3-Point Hold v. 4-Point Hold

[DrDogg]

DOA3 sold 1.2 million copies. That makes it the highest selling game in the DOA series, above DOA4 which sold 1 million copies.

The majority of fighting games that have sold 2 million+ copies have been exclusive to one system. The reason why DOA3 didn't sell more copies is because it simply was not a ground breaking game. It was just a tweaked version of DOA2 with far fewer bells and whistles.

The primary reason DOA3 didn't sell more is because it was an Xbox launch title. The user base was incredibly low when DOA3 released, which actually makes it pretty impressive that it sold as much as it did.

I would just like to say I've seen more people play SC because of the customization, than to actually play the game as a fighter, so it wouldn't matter if the game had holds in stun or not.

That's because SC has one of the best create-a-fighters available in a 3D fighter. Doesn't take away from it's competitive value, all that means is you need more friends in the competitive scene. I don't know anyone who plays SC solely for the customization. In fact, everyone I know who plays the game pretty much ignores the customization, including myself.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

That's not true, it resets when you hold. You're getting the CH from attacking them when they're stunned. You can hold forever..

(EDITED)
oh my God ...
seriously ...
PLEASE TRY THIS BEFORE YOU SAY ITS TRUE OR NOT

senario 1 from neutral: player 2 HOLDs ,player 1 punishes with PP = NO STUN (you can do this forever)

senario 2: player 1 STUNS, player 2 holds, player 1 punishes with PP = STUN CONTINUES ... if attempted again, the STUN carries on till eventually reaching critical threshold. (you CANNOT do this forever) (the stun count remains the same as before the hold .. meaning at one point in critical threshold if you dont lauch .. even if player 2 does a hold, they would get knocked down from a wrong read .. ) .. so you have to be aware of your critical threshold at all times ..

so after a stun ... if you attempt a hold at the last few frames of stun .. you are acctually PROLONGING your stun time .. with the time of the HOLD itself ... which makes the hold itself a much higher risk .. (interestingly during HOLD animation you are still considered standing on your feet and therefore still vulnerable to a throw .. despite the CRITICAL COUNT carrying on in the duration of the hold)

sorry for the rage ..
but I know what I'm talking about ..

and you guys keep saying you play the game and what not ... and some people keep saying I dont know what im talking about ...etc ... have you guys even bothered to test the system before jumping into assumptions !? stop basing your hate on the old games ... DOA5 is a drastic improvement!

hopefully once I'm done with my little project some minor things like this (although I think this is major) will be alot clearer with the vids ... the only reason its taking a bit of time is that I'm doing it on my own ... (a friend volunteered to help out over the weekend .. so hopefully I'll be able get these vids out soon if all goes well.. )

 

[Matt Ponton]

It's the same system that's been in since doa++.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

It's the same system that's been in since doa++.

I thought it was but wasnt too sure to be honest...

Then why do they keep saying you're out of stun when youre clearly not till the end of the hold recovery?

Even if u hold and get back on your feet you are still considered in stun ... Thats what ive been trying to say..

 

[Matt Ponton]

I know. Others are mistaken. What you are describing has been in since doa++.

 

[Berzerk!]

Keep at it, Emperor_Cow. It may take a little time to fully solidify your method of communication but if you're testing and reporting findings that will always have value. Many of us are running on old assumptions.

 

[Awesmic]

That's a relief... for a while there I thought Emperor Cow was gonna bite the big one. Talk about suspense.

What will happen in the next episode?

 

[x Sypher x]

That's a relief... for a while there I thought Emperor Cow was gonna bite the big one. Talk about suspense.

What will happen in the next episode?

I guess you like to play Devil's Advocate occasionally? Lol

 

[Awesmic]

I guess you like to play Devil's Advocate occasionally? Lol

No. I don't have the skill.

Besides, the discussion really is getting that interesting. Emperor Cow is confident enough to pull the video presentation card, hence why I said the next episode.

If all goes well, he gets my vote to be in the next podcast. He's earned it for sticking this discussion out as long as he has.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

No. I don't have the skill.

Besides, the discussion really is getting that interesting. Emperor Cow is confident enough to pull the video presentation card, hence why I said the next episode.

If all goes well, he gets my vote to be in the next podcast. He's earned it for sticking this discussion out as long as he has.

you guys have podcasts ?! id like to have a listen .. where do i find them ?

on the other hand i would like to focus on the vids im doing ... (being married and working .. plus doing them alone .. are a bit slowing me down but hopefully ill get there .. ) .. I just hope that by the end of this project everyone (including myself) can benifit ...

