Lets be serious here Alpha-152 needs to be banned.

[Vincent Rayne]

This does not apply to a character who has the best of everything. She has speed, high damage from juggles and throws, some of the best string manipulation in the game, a low throw that's 3 frames and does insane damage. She has everything. She's faster than most strikers, does more damage than most strikers, has damaging throws equal to that of a grappler and her guard breaks are actually + on block compared to several guard breaks for grapplers that are negative on block. Lack of wake up kicks is not exactly a negative here considering most people tech immediately to avoid FT setups anyways. Counters doing zero damage isn't really a negative either given that it resets the position with the potential of putting the opponent against the wall.

Also, again, your post like everyone else does nothing to really counter argue why she should not be banned. None of you are giving technical reasons as to why she should not be banned. None of you are quoting the technical reasons given on why she should be banned and making counter arguments to those reasons given. Instead all of you are just telling people to shut up without giving any logical input. Banning a character is serious, and the people trying to defend this character are not taking this seriously at all. That or all of you are well aware of how strong she is and truly do not have any counter argument to put in, thus the personal attacks to the players themselves.

damn. that must be why she wins so many damn tourname--oh wait. >_>


these aren't any reasons why she should be banned. and it's not anyone's job to try and state why she shouldn't. this thread is a reason why she needs to be banned not why she shouldn't because as of right now she's not so there's no reason to waste energy defending her. all i hear are excuses at why they think she's op. she has balancing factors. this game is fine without trying to "ban" anyone. if you can't figure out her strings then go to the lab. people banning out characters for stupid reasons are just looking for an excuse not to put the required effort into the game that is needed to get better. if you lose it isn't because the character is op. it's because you failed to do something right. get it, understand it, and learn from it.

 

[Brute]

damn. that must be why she wins so many damn tourname--oh wait. >_>

Oh, not this argument again...

 

[Raansu]

damn. that must be why she wins so many damn tourname--oh wait. >_>


these aren't any reasons why she should be banned. and it's not anyone's job to try and state why she shouldn't. this thread is a reason why she needs to be banned not why she shouldn't because as of right now she's not so there's no reason to waste energy defending her. all i hear are excuses at why they think she's op. she has balancing factors. this game is fine without trying to "ban" anyone. if you can't figure out her strings then go to the lab. people banning out characters for stupid reasons are just looking for an excuse not to put the required effort into the game that is needed to get better. if you lose it isn't because the character is op. it's because you failed to do something right. get it, understand it, and learn from it.

If the reasons are stupid then why are you incapable of giving a proper counter argument? All I see in this entire post of yours is dancing around the issue at hand. Do you have a counter argument or not? If you do not give a proper counter argument then the chances of this character being banned is only going to increase.

 

[Crext]

If the reasons are stupid then why are you incapable of giving a proper counter argument? All I see in this entire post of yours is dancing around the issue at hand. Do you have a counter argument or not? If you do not give a proper counter argument then the chances of this character being banned is only going to increase.

That is not the way it works in the western world. One are innocent until proven guilty, and as it stands right now there is no proof that alpha 152 is overpowered in DoA5U because the game isn't out yet.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

If the reasons are stupid then why are you incapable of giving a proper counter argument? All I see in this entire post of yours is dancing around the issue at hand. Do you have a counter argument or not? If you do not give a proper counter argument then the chances of this character being banned is only going to increase.

lol. dude. i doubt my opinion is valued so highly that what i say would effect whether she's banned or not. and i have addressed and given a decent answer. i'm also part of the soul calibur community and remember the discussion on characters being banned in SC4 and SC5. it's understandable why characters were banned in those games because they had features that hindered on being broken. (i.e. infinites) in france there's a character banned in SC5 because they have a feature that no other character has. actually they have close to one feature a character from SC4 got banned for. so i know what to look for when it comes to whether a character is "ban-worthy" or not. i don't play alpha nor do i even have enough titles to unlock her outside of versus mode but i have played her many times and not once have i felt that i lost because she is OP. she lacks wakeup kicks which is a BIGGIE in DOA. she has only one special wakeup kick which can easily be baited out and then punished accordingly. her lack of counter holds. if she's stunned then you don't have to worry about being countered and hurt for it. unless you are doing some long string or going into a stance just when Alpha teleports, then you can probably stop whatever your doing and turn around. yeah she can do about a quarter of health in a combo but that's mainly only if you repeated try to counter hold and have failed every time. but then again any character can do the same thing. Ryu's insuna drop off of a counter grab does insane damage as well some other multi part grabs that the opponent can't get out of.

i still see no reason alpha should be banned. but haters gonna hate i guess.

