Yes or No to Patch?

[DR2K]

So all her blender transitions are +1 in the patch, and not just her standalone 236p?

Don't know the frame advantage, and most people don't tech it. She's at disadvantage if they tech the blender and your 6p whiffs. Don't know the numbers. She can keep herself at advantage if they tech and she doesn't do a 6p. So it's a mix up, but she still removes the wake up kick for the most part.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

So all her blender transitions are +1 in the patch, and not just her standalone 236p?

I think you mean 236P+K which is +1 on block, all her other 3in1's are still punishable by a 15f mid or low.

Shame her new safe strings are still punishable by grappler's. Doesn't help at all against Busa.

 

[Awesmic]

I think you mean 236P+K which is +1 on block, all her other 3in1's are still punishable by a 15f mid or low.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Shame indeed.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Shame indeed.

Unfortunately TN seems to balance based on tournament footage so just because people didn't know how or chose not to punish them properly they assumed they are okay as they are.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I can see what he's trying to get at though. It's that western flair vs. japanese precision thing.

How can you be precise in a game that encompasses so much guessing?

 

[Raansu]

Don't know the frame advantage, and most people don't tech it. She's at disadvantage if they tech the blender and your 6p whiffs. Don't know the numbers. She can keep herself at advantage if they tech and she doesn't do a 6p. So it's a mix up, but she still removes the wake up kick for the most part.

She's still at advantage if 6p misses, just not as much as she was in 1.02 and it only works when all the punch's of the slaps connect. The major difference is they weakened the launch height of her BKO setups so the last punch of her slaps wont connect if they tech roll. The pseudo is still there, you have to tech roll or she will force tech you, it's just not as good as it was before, especially since the only time she can get all the slaps to connect is on counter/hi counter hit launch from 6k or 7k, and even then the advantage isn't as good as it was in 1.02 where standing 6p was 15 frames and would beat out a 9 frame jab. Her 11 frame jab will still win out against a 9 frame, but that's about it. So it's much more limiting in 1.03.

So basically they made it so she can't get that ridiculous loop from even the lowest launch height and they lowered the advantage a bit.

 

[DR2K]

She's still at advantage if 6p misses, just not as much as she was in 1.02 and it only works when all the punch's of the slaps connect. The major difference is they weakened the launch height of her BKO setups so the last punch of her slaps wont connect if they tech roll. The pseudo is still there, you have to tech roll or she will force tech you, it's just not as good as it was before, especially since the only time she can get all the slaps to connect is on counter/hi counter hit launch from 6k or 7k, and even then the advantage isn't as good as it was in 1.02 where standing 6p was 15 frames and would beat out a 9 frame jab. Her 11 frame jab will still win out against a 9 frame, but that's about it. So it's much more limiting in 1.03.

So basically they made it so she can't get that ridiculous loop from even the lowest launch height and they lowered the advantage a bit.

See I tested it out against Christie's jab and kept losing to it on 6p whiff tech. I used Helena's p from bokuho which is 11 frames now and kept losing.

 

[Raansu]

See I tested it out against Christie's jab and kept losing to it on 6p whiff tech. I used Helena's p from bokuho which is 11 frames now and kept losing.

She only keeps advantage if all the slaps connect, and they only connect at max height. If you watch, a lot of the BKO setups she doesn't launch very high anymore, and the last punch of the slap will never connect.

For example in 1.02 you could do 2f+k 6ppk > 4pk > 33p4p slap setup and the last slap would always connect. In 1.03 you can't do that anymore. The pseudo is still there, but the last slap will always miss if they tech roll immediately so she doesn't get that slam giving her that tech advantage. If they don't tech roll then ya, the last punch will hit giving her 6p, but it's basically like hitting someone twice who's on the ground already.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I want to know the exact frames for her pseudo's before I jump down TN's throat for fucking her up. I might pick up a second hand copy for my PS3 so I can test it out.

Hopefully her set ups are salvageable. It would be a pretty large dick move for them to nerf the only thing that dragged her out of low tier and give her some fairly useless buff's to compensate.

Then again Master was doing extremely well with Busa and he got more buff's than any character, Mamba did well and Helena got shit on as a result. Cause of that I don't trust TN with their balance decisions.

 

[tnzk]

How can you be precise in a game that encompasses so much guessing?

