Blackula
Active Member
Talking about flash, if you knock Taka to a lower level, he better leave a damn imprint in the ground, LOL.
Virtua Fighter vs Dead or Alive discussion thread
- Thread starter Blackula
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Talking about flash, if you knock Taka to a lower level, he better leave a damn imprint in the ground, LOL.
Blackula
Active Member
Jimmy, I'll be glad to answer that question for you. VF and DOA have similarities indeed. They both use the same button configuration GPK / HPK. They both utilize different weight classes. They both utilize open/close stance. They both follow the triangle system. And while these similarities exist, far greater differences completely outweigh this.
VF has a much better sidestep than DOA. You won't be seeing linear strings track in the middle of a string. VF has an actual throw break system. All throws can be broken except back throws. In DOA, only neutral throws (not on hi counter) and multi-throws can be broken. Throws are the major form of punishment in DOA which leads me to my next point, VF has a hell of a lot better punishment than DOA. I'll give you a small example. Pai has a string PP4PKK that ends in a low that's -18. In VF at -18, pretty much every character will be launching you with their strongest launcher. In DOA, you punish it with a low grab which is only just a slap on the wrist. Matt and I were playing DOA5 a few months ago and one of our VF friends, who happens to play Sarah, tried the game out. His only question was "How do you break throws?" VF characters in VF have a lot more guarantees, natural combos, frame advantage, frame traps, and are just overall safer. Also, you cannot escape stuns in VF. Staggers you can struggle out of but stuns will guarantee you a combo. Also, tracking makes sense in VF. If a move isn't a 360 move, it will not track in both directions. If a move is going to one direction, it will track in one direction and can be avoided by going the opposite direction. In DOA, a move either tracks or it doesn't track.
So imagine a VF player wanting to play DOA and then realizing that they lose all of this stuff when they go over to DOA. It's not easy for a lot of them to give that up. Even many of our own DOA players realize these issues and wish DOA were slightly more like VF in those aspects I mentioned. There are VF players that do play the game and just enjoy it for what it brings. I'm one of those.
Their strings wouldn't have to be dumbed down because remember, VF has a better sidestep than DOA. And majority of the strings in DOA are unsafe anyway. And considering that VF has excellent attack punish, trying to just mix up with strings all day wouldn't be the wisest thing to do because they would be getting punished for it. Remember, in VF, you don't get a slap in the wrist for finishing extremely unsafe strings. You lose a lot of life.
Stop making sense. This is a DOA forum.
Blackula
Active Member
So far so good. We've had some decent discussion in this thread.
I would just like to reiterate this fact. The fact that DOA5 has VF characters in its game is VERY significant. That is just the first step for something like this to even take place. After seeing that, people had already begun to question would a crossover game eventually be made. Well, Team Ninja showed that the characters from both franchise CAN work well together in the same game.
Many suggestions have been given so far, and I hope many more are shared. But as many suggestions come in, there are many questions to follow up. One of the main questions, if not the absolute main question, that need to be answered is who exactly is going to develop the game: Sega AM2 or Team Ninja? I don't know how much influence we can have on that one as that will definitely be determined by those two teams. Though there are 4 possibilities that can result from this:
1. Sega AM2 develops the game
2. Team Ninja develops the game
3. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja both do separate versions (VF vs DOA) and (DOA vs VF)
4. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja work together on the game (ideal solution if possible)
Keeping the aforementioned possible solutions in mind, I'll come back and reference them, the next thing that needs to be determined is what do we want in the game. Reading most of the posts, majority of them agree that we want a fighting system like VF but with the DOA presentation (stages, story, etc). Two complaints that have come about is that 1) VF while fun to play is boring to watch, and this coming from one of our top VF players and 2) DOA lacks the depth that VF has but is very enjoyable to watch at high level play. To sum it up, VF lacks the flash that DOA has and DOA lacks the dept that VF has. So then how do get the best of both worlds in one game? Now time to reference the previous question.
1. Sega AM2 develops the game. Question: Can Sega actually make a game with flash? The series has existed since 1993 and each game has pretty much lacked it. There is a story that they are not really telling.