 

[Awesmic]

you guys have podcasts ?! id like to have a listen .. where do i find them ?

on the other hand i would like to focus on the vids im doing ... (being married and working .. plus doing them alone .. are a bit slowing me down but hopefully ill get there .. ) .. I just hope that by the end of this project everyone (including myself) can benifit ...

http://freestepdodge.com/threads/the-freestepdodge-podcast.281/

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

http://freestepdodge.com/threads/the-freestepdodge-podcast.281/

thx .. will be looking forward to listening to these on the train ..

 

[Rikuto]

It's not strictly 50/50 because of the height system. If you're talking purely about countering out of stun versus a strike, it's 33% or 25% in a 4-point system (another reason to support that, 25% is a good balance, combined with the qualitative reasons around mid strikes being important).
Yes, low holds evade high strikes which skews it, but that takes us back to the importance of mid strikes and mixing them up in a 4 point system.

If one of the strikes was a launcher or a wall hit, holds are out of the equation completely.

But it's not just strikes - throws are also available to punish counters. The only reason to argue that the defender gets an advantage here is if the recovery is way too fast, and that's not a reasonable argument in DOA5.

It's a 50/50 unless you're purposely playing wrong. I've already posted how and why in heavy detail about six times now this week and I'm not going to do it again. People like you and Emperor are refusing to acknowledge it. Just what the hell am I supposed to do about that? I'm not going to have a debate where I show someone the world is round, give them photographic evidence of it, and even offer to take them up in a shuttle ride to show them but they continue to scoff at me and claim the world is flat.

Comes a time when people have to take responsibility for their own education about this game.

 

[Baron West]

The primary reason DOA3 didn't sell more is because it was an Xbox launch title. The user base was incredibly low when DOA3 released, which actually makes it pretty impressive that it sold as much as it did.

Anytime a game sells over a million copies it's very impressive. DOA3 is somewhere between the 23rd and the 26th in terms of the highest selling console fighting games of all time. That having been said, I don't think it's being a launch title held it back as much as you suggest.

Even with the relatively low sales figures that the X-Box had on launch, Halo managed to sell 5 million copies despite being a launch title. It was simply a great game.

The Sega Saturn had less than half (closer to a 3rd) of the user base of the X-Box and Virtua Fighter 2 still managed to sell over 2 million copies.

DOA3 outsold the X-Box version of Soul Calibur II despite their having been a larger user base on the X-Box when SCII was released. You can attribute this to the fact that SCII was available on 2 other systems, despite the X-Box version being the best of the three.

Tekken Tag Tournament was also a launch title and it sold over 2 million copies. You can attribute that to the PS2 having a higher player base, and the fact that the game had an arcade counterpart. However when you look at DOA2HC, it was also a launch title with an arcade counterpart, and it enjoyed nowhere near that level of success.

DOA2HC was still a commercial success, but it wasn't as solid as TTT overall. DOA3 being console exclusive, and a launch title likely did reduce it's sales, but not to the tune of a million copies. If it was a better game overall, it would have sold more.

 

[Matt Ponton]

It sold enough to get a platinum hits release with a sexier cover art but still without the sexier game updates available everywhere else in the world.

 

[Baron West]

It sold enough to get a platinum hits release with a sexier cover art but still without the sexier game updates available everywhere else in the world.

It sold plenty. It's in the top 30 best selling console fighting games of all time.

It sucks that you have to go through hell and high water to get a booster disk that only has extra costumes.

 

[Matt Ponton]

That booster disc is available after unlocking everything in DOA2U as well.

And yes, I'm aware it sold plenty. Last I saw, it was 3.5 million worldwide in sales for its lifetime sales.

 

[Baron West]

That booster disc is available after unlocking everything in DOA2U as well.

And yes, I'm aware it sold plenty. Last I saw, it was 3.5 million worldwide in sales for its lifetime sales.

Where did you see that? Those numbers seem much too high.

 

[DR2K]

Technically DOA5 has a 5-point hold system. With mids being split up into weak mid, strong mid punch, strong mid kick. Which works out better for both the 3-point and 4-point camps. While new players can get lucky with a mid counter, better players are going to find combos and set ups for the more damaging advanced mid counters.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Where did you see that? Those numbers seem much too high.

G4 Icons tv show about Team NINJA, it makes sense as it was over 1 million (requirement to be a Platinum Hits game in the States), plus the sales OF the Platinum Hits version afterwards, plus the sales from Europe which also were around the 1 million mark, plus the sales of Japan and the rest of asia/australia which I could see being in the couple #00,000s.