 

[Zeo]

So basically what needs to happen here, since everyone's giving the "I haven't had any trouble with her" arguement is a high level player needs to pick up Alpha and start dominating. In about a week I bet everybody here will change their tune about her once they see what she's capable of played to her fullest potential.

Take Master, great player, amazing reflexes, great clutch, an all around top player. On top of that he's playing Hayabusa, a character that is deemed not to be too great in this game, decent damage but hard to get in, only a few tools to apply pressure and has a lot of gimmicks that must be relied upon. Despite that he STILL places consistently in tourneys with a mediocre/mid tier character because he's that good of a player and can bring out Hayabusa's full potential.

...Now take him and everything into account Rikuto and everyone here has said about Alpha's tools and compare them to Hayabusa's. Now switch his character from Hayabusa to Alpha and take him to a tournament.

....Think about that.

 

[Raansu]

So...basically neither of you have any actual counter arguments, got it. Next.

(Not applied to Zeo who's post was not there when I hit enter lol.)

 

[Crext]

So...basically neither of you have any actual counter arguments, got it. Next.

It is the strongest counter argument in the book, sir.

Is she overpowered? No evidence.
Is she ok/underpowered? No evidence.

That is how it stands. Your "case" is as weak as the opposition. No better and no worse.
Based on this way of thinking you could very well end up banning everything.

That said you fear her "potential" to be overpowered in the period the money pools are the greatest, I get it. This has nothing to do with the actual game, but simply comes down to risk mitigation from your part. "We should remove her because she is (apparently) the greatest risk of an unbalanced element in the game, then if proven innocent we lift the ban when the prize money is less".

Or am I wrong?

 

[Vincent Rayne]

It is the strongest counter argument in the book, sir.

Is she overpowered? No evidence.
Is she ok/underpowered? No evidence.

That is how it stands. Your "case" is as weak as the opposition. No better and no worse.
Based on this way of thinking you could very well end up banning everything.

That said you fear her "potential" to be overpowered in the period the money pools are the greatest, I get it. This has nothing to do with the actual game, but simply comes down to risk mitigation from your part. "We should remove her because she is (apparently) the greatest risk of an unbalanced element in the game, then if proven innocent we lift the ban when the prize money is less".

Or am I wrong?

you should have said , "Next" at the end of your post.

 

[Raansu]

It is the strongest counter argument in the book, sir.

Is she overpowered? No evidence.
Is she ok/underpowered? No evidence.

That is how it stands. Your "case" is as weak as the opposition. No better and no worse.
Based on this way of thinking you could very well end up banning everything.

That said you fear her "potential" to be overpowered in the period the money pools are the greatest, I get it. This has nothing to do with the actual game, but simply comes down to risk mitigation from your part. "We should remove her because she is (apparently) the greatest risk of an unbalanced element in the game, then if proven innocent we lift the ban when the prize money is less".

Or am I wrong?

Has nothing to do with any prize money. She should of been banned months ago, and there has been more than enough technical evidence posted in this thread to prove as such. As far as 5U goes, top players have played the game, they've seen the new Alpha and she has received buffs that she didn't need while everything else has more or less remained unchanged.

This type of post again is doing nothing but proving my point. None of you are giving any examples from the characters mechanics to counter what has been said. None of you have any counter argument at all so you simply attack players wanting her banned because case in point, you have no counter argument.

So I'm going to say yes, you are 100% wrong. Your posts have zero logic to them and are filled with nothing but ignorance and anger.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Bass has soo many , ask how many of his are safe.

All of them.

 

[Crext]

Has nothing to do with any prize money. She should of been banned months ago, and there has been more than enough technical evidence posted in this thread to prove as such. As far as 5U goes, top players have played the game, they've seen the new Alpha and she has received buffs that she didn't need while everything else has more or less remained unchanged.

This type of post again is doing nothing but proving my point. None of you are giving any examples from the characters mechanics to counter what has been said. None of you have any counter argument at all so you simply attack players wanting her banned because case in point, you have no counter argument.

So I'm going to say yes, you are 100% wrong. Your posts have zero logic to them and are filled with nothing but ignorance and anger.

How are you supposed to prove it either way if you don't have the product in hand?
We are talking 5U, it never has been about Vanilla.

"Top players" was contacted by Emper0r C0w a couple of pages back and said:

I spoke with Shimbori..

Alpha lost a lot of frame advantage it seems .. (advantage from 6KP got nerfed as well)

She got a damage nerf...

also it seems 3H parry got nerfed ..

