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Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate General Discussion
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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Worse than 3H+K is 4PK. I mean seriously, that's some bullshit.I'm not sure how many people will agree with me, but I can safely say Hayabusa could do with some buffs I mean he got nerfed hardcore in the E3 build of 5U, 3H+K one of his best tools is now unsafe and DOESN'T guard break? come on!! also could do with a few more tracking attacks it's so easy to whiff with Busa just cuz a fair majority don't track. But NEVER add tracks to ongyoin though the only Ongyoin attacks that might be useful tracking attacks are ongyoin K or Ongyoin PPhP( if these already do track then I'll apologise for being scrubby haha)
and speed buffs! speed buffs errywhur he needs to be a bit faster he's the slowest of all the Ninjas in 5 when before he used to be about if not equal to than faster than Hayate that kinda needs to be fixed if possible the only ones who can't really out punch him are Bass, Tina and Bayman and thats cuz they're grapplers.
OH and a good portian of his attacks are unsafe which almost anything and everything will be punished if you use the wrong move at the wrong time or you fuck up and use the wrong attack.#BuffHayabusa
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
Why buff Rig? He is so under rated. He's very safe, has great frame traps, natural combo's, great force techs and PFT's, has great guaranteed damage. In fact, all his unholdable sit down stuns grants him free launchers. Has a i12 CH launcher, and a ceiling throw. Okay maybe he sucks a crushing, but everything else makes up for that.
Almost forgot he has great mix up potential.
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Deleted member 473
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I was just saying Rig because he needs a recognition buff LMFAO. He also gets mid kick countered a lot too. I think he needs a parry like Sarah has.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
Thats what I was thinking. The most I'd give Rig in DOA5U is a low sabaki from 4P+K and a mid Sabaki from 6P+K and tweak the property on some of his moves so he has better tracking.
Chaos
Well-Known Member
Hitomi, Ryu, Mila & Hayate needs to be buff as well.
Ren Fujin
Member
This. Hitomi has good tools, but she needs at least ONE consistent garanteed setup. 46K is bullshit.
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Deleted member 473
Guest
Mila, I forgot about her too. She needs an air takedown and from wall. And more guarantee combos.
Hitomi just needs what Ren just said.
Ninjas don't need no more options. They are already too safe.
Chaos
Well-Known Member
The open and close stance is the reason why 46K is so damn inconsistent.
Also, she need something guaranteed from her punch parry, frame advantage and the recovery of her 8K needs to be decrease so it can come out a bit faster.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
HA! Busa isn't safe at all a good majority of his attacks are unsafe and it's even worse in 5U so far only Ayane and Kasumi are super safe Busa and Hayate are super slow and super unsafe in DoA5
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
A.I. cheap? we must be playing different versions of the game cuz I have almost no problem with it even level 8 the only thing cheap is the fact if you can't tech roll they down attack you 3 times before you can finally get back up.
d3v
Well-Known Member
-Consider that Storm wasn't even considered top tier up until 2-3 years into the games life.
-Consider that Storm's dominance in the air is threatened by Sentinel who has the best tools in the air, save for the fact that Storm can fly higher.
-Consider that infinites aren't even the best sources of damage in the game (if you play rush down, then you go for resets. For Storm however, you want to be combo into super to DHC into Sentinel's plasma ball).
-Consider that high damage and one touch kills are perfectly fine in a 3v3 tag team game that has a slippery slope by design and a person down to 1 man needs to be able to comeback against a team of 3.
-Consider that team composition is so much more important than individual characters.
-Consider that changing even the assist can change the whole dynamic of a team.
-Consider that the MvC2 scene was, for the most part of 10 years, an arms race where players where doing their best to develop new teams and tech and counter whatever new teams and tech their rivals found.
-Consider that the high risk nature of Marvel, where one mistake can cost you a character (or more) is exactly what makes it competitive and appealing to players. It's just like high-stakes all in poker. Both players need to commit fully and play at their best at all times lest they get blown up and lose. To be competitive at Marvel is to be competitive under loads of pressure and it's this challenge that draws people to it.