2. Team Ninja develops the game. Question: Can Team Ninja give us the depth of a system like VF? The main issue many have had about the game is the stun/hold system, the amount of guessing involved, punishment options, etc.
3. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja both do separate versions. Questions: If this were to happen, each developer could have his way with how they want to develop the game. Possible problem: Would the opposite community support the other developer's game?
4. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja work together on the game. Question: Have two companies ever worked together on a project like this? From what I've been told, it's usually just one developer taking over the whole project with the other developer just providing licenses for the use of their content.
Discuss.
I would just like to reiterate this fact. The fact that DOA5 has VF characters in its game is VERY significant. That is just the first step for something like this to even take place. After seeing that, people had already begun to question would a crossover game eventually be made. Well, Team Ninja showed that the characters from both franchise CAN work well together in the same game.
Many suggestions have been given so far, and I hope many more are shared. But as many suggestions come in, there are many questions to follow up. One of the main questions, if not the absolute main question, that need to be answered is who exactly is going to develop the game: Sega AM2 or Team Ninja? I don't know how much influence we can have on that one as that will definitely be determined by those two teams. Though there are 4 possibilities that can result from this:
1. Sega AM2 develops the game
2. Team Ninja develops the game
3. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja both do separate versions (VF vs DOA) and (DOA vs VF)
4. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja work together on the game (ideal solution if possible)
Keeping the aforementioned possible solutions in mind, I'll come back and reference them, the next thing that needs to be determined is what do we want in the game. Reading most of the posts, majority of them agree that we want a fighting system like VF but with the DOA presentation (stages, story, etc). Two complaints that have come about is that 1) VF while fun to play is boring to watch, and this coming from one of our top VF players and 2) DOA lacks the depth that VF has but is very enjoyable to watch at high level play. To sum it up, VF lacks the flash that DOA has and DOA lacks the dept that VF has. So then how do get the best of both worlds in one game? Now time to reference the previous question.
1. Sega AM2 develops the game. Question: Can Sega actually make a game with flash? The series has existed since 1993 and each game has pretty much lacked it. There is a story that they are not really telling.
2. Team Ninja develops the game. Question: Can Team Ninja give us the depth of a system like VF? The main issue many have had about the game is the stun/hold system, the amount of guessing involved, punishment options, etc.
3. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja both do separate versions. Questions: If this were to happen, each developer could have his way with how they want to develop the game. Possible problem: Would the opposite community support the other developer's game?
4. Sega AM2 and Team Ninja work together on the game. Question: Have two companies ever worked together on a project like this? From what I've been told, it's usually just one developer taking over the whole project with the other developer just providing licenses for the use of their content.
Discuss.
Based on the situation, it would be best if Sega AM2 and Team Ninja work together on making a VF/DOA crossover. I think Sega AM2 can focus on one aspect, while Team Ninja can focus on another. I think it's best to have Sega AM2 focus on making an in-depth system and character customization, Team Ninja work on character art and storylines. Have both teams work on stages. Also, both DOA community and VF community need to talk to each other.
Back to the idea of ring out stages, keep in mind that DOA1 (Saturn/Model 2 version) were all ring out stages surrounded with danger zones. I could see that happen.
Back to the idea of ring out stages, keep in mind that DOA1 (Saturn/Model 2 version) were all ring out stages surrounded with danger zones. I could see that happen.
Blackula
Active Member
I wouldn't label it a ring out stage. Remember, when people think of ring outs, they think automatic win. Those were stages with danger zones that if you got knocked down did additional damage.
Blackula
Active Member
Just saw this article from a link someone posted over on VFDC.
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/02/1...n-a-dead-or-alive-x-virtua-fighter-crossover/
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/02/1...n-a-dead-or-alive-x-virtua-fighter-crossover/
I would completely go with a co-developed game. TN can handle level design, story, "flash" as it were, and Sega/AM2 can handle characters and fighting engine. Perfect. While they're at it, gimme a Bass/Wolf tag team and I'll be happier than a pig in the mud.