Float may have been buffed, but from certain setups may be useless due to being extremely close (all float options whiff vs. close crouching it seems..)
so if in stun and alpha is floating next to you, a low hold may solve everything ? I'm just speculating now...

He also urges everyone to wait till the game is out before jumping to conclusions and any bans.

He also said,
when the game is out ... Please complain as much as you can and point out as many flaws as possible. This will help him and the team improve the game and make it far more solid.

Which "some" disregarded completely as "unreliable" and "not believable".

We are all ignorant, and we will continue to be so until we get to see it for ourselves.

 

[Zeo]

I love how my previous post was completely and blatantly ignored.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

okay. i've come to the conclusion that WHY!? will not see any points. to be blatant he has no points either going by his own logic. so it's a waste of space and time to even reply to his post anymore since he obviously skims post and then seeks out an individual sentence or phrase them makes another ignorant comment on it. now i can see how this convo is dead. we got people like WHY!? that are tunnel visioned and come in this thread with a completely one-sided closed mind. those kind of people make these threads just...ugh.

 

[Crext]

okay. i've come to the conclusion that WHY!? will not see any points. to be blatant he has no points either going by his own logic. so it's a waste of space and time to even reply to his post anymore since he obviously skims post and then seeks out an individual sentence or phrase them makes another ignorant comment on it. now i can see how this convo is dead. we got people like WHY!? that are tunnel visioned and come in this thread with a completely one-sided closed mind. those kind of people make these threads just...ugh.

Hey now, don't go for the person.

I love how my previous post was completely and blatantly ignored.

Problem is that you assume that you are correct about her being overpowered from the get go, so you remove yourself from the debate space (and you also use 1.03 as a basis). IF she truly is OP, then maybe that would be the case. However we don't know this, and have no way of knowing this before 5U is out for the public to see.

 

[Vincent Rayne]

"Guys. Why don't we hold off on this conversation until next week that way we have something solid to lay any and all claims on."


guys. i think Crext and Kokoro has it right. this debate is pointless until the game is actually out.

 

[Raansu]

okay. i've come to the conclusion that WHY!? will not see any points. to be blatant he has no points either going by his own logic. so it's a waste of space and time to even reply to his post anymore since he obviously skims post and then seeks out an individual sentence or phrase them makes another ignorant comment on it. now i can see how this convo is dead. we got people like WHY!? that are tunnel visioned and come in this thread with a completely one-sided closed mind. those kind of people make these threads just...ugh.

I'm not tunnel visioning at all. All I or anyone else here is asking for is a simple proper counter argument, one of which neither you or Crext have been able to give and for the most part have done nothing but personal attacks.

 

[werewolfgold]

So basically what needs to happen here, since everyone's giving the "I haven't had any trouble with her" arguement is a high level player needs to pick up Alpha and start dominating. In about a week I bet everybody here will change their tune about her once they see what she's capable of played to her fullest potential.

Well..., I mean, yah. That's what needs to happen. Wouldn't the burden of proof be absolutely met then? Right now, everyone has a bunch of theory text and 2 youtube matches vs. Alpha (using characters that they didn't know how to use that well) to try to determine if she needs to be banned. Regardless of if the text and such is 100% accurate, you're not going to get a larger consensus unless people can see time and time again that no one has an answer for Alpha's shenanigans at high level play. Since, as stated before, Alpha isn't very commonly seen, people are perhaps being asked to take a leap of faith.

Right now, this is equivalent to people saying "just take my word for it". Not that anyone's lying, but you get my point, right?

 

[Vincent Rayne]

I'm not tunnel visioning at all. All I or anyone else here is asking for is a simple proper counter argument, one of which neither you or Crext have been able to give and for the most part have done nothing but personal attacks.

but we came up with counter arguments. but you blatantly ignore them. so all-in-all we are wasting time running blind in a dark room with the handle missing from the exit door.

(take your time with that metaphor.)

 

[Crext]

I'm not tunnel visioning at all. All I or anyone else here is asking for is a simple proper counter argument, one of which neither you or Crext have been able to give and for the most part have done nothing but personal attacks.

You've been given counter arguments both on basic case, and on mechanics.

Let us go through it once more:

Basic case:
-You got no evidence or proof to support your claims (5U is not out yet).

Mechanics (speculative):
-Alpha lost a lot of frame advantage
(advantage from 6KP got nerfed as well)
-She got a damage nerf...
-3H parry got nerfed ..
-Certain setups may be useless due to being extremely close
(all float options whiff vs. close crouching)

Either way the mechanics arguments are invalid, because of the basic case argument. Reason for this is that we have no way of knowing them in detail, or how they work in the system (because 5U is not out yet).