In these notes above, you can see the two pillars of competitive MvC2 - first is the deep sandbox in the game that allows players to continually develop tech (folks were finding out new things up until last year), second in the high stakes nature that appeals to competitive players (for more on this, read this article).
Now, if I may be allowed to steer this back on topic, these are lessons that TN (and any other fighting game dev) can learn. At the end of the day, balance is less important than having a truly interesting sandbox that allows players to continually develop tech. Tournament history has already shown that it's not the most balanced fighters that keep getting played at tournaments, but rather it's the ones where the viable characters have proven to be "interesting." (for more on this, read this article) Indeed, many of the long time tournament favorites are games that many a scrub would deem "broken."
The other point is something that hits even closer to home, what with the recent reversion to 300 life in the Japanese demo kiosks. Risk is an important factor in making a game competitive. The lower the risk there is from someone making a mistake, the less meaning each individual action in the game has. With higher risk (lower life) each individual action has more meaning, more importance simply because doing one action wrong could cost you the entire match. What does this mean for DOA5U then. Well it depends on the overall damage output with the new systems. My worry however is that the hold/stun system might nullify some of this since it allows people to escape the consequences of their actions.
Ren Fujin
Member
Quite right. Maybe a solution would be to make 46K's garanteed followups not stance dependant.
The thing is, one of her best tool - 6H+P - is too weak in its current state compared to say, Zack's. In DOA4, the advantage she would get from this throw was based on hit status, but since this mechanic doesn't exist anymore in 5, she gets +10 regardless. I say give it at least +12. And remove its pushback too.
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
Against certain characters, everything I do gets held no matter how much I mix up combos and highs mids and lows. When I'm fighting it almost feels like the AI chooses when I'm allowed to get hits in rather than me being smarter than the computer. To be fair, it's no where near what 5 was patchless, but there's still command reading going on.
Maybe it's just me, but it also seems 6 and 7 are harder than 8. When I was collecting titles it would take me 0-3 tries depending on who I fought for each match in legend, but 1-6 in true fighter and master. :/
Ren Fujin
Member
It's because that's exacly what's actually going on. The A.I always reads your input, and depending on the difficulty level, it will choose whether to act accordingly or not. Probably based of some variables included in the programming.
So yeah, each time you land a hit, it's because it's actually letting you.
bingsoo
Well-Known Member
o.o
Kasumi can string delay and free cancel, and Ayane can poke from range, but they need to do this because they are not safe. Yes, they are both top tier characters in 5, but they are also both characters who need to work around their lack of safety. Against a person who doesn't know how to play either character, I guarantee you will be throw punishing them all day.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Yes Sentinel is BS too.
I'm not saying DOA5 is fine, I'm actually looking forward to what they are doing with the game seeing as there are a lot of new mechanics and changes to the system that will hopefully solidify the game overall.
My point is solely that being at EVO doesn't mean that a game is competitive and games like like MvC2 which had everyone playing the same three characters and had plenty of infinite's that technically broke the game were still had high tournament turnouts.
Yeah unfortunately there is a certain elitism with fighting games players where if someone calls something broken they are automatically a scrub. Goods tools are not broken, infinite's are, and there is nothing wrong with calling it.
Do we even know what they have done with him yet? All I've seen is his reveal and that's it.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
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Oh right I assumed they were fairly safe I'll admit I was wrong there then.
although Busa and Hayate are more unsafe since they're slower, Ayane and Kasumi still have the options of interrupting and whiff punishing (Ayane especially) Busa doesn't really have that option since everyone but the grapplers can out punch him even at disadvantage.
If anything the Ninjas are technically some of the worst characters in the game especially Hayabusa & Hayate and yet they're getting nerfed, people need to stop thinking that the Ninjas are automatically god tier because unless they're not haha
Oh right I assumed they were fairly safe I'll admit I was wrong there then.
although Busa and Hayate are more unsafe since they're slower, Ayane and Kasumi still have the options of interrupting and whiff punishing (Ayane especially) Busa doesn't really have that option since everyone but the grapplers can out punch him even at disadvantage.
If anything the Ninjas are technically some of the worst characters in the game especially Hayabusa & Hayate and yet they're getting nerfed, people need to stop thinking that the Ninjas are automatically god tier because unless they're not haha
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