Okay, seriously, how do I fight Kasumi/Ayane?

[Argentus]

Those two are my bane. I use Mila, and it seems like nothing works against them. Any possible action I can take in any situation, they are still like 3x faster than anything I can do so they always beat it out. Blocking? Can't stop blocking and switch to attacking because their attacks are too fast so they can hit me before my character can even finish releasing block. Doesn't help that if I ever get hit once then I just lose half my health from the other person juggling me.

That and I can't figure out how to get UP once I'm knocked down. Can't do wakeup kicks due to them just flipping over me constantly, ensuring that I'm always facing the wrong way when I get up. Can't do the takedown because they are always just continuing their combo even when I'm knocked down so my character is just rolling and stumbling around. Can't get up because they are always low attacking me, forcing me to get up when they want me to.

I mean, yeah I can try to counter them, but that's not enough, just being able to counter 1 out of a 100 attacking in like 10 seconds. They attack too fast for me to read what attack is coming, so counters aren't really an option.


Any advice would be great. I Freaking HATE how ninjas are so fast with literally NO drawbacks to balance their speed.

 

[David Gregg]

Who are your mains?

Edit: Sorry just read that you use Mila. Spacing is very important. Once you let them get close it's all downhill as (like you've already said) they beat you in speed. You sort of have to back up and then go "in for the kill" as they say. Also spend some time in training mode learning Kasumi and Ayane's moves. You will be able to read them better if you do this. For example when I see Ayane turn backwards with a decent amount of spacing between us, I usually expect her to perform (if the character was to the right of me) and so I would then perform Eliot's (his cartwheel) to punish her for it and still keep some distance between us.

A good thing with Mila is the guessing game of whether you're going to kick or fake them out and tackle them for a throw (gets me a lot). The more mind games you can play with your opponent the better. Her also covers a good distance and comes in really handy when Kasumi or Ayane are running at you.

And you know if all else fails and you feel like maybe you're limited with the character it doesn't hurt to experiment with other fighters.

 

[Argentus]

Who are your mains?

I use Mila.

 

[David Gregg]

I use Mila.

Also when you're down have you had any luck with (,, or)+ ? Usually it gets you out of the way before they can do anything to you.

And them flipping over you can be a good thing if you don't try and do a wake up kick as you can punish them for it as they're recovering. I usually quickly go for a throw.

 

[DR2K]

Which attacks do you use after blocking?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Who are your mains?

Edit: Sorry just read that you use Mila. Spacing is very important. Once you let them get close it's all downhill as (like you've already said) they beat you in speed. You sort of have to back up and then go "in for the kill" as they say. Also spend some time in training mode learning Kasumi and Ayane's moves. You will be able to read them better if you do this. For example when I see Ayane turn backwards with a decent amount of spacing between us, I usually expect her to perform (if the character was to the right of me) and so I would then perform Eliot's (his cartwheel) to punish her for it and still keep some distance between us.

A good thing with Mila is the guessing game of whether you're going to kick or fake them out and tackle them for a throw (gets me a lot). The more mind games you can play with your opponent the better. Her also covers a good distance and comes in really handy when Kasumi or Ayane are running at you.

And you know if all else fails and you feel like maybe you're limited with the character it doesn't hurt to experiment with other fighters.

This is incorrect about Ayane.

Argentus, Ayane is a character that greatly excels at mid-range combat as well as CQC (Close Quarters Combat). You need to be aware that Ayane at a distance is more dangerous than an Ayane in your face. Because she has great range pokes and keep away tools in her arsenal, she also boasts in having a nice array of track moves (Highs, mids and lows).

I'll give you the general breakdown about how majority of Ayane players play this character.

Up close, the go to moves players will be using are the following;

- PP (and strings, mainly PP6P stuff and PP6K2K)
- 4P
- 4K - Very good whiff punisher and as a ground bounce launcher, but that's all it's for. Most players use this as poke up close (which is stupid because it's 16 frames lol) but it's unsafe on block. Throw punish this on block.

- 6P stuff - Most players really don't understand how great her 6P really is, and will almost always opt for 6P free cancel into a BT H+P throw, a 6PP or 6PK and mash out of disadvantage. Throw punish 6PP with a 7 frame throw and throw punish 6PK with a 5 frame throw. There is no guessing involved there on block for either of those two string enders.