I want to be a fly on the wall in the room when AM2 and Team Ninja work together and AM2 laughs at all of Team Ninja's ideas on balance.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Meh don't care the Wii sucks and Nintendo sucks. Fatal Frame couldn't motivate me to get one. Mistwalker studios couldn't do it either and Bayonetta 2 certainly won't. The Wii is ass and the WiiU is a bleached asshole.
The WiiU will just get owned like its predecessor. That's one reason why it came out before M$'s and Sony's next gen console. Nintendo knows they're gonna lose the console war. So their making money while they can. As a side note Platinum Games can eat a dick fot making Bayonetta 2 WiiU exclusive. I know the reasoning and still don't care.
Oh right this thread is about a vf doa crossover. I like VF and I like DoA.
The WiiU will just get owned like its predecessor. That's one reason why it came out before M$'s and Sony's next gen console. Nintendo knows they're gonna lose the console war. So their making money while they can. As a side note Platinum Games can eat a dick fot making Bayonetta 2 WiiU exclusive. I know the reasoning and still don't care.
Oh right this thread is about a vf doa crossover. I like VF and I like DoA.
I love my Wii for Fatal Frame 4. Fk you Koompbala lmao.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
I loved my NES for the abundant amount of good games. I loved my SNES for the plethora of great games and IP's that started on it. I then loved my 64 for the handful of good games on it. I also loved my GC for the handful of good games on it. Then the Wii came out and I realized something.
Why am I gonna like this console for a handful of games. Why am I gonna torture myself with such a horrendus controller. Why buy the the WiiU for its handful of games to come out like Bayonetta 2 and ..... Once the 64 came out there's been a steady trend of suck from Nintendo. Its time I moved on to better things and that's exactly what I did.
As a side note. I support VFxDoA just not on the Wii.
Why am I gonna like this console for a handful of games. Why am I gonna torture myself with such a horrendus controller. Why buy the the WiiU for its handful of games to come out like Bayonetta 2 and ..... Once the 64 came out there's been a steady trend of suck from Nintendo. Its time I moved on to better things and that's exactly what I did.
As a side note. I support VFxDoA just not on the Wii.
Even if it did come out on WiiU not like it'd be exclusive. Not that I care about the console right now.
For the record guys, just because it was talked about on a Nintendo-news website, doesn't mean it's coming out for the Wii U. This is just an article saying that Team Ninja is interested in a VF/DOA crossover.
Back on topic, I don't know if there is much to say about the DOA/VF crossover. But question is, should holds be given to certain DOA characters like in Virtua Fighter?
Back on topic, I don't know if there is much to say about the DOA/VF crossover. But question is, should holds be given to certain DOA characters like in Virtua Fighter?
Blackula
Active Member
Yes. SOME characters, but not all, should get holds. They should be character specific. I brought up that idea in one of my earlier posts on how I would distribute them.
I do not think Doa characters using the Vf engine will work well. The main reason why Vf feels like there is little to no flash is based around the engine itself. What should happen is Doa should get its own engine together and use that as the base. Doa just need minor tweaks to be great, not a whole reinvention.
Blackula
Active Member
Try telling that to the VF players. If a crossover game remotely plays like any of the DOAs (stuns, counters), that's an automatic turn off to a majority of them which means 0 support for this. And even many of our own DOA players agree that if this game happens, the best of both worlds from both sides should be merged together to which I give my 100% support on that.
Recently, I talked with the head honcho at VFDC, Myke, and he had a nice post to which I wouldn't mind seeing that happen as well. It was one of my first thoughts before I went into full fledged crossover mode. Here is the link to his post.
http://virtuafighter.com/threads/vi...ve-discussion-thread.17800/page-5#post-357331
-I personally do not like all the stunning and countering in current Doa. If its a modified Doa2/3 than I would be fine with it. Like I said earlier, the reason VF is bland, is due to the engine itself. Doa share many of the same core elements,fundamentals, and game theory, yet its engine promotes flashiness and excitement. For VF to obtain such flashiness, it would infact have to become Doa. Its the only logical next step...And thus the reasoning why VF have never moved beyond what it is.Blackula said:
-This is why I say they have to use Doa's engine if they would like for the game to be flashy. What Team Ninja would have to do, is tighten up and refine Doa's overall engine. Utilizing many of VF's gameplay elements would help refine the engine.