. You can't blame me for not reading that. (lol)
Rachel versus Leon.
Rachel versus Tina.
They aren't too different. They're both slow and do some mad damage. Biggest differences are Rachel being super heavy and Tina having more/better throw/OH options. As far as I know Tina has better juggles against lighter characters. Obviously Tina can't max out on damage against a super heavyweight. There aren't a lot of mix ups from both characters and I think that in the end both characters are even. 5-5
Rachel versus Bass.
Basically the same as Leon. Both heavy and it looks shitty. Rachel does have better speed while Bass has some of the best throws in the game. Rachels OHs will not be usable at all when Bass knows what she's doing and you can lose a solid 30/40% every time you go for your useful tools. Only thing Rachel really has is their speed because other than speed vs damage they feel similar.
5-5 or Rachel 4-6 Bass. I'll leave that to the more experienced players.
Could try Rachel versus Helena, Kokoro and Brad later (two of those are in her favor as far as I know, so don't worry). Just need to know a bit more. Also, it seems like Rachel is a bad character from the MUs I just wrote while she really isn't, haha.
That's what I have. Do whatever you wanna do with this information. #RachelForHigherTier2014
Rachel versus Leon.
So, Rachel 4-6 Leon. Maybe 5-5.
Rachel versus Tina.
They aren't too different. They're both slow and do some mad damage. Biggest differences are Rachel being super heavy and Tina having more/better throw/OH options. As far as I know Tina has better juggles against lighter characters. Obviously Tina can't max out on damage against a super heavyweight. There aren't a lot of mix ups from both characters and I think that in the end both characters are even. 5-5
Rachel versus Bass.
Basically the same as Leon. Both heavy and it looks shitty. Rachel does have better speed while Bass has some of the best throws in the game. Rachels OHs will not be usable at all when Bass knows what she's doing and you can lose a solid 30/40% every time you go for your useful tools. Only thing Rachel really has is their speed because other than speed vs damage they feel similar.
5-5 or Rachel 4-6 Bass. I'll leave that to the more experienced players.
Could try Rachel versus Helena, Kokoro and Brad later (two of those are in her favor as far as I know, so don't worry). Just need to know a bit more. Also, it seems like Rachel is a bad character from the MUs I just wrote while she really isn't, haha.
That's what I have. Do whatever you wanna do with this information. #RachelForHigherTier2014
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