- 6K2K - Generally the go to string online, I'd never advise this to be used so much as it's so easily to punish and it has no mix up.

- 2H+K - High crush, but she has other high crushes that are so much better than this. It's a low sweep and is slow, and unsafe on block. Low throw punish this if you block it.

- 3PK - Terrible idea up close because 3P is 15 frames, that is not the ideal speed for a mid up close at all. And often times 3PK is being mashed out, low throw punish 3PK if you block it. But be aware that 3P has a mix up with 3PP, 3PK and the free cancel/delay.

3KK6 - 3K is a decent poke option and for stun, and extremely good for wall slams. However, I've hardly ever seen anyone online use it in this manner. Majority use 3KK6 as a close range poke (again, terrible to do because it's 15 frames) into the roll thinking it's a mix up. It's not a mix up, lol. If you see this and block it and they roll, just do a low jab to interrupt her.

- P > BT H+P - Ayane's infamous punch grab set up. It's legit, for sure, but majority always opt for this when they use her P cancels and hardly anything else.

- BT PP6KK4 - Very good blockstring, however, the options majority of Ayane players online tend to use are questionable. Most seem to opt for a BT2P or a BT4P, when Ayane has sooo many good options from this pressure.

- 1P - Good high crush because most online Ayane players use 1P for shenanigans (looking tick throw set ups mainly),

At a distance, majority of Ayane players use the following;

- 4H+K - This isn't a range poke at all, but players choose to use it as such anyway, especially over 3H+K (which is Ayane's best single poke at range). 4H+K is terrible as a range poke, throw punish this for free if you block it, the distance does not matter as long as you blocked it.

- 3PP - Ayane's Bread n Butter range poke, unsafe on block, 3PP has tracking so you cannot side step this.

- 66KK4 - This is not a range poke, you can easily high crush this move from it's second strike because it is a high. Almost "everyone" playing this character uses this move terribly because they use it as a range tool when it's not one.

Rolling into BT 6H+K/BT 6H+P -There is no real mix up in this, if you see an Ayane player rolling toward you from a distance with every intention of using either option, just toss out Eliot's cartwheel, 2H+KP or a good fast mid.

The one primary focus almost (I say almost because those that come to me for help become more aware of how to play this character) every online Ayane player has, is getting critical burst. Making this your primary focus is a very inconsistent way of playing Ayane because taking unnecessary risks to get damage is a very weak and linear way of playing Ayane. Going for her critical burst is fine, but making it your overall game plan is not.

So be aware that majority of online Ayane players will be trying to get critical burst either through a set attack pattern, or throw extremely random and unconstructive hit confirms (the random hit confirms will happen if you hold randomly).

Alot of online Ayane players also like to flip over you after a hard knockdown for shenanigans, and their followups usually lead into a BT6P for a back turn launch on you, or a BT2K low sweep. When you see players going for this setup, don't get up with a wake up, just stand up and block. They will do something, and you can just throw punish them from there.

Also be aware that players will usually turtle against you or "attempt" (HUGE emphasis on attempt) to outspace you well enough for whiff punishment. However, what I've noticed from a lot of online players is that, even though they are turtling, they seem to eventually make a mistake on their own by throwing out something very unsafe or attempting to come toward you through rolling or her BT 3KKK string.

The EASIEST way to break down players like this; run in toward them and block. Either inch your way in doing this or just simply run at them and block. Most players turtle hard but they lack real defense, and if you can run in on the player this way "successfully", then you'll know that they have no idea about how to play a solid keep away game.

This is basically how majority of Ayane players play this character online, sadly.

 

[Argentus]

Which attacks do you use after blocking?

Well, my usual "go to" attacks after blocking are the standard ppp string, or the "back kick to tackle" though sometimes it doesn't read that I pressed KICK, so it will just go straight into a grab lol. I also have started doing the back one two punch, seems a little faster than the standard string. Tried the backdown punch (The leg swipe) but too much windup on that.

Been trying different attacks, but so far, they beat out everything I've tried, simply due to superior speed.