Not sure if sarcasm advances the cause, because you might miss the point. I'm also not sure if we're talking about the same concept of precision; it's a play style, not a mastery of mechanics. Using the same example I used before, Latif is one of the most incredibly precise executioners in the game - you don't play Viper like he does without learning all her fucking tricks and then some - but he doesn't have a precise play style like Fuudo or Daigo, which was what lost him Evo 2k11. He didn't even place in the top 20 in Evo 2012, but that HK player Human Bomb reached the top ten, and he 'practiced' by playing Diablo 3 instead.

In any case, I was talking about fighting games in general, and after watching quite a few Japanese streams of DoA5 on nicovideo and Ustream, it looks like that whole east vs. west style bleeds into this game as well. Whether it's because the Japanese don't know jack about DoA and are treating it like some redheaded VF clone, or whether they're doing something we don't, I'm not sure. Might take an actual international tournament to decide.

 

[dawnbringer]

It also doesn't help that there isn't very many lobbies to begin with and I have no interest starring at the search bar for ranked.

You can search for ranked matches while playing arcade or training mode.

 

[Something-Unique]

I wanna say yes to the patch because it made more general advances to the game that are good in comparison to those that were bad. However...... I feel despite the few steps they took forward they took quite a few steps back that are more annoying.

The stealth nerf to the ground game has to be one of the dumbest changes of them all because in the end it altered the game balance for the worst. Tons of characters still have their ground force tech shenanigans but others lost their own for no particular reason. Mila was butchered to hell and back with this system change among other things which was beyond unjustified.

Also with this patch they have shown just how bad they are at game balance with strong characters still remaining stupid but others who were deemed weaker by the majority catching harder nerfs.

I also still don't understand why they took out korean style wavedashing which could have been something to embrace to add another layer of movement to the game. Especially a game which people people consider to have the worst movement of them all. Which is almost entirely true.

The sidestep system is still ass. Come to think of it I don't think anything about this patch really changed anything significant for the better in regards to the actual game at a competitive level. So the more I write the more I believe it made the game worse.

Also R.I.P Mila who is complete ass now and also a really boring, generic, extremely simple minded character to play now.

Since the poll option with not liking the the changes is to simple because it focuses only on the fact "character got nerfed do not like" I won't actually select an option but I will say "I do not like the competitive changes for a number of reasons". Enough that I no longer am interested in the game personally. Sad truth.

 

[rximmortal]

Changes about mila that will make her competitive again and not broken in the same time:
P+T - sit down stun on counter hit
K,P - same status as 3PP
7P - returned as before.

 

[BlackxxxMamba]

"Boo Hoo! Helena had Force Techs. Helena had NH Low Stuns. Helena had great pressure."

We had a LITTLE bit of Character Individuality in Helena and people want to cry about it because she was "too tough?" I forgot, the DOA Community wants every character to play exactly the same...

 

[Project Bokuho]

"Boo Hoo! Helena had Force Techs. Helena had NH Low Stuns. Helena had great pressure."

We had a LITTLE bit of Character Individuality in Helena and people want to cry about it because she was "too tough?" I forgot, the DOA Community wants every character to play exactly the same...

Is this honestly the only FGC that has people complaining about a character's individuality? Back in the golden age of gaming (the 90's) people didn't whine about this, they welcomed it; especially when it comes to boss characters (example: Shao Kahn, Devil, etc). And now people just complain like little kids instead of just accepting that they lost and learn from their mistakes. It's just silly that people take character individuality as a problem in my opinion.

 

[DR2K]

Helena's constant Psudo-teching was incredibly boring to play. Now she has it to some degree, but she's a better character overall.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I want to know exactly how toned down it is. She had +4 before the patch so exactly how toned down is it?

 

[DR2K]

I want to know exactly how toned down it is. She had +4 before the patch so exactly how toned down is it?

They can before the second to last hit. She's at -1 or -2 if I had to guess.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

They can before the second to last hit. She's at -1 or -2 if I had to guess.

If she is left at negative would it be wise to even use it? Even if you by pass the wake up kick you are still put on the defensive afterwards.

Lemme muse for a second. If they tech as soon as they can you won't need to do 6P obviously as you will have seen them tech so when they tech on the 2nd to last hit and you don't do 6P would she still be a negative frames?

 

[DR2K]

If she is left at negative would it be wise to even use it? Even if you by pass the wake up kick you are still put on the defensive afterwards.

Lemme muse for a second. If they tech as soon as they can you won't need to do 6P obviously as you will have seen them tech so when they tech on the 2nd to last hit and you don't do 6P would she still be a negative frames?

They can choose not to tech and try to wake up kick you, you can also not do the 6p and be at advantage with they tech. Mind games.