This is incorrect about Ayane.

Argentus, Ayane is a character that greatly excels at mid-range combat as well as CQC (Close Quarters Combat). You need to be aware that Ayane at a distance is more dangerous than an Ayane in your face. Because she has great range pokes and keep away tools in her arsenal, she also boasts in having a nice array of track moves (Highs, mids and lows).

I'll give you the general breakdown about how majority of Ayane players play this character.

Up close, the go to moves players will be using are the following;

- PP (and strings, mainly PP6P stuff and PP6K2K)
- 4P
- 4K - Very good whiff punisher and as a ground bounce launcher, but that's all it's for. Most players use this as poke up close (which is stupid because it's 16 frames lol) but it's unsafe on block. Throw punish this on block.

- 6P stuff - Most players really don't understand how great her 6P really is, and will almost always opt for 6P free cancel into a BT H+P throw, a 6PP or 6PK and mash out of disadvantage. Throw punish 6PP with a 7 frame throw and throw punish 6PK with a 5 frame throw. There is no guessing involved there on block for either of those two string enders.

- 6K2K - Generally the go to string online, I'd never advise this to be used so much as it's so easily to punish and it has no mix up.

- 2H+K - High crush, but she has other high crushes that are so much better than this. It's a low sweep and is slow, and unsafe on block. Low throw punish this if you block it.

- 3PK - Terrible idea up close because 3P is 15 frames, that is not the ideal speed for a mid up close at all. And often times 3PK is being mashed out, low throw punish 3PK if you block it. But be aware that 3P has a mix up with 3PP, 3PK and the free cancel/delay.

3KK6 - 3K is a decent poke option and for stun, and extremely good for wall slams. However, I've hardly ever seen anyone online use it in this manner. Majority use 3KK6 as a close range poke (again, terrible to do because it's 15 frames) into the roll thinking it's a mix up. It's not a mix up, lol. If you see this and block it and they roll, just do a low jab to interrupt her.

- P > BT H+P - Ayane's infamous punch grab set up. It's legit, for sure, but majority always opt for this when they use her P cancels and hardly anything else.

- BT PP6KK4 - Very good blockstring, however, the options majority of Ayane players online tend to use are questionable. Most seem to opt for a BT2P or a BT4P, when Ayane has sooo many good options from this pressure.

- 1P - Good high crush because most online Ayane players use 1P for shenanigans (looking tick throw set ups mainly),

At a distance, majority of Ayane players use the following;

- 4H+K - This isn't a range poke at all, but players choose to use it as such anyway, especially over 3H+K (which is Ayane's best single poke at range). 4H+K is terrible as a range poke, throw punish this for free if you block it, the distance does not matter as long as you blocked it.

- 3PP - Ayane's Bread n Butter range poke, no tracking and follow ups have no tracking.

- 66KK4 - This is not a range poke, you can easily high crush this move from it's second strike because it is a high. Almost "everyone" playing this character uses this move terribly because they use it as a range tool when it's not one.

Rolling into BT 6H+K/BT 6H+P -There is no real mix up in this, if you see an Ayane player rolling toward you from a distance with every intention of using either option, just toss out Eliot's cartwheel, 2H+KP or a good fast mid.

The one primary focus almost (I say almost because those that come to me for help become more aware of how to play this character) every online Ayane player has, is getting critical burst. Making this your primary focus is a very inconsistent way of playing Ayane because taking unnecessary risks to get damage is a very weak and linear way of playing Ayane. Going for her critical burst is fine, but making it your overall game plan is not.

So be aware that majority of online Ayane players will be trying to get critical burst either through a set attack pattern, or throw extremely random and unconstructive hit confirms (the random hit confirms will happen if you hold randomly).

Alot of online Ayane players also like to flip over you after a hard knockdown for shenanigans, and their followups usually lead into a BT6P for a back turn launch on you, or a BT2K low sweep. When you see players going for this setup, don't get up with a wake up, just stand up and block. They will do something, and you can just throw punish them from there.

Also be aware that players will usually turtle against you or "attempt" (HUGE emphasis on attempt) to outspace you well enough for whiff punishment. However, what I've noticed from a lot of online players is that, even though they are turtling, they seem to eventually make a mistake on their own by throwing out something very unsafe or attempting to come toward you through rolling or her BT 3KKK string.

The EASIEST way to break down players like this; run in toward them and block. Either inch your way in doing this or just simply run at them and block. Most players turtle hard but they lack real defense, and if you can run in on the player this way "successfully", then you'll know that they have no idea about how to play a solid keep away game.

This is basically how majority of Ayane players play this character online, sadly.

Ayane seems slightly easier to deal with due to Mila's overhead heelkick knocking Ayane out of most of her maneuvers (like dealing with Helena or Brad)

And I'll try to keep the "Run and block" in mind next time I face an Ayane.

Still need to figure out what of her attacks are high and mid and what not. So hard to tell. Practicing with the characters myself in training doesn't really help, I don't remember it that way. I slowly learn what's what by fighting against them.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yes the heelkick will knock Ayane out of stance when she's being reckless or not paying attention. And whether you like it or not, you will need to use training mode to figure out what's what eventually. You can also learn what moves are by fighting other players, but it's a slower process because you don't have any real knowledge of said move(s) and you won't know what's punishable.

Turning on Move Details while in training mode will do wonders with time.

 

[ninjaguy446]

Snip

Wow.. this is beautiful. I never realized how many throw punishes I can get off of Ayane's moves. This helped me a lot even though it was meant for Argentus. Thank you.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

It's for everyone, really. Ayane is ridiculously unsafe on paper and in-game if the player doesn't understand how her safety works. Because she can be played very safely when she's being played correctly.

 

[DR2K]

This is incorrect about Ayane.

Argentus, Ayane is a character that greatly excels at mid-range combat as well as CQC (Close Quarters Combat). You need to be aware that Ayane at a distance is more dangerous than an Ayane in your face. Because she has great range pokes and keep away tools in her arsenal, she also boasts in having a nice array of track moves (Highs, mids and lows).

I'll give you the general breakdown about how majority of Ayane players play this character.

Up close, the go to moves players will be using are the following;

- PP (and strings, mainly PP6P stuff and PP6K2K)
- 4P
- 4K - Very good whiff punisher and as a ground bounce launcher, but that's all it's for. Most players use this as poke up close (which is stupid because it's 16 frames lol) but it's unsafe on block. Throw punish this on block.

- 6P stuff - Most players really don't understand how great her 6P really is, and will almost always opt for 6P free cancel into a BT H+P throw, a 6PP or 6PK and mash out of disadvantage. Throw punish 6PP with a 7 frame throw and throw punish 6PK with a 5 frame throw. There is no guessing involved there on block for either of those two string enders.

- 6K2K - Generally the go to string online, I'd never advise this to be used so much as it's so easily to punish and it has no mix up.

- 2H+K - High crush, but she has other high crushes that are so much better than this. It's a low sweep and is slow, and unsafe on block. Low throw punish this if you block it.

- 3PK - Terrible idea up close because 3P is 15 frames, that is not the ideal speed for a mid up close at all. And often times 3PK is being mashed out, low throw punish 3PK if you block it. But be aware that 3P has a mix up with 3PP, 3PK and the free cancel/delay.

3KK6 - 3K is a decent poke option and for stun, and extremely good for wall slams. However, I've hardly ever seen anyone online use it in this manner. Majority use 3KK6 as a close range poke (again, terrible to do because it's 15 frames) into the roll thinking it's a mix up. It's not a mix up, lol. If you see this and block it and they roll, just do a low jab to interrupt her.

- P > BT H+P - Ayane's infamous punch grab set up. It's legit, for sure, but majority always opt for this when they use her P cancels and hardly anything else.

- BT PP6KK4 - Very good blockstring, however, the options majority of Ayane players online tend to use are questionable. Most seem to opt for a BT2P or a BT4P, when Ayane has sooo many good options from this pressure.

- 1P - Good high crush because most online Ayane players use 1P for shenanigans (looking tick throw set ups mainly),

At a distance, majority of Ayane players use the following;

- 4H+K - This isn't a range poke at all, but players choose to use it as such anyway, especially over 3H+K (which is Ayane's best single poke at range). 4H+K is terrible as a range poke, throw punish this for free if you block it, the distance does not matter as long as you blocked it.

- 3PP - Ayane's Bread n Butter range poke, no tracking and follow ups have no tracking.

- 66KK4 - This is not a range poke, you can easily high crush this move from it's second strike because it is a high. Almost "everyone" playing this character uses this move terribly because they use it as a range tool when it's not one.

Rolling into BT 6H+K/BT 6H+P -There is no real mix up in this, if you see an Ayane player rolling toward you from a distance with every intention of using either option, just toss out Eliot's cartwheel, 2H+KP or a good fast mid.

The one primary focus almost (I say almost because those that come to me for help become more aware of how to play this character) every online Ayane player has, is getting critical burst. Making this your primary focus is a very inconsistent way of playing Ayane because taking unnecessary risks to get damage is a very weak and linear way of playing Ayane. Going for her critical burst is fine, but making it your overall game plan is not.

So be aware that majority of online Ayane players will be trying to get critical burst either through a set attack pattern, or throw extremely random and unconstructive hit confirms (the random hit confirms will happen if you hold randomly).

Alot of online Ayane players also like to flip over you after a hard knockdown for shenanigans, and their followups usually lead into a BT6P for a back turn launch on you, or a BT2K low sweep. When you see players going for this setup, don't get up with a wake up, just stand up and block. They will do something, and you can just throw punish them from there.

Also be aware that players will usually turtle against you or "attempt" (HUGE emphasis on attempt) to outspace you well enough for whiff punishment. However, what I've noticed from a lot of online players is that, even though they are turtling, they seem to eventually make a mistake on their own by throwing out something very unsafe or attempting to come toward you through rolling or her BT 3KKK string.

The EASIEST way to break down players like this; run in toward them and block. Either inch your way in doing this or just simply run at them and block. Most players turtle hard but they lack real defense, and if you can run in on the player this way "successfully", then you'll know that they have no idea about how to play a solid keep away game.

This is basically how majority of Ayane players play this character online, sadly.

Mila has one of the best if not the best mid range tool in the game though, I believe the input it 4 F+K. It's not like she's fighting an up hill battle at mid distance.

 

[bingsoo]

Mila's 4H+K is side-stepable like most of her range tools. You can hold out of the stun and it's -7 on block, even though the push back makes it safe. It's good, but it's far from being the best mid range poke in the game. Ayane has ranged tracking pokes from both stances that are neutral on block or push back enough to prevent throw punishment. 3H+K guarantees like 70 points of damage on hit. And a major reason why she's so hard to deal with from range is her integrated movement and evasiveness.

In my humble opinion, Mila is very much fighting an uphill battle from mid range against the best zoning character in the game.

 

[Brute]

If you feel unsafe playing Ayane you're doing something wrong. Terribly, terribly wrong.

 

[Argentus]

If you feel unsafe playing Ayane you're doing something wrong. Terribly, terribly wrong.

How constructive.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Mila's 4H+K is side-stepable like most of her range tools. You can hold out of the stun and it's -7 on block, even though the push back makes it safe. It's good, but it's far from being the best mid range poke in the game. Ayane has ranged tracking pokes from both stances that are neutral on block or push back enough to prevent throw punishment. 3H+K guarantees like 70 points of damage on hit. And a major reason why she's so hard to deal with from range is her integrated movement and evasiveness.

In my humble opinion, Mila is very much fighting an uphill battle from mid range against the best zoning character in the game.

I actually didn't realize DR2K even replied after me, thanks Bingsoo. You pretty much summed it up, lol.

 

[Yaguar]

Read lows, hit 3H+K.
2 characters that Mila will miss a lot of high's against, it sucks but its what you have to deal with when playing her.

3K, 4K, 2P, 1P, 1P+K, 6P.
Remember you only need to land 1 hit to start looping pressure on to them.

Read lows, hit 3H+K.
Saying this again because of how important it is. Don't forget that on block it is -4 so you're fine.

You'll have to check with an Ayane player but I don't think she has much that puts her safely into BT when blocked. So block and go for 3K / 6P / 3P. Set yourself up a stun and roll from there.

I finally worked out how to deal with Sarah as Mila a couple of days ago but that is a story for another time. Well not 100% since I'm just on the damn edge of winning every time.

 

[Argentus]

Read lows, hit 3H+K.
2 characters that Mila will miss a lot of high's against, it sucks but its what you have to deal with when playing her.

3K, 4K, 2P, 1P, 1P+K, 6P.
Remember you only need to land 1 hit to start looping pressure on to them.

Read lows, hit 3H+K.
Saying this again because of how important it is. Don't forget that on block it is -4 so you're fine.

You'll have to check with an Ayane player but I don't think she has much that puts her safely into BT when blocked. So block and go for 3K / 6P / 3P. Set yourself up a stun and roll from there.

I finally worked out how to deal with Sarah as Mila a couple of days ago but that is a story for another time. Well not 100% since I'm just on the damn edge of winning every time.

Sarah is also bad, but most of the time I can counter her kicks.

But um..what do the numbers mean? (3k, 4k, 2p, 1p)?

 

[StrikerSashi]

Those are the directions. 5 is neutral, 6 is forward, 8 is up, 2 is down, 4 is back. Look at your numpad.

 

[bingsoo]

You'll have to check with an Ayane player but I don't think she has much that puts her safely into BT when blocked. So block and go for 3K / 6P / 3P. Set yourself up a stun and roll from there.

P, 6P, 3H+K, K all put Ayane into BT safely since they all have followups or are neutral on block. You'll have to be careful when she does transition into BT from these moves because she can obviously free cancel into 8P, which would cause most of Mila's close range options to whiff.

 

[Tenryuga]

You've heard about Ayane. I shall tell you about Kasumi. If Kasumi gets in range pay attention to her attack patterns. If she is committed to pokes then you can sidestep her assault with little worry if you are wary of 6PK 6P2K P6P/ P6PP PP2K and PPK. If she is using tracking moves those are unsafe; So you can block and punish or strike to start your own offense. Watch for when you block her mids in particular. Good Kasumi players that don't mash will usually either stop the string right there and block, free cancel into something else or attempt to catch you with a delay (Like PP6P...K PPP....P). The only strings she will finish are PPPP, PP6PK, PP2K, 3PP, and 6PK, 6P2K. Everything else is massively unsafe to use on block or easy to react to.

If she is free cancelling after her mids and trying to throw out additional string based pressure punish her by interupting with quick pokes (P, 6P, 6K) or crushes. I don't know how fast Milas takedown is but Kasumi is always at disadvantage on guard. Her pressure comes from making you respect her strings and delays and not frame advantage. So tossing out TD at some points after blocking moves may land you a hi-counter takedown.

Mid range 4H+K and 4K are nice tools mila has to keep Kasumi at bay. Always remember that Kasumi is no threat to you at footsie ranges. She only has 4P and 3K in those situations. Anything else is unsafe. 66K is throw punishable on block and 66KK is 28 or so frames and has no delay. You can hold that on reaction; don't let anyone tell you there is some kind of mindgame to this move. If there is it only exists online. Learn the timing of the gap between Kasumi's 66K and 66KK so you can be consistent at punishing 66K and holding 66KK.

66P is another move she will use to get in. If you block it you have nothing to worry about because 66PP is a garbage guard break. It is a high, so the moment you see you block 66P your options are: 1. Duck 66PP and throw punish. 2. 2P after blocking 66P. Do not let her get away with free canceling and doing string based pressure after 66P. That should not ever happen. If you do get caught by the guard break and she teleports just use a sidestep attack. Her oboro throw from teleport is too slow to track SS. If you see her hoshinpo dash just duck or 2P. Players will either come at you with the high or throw. No smart Kasumi player is doing the knee because it is unsafe and the reward for it landing is VERY small compared to what the opponent can get for blocking and punishing it.

I would not use 3H+K to space Kasumi out. Reason being is if it is blocked you just did her job for her by putting yourself in her ideal range. 3H+K should be used to punish misuse of Kasumi's ranged tools in footsie / spacing situations and not a move you toss out and hope to hit her with. This is all I have for you with my limited knowledge of Mila. I'm still learning more about Kasumi myself so I'd appreciate it if any other Kasumi players chimed in.