Hayabusa Wishlist

[Brute]

Alright, well with both DOA5 vanilla and DOA5U, Hayabusa has got some great new stuff, and lost a lot of good stuff. Some things are awesome, some things not so much. It seems like TN is not planning to release any serious gameplay/balance patches now for 5U (a shame, Rachel...), but it is possible and obviously at some point down the line we all hope there will be another DOA game and hopefully we can see Ryu in peak shape.

I've compiled a list of changes I'd like to see made for Ryu, using his DOA5U day one patch as a base. Some of you may feel this would make him overpowered (I certainly don't) and others may feel that some of my proposed nerfs are excessive. I tried to balance these buffs and nerfs as best I could to cut everything he absolutely does not need in order to reinforce his best tools. Ultimately, my goal was to return him into a mid-speed pressure character with good guard-breaks and mix-up to force the opponent into doing something unwise (a hold into a HiC Izuna, perhaps?).

So obviously all these changes realistically would never be made. The universe doesn't love me that much. But, maybe TN or the Hayabusa community will see some stuff here they like and pass along word. Yes, I recognize that 5U just came out and we don't know the full extent of his game yet. Some of these changes may be premature. I realize that, and if someone feels they are, I'd love you to tell me why. In general, I'd just like to get some feedback on this, because I've been going over these in my head for a while and I think this would make a really fair, solid, strong Hayabusa that all Ryu players would love and his opponents would respect. So, let me know.


Buffs
/ Neutral on NH
+15 sit-down stun on CH (also, fix the crush properties on this move FFS)
Crushes mids again during certain frames like DOA4 and Momiji's version
Returned to +6 on block
No longer enters ongyoin stance unless 4 is held (DOA4 status)
ONGYOIN Techs under highs in idle frames and during cancel

Nerfs
5 less stun frames on CH. It's still a huge stun. The extra frames aren't needed
Final hits no longer a natural combo. Very useful and hard hit, but other changes would give him better baits and CB options to account for this.
-2 on block. He overall has a lot more frame advantage with his other moves.
ONGYOIN i17, 38 damage. Still a very useful whiff punish, especially from 7P
/ / / / Recovery frames increased to prevent extensive juggling from canceled Izunas. Not much of a hit with Izuna damage being returned to 80 anyway.
ONGYOIN Parries mids only

New Moves
/ Hit throw that leads into his expert mid kick hold on NH (gimped damage)
/ Returning move from DOA4. Nice gap-closing tool outside ongyoin
/ Can transition into handstand again like in DOA4
/ DOA5 vanilla version but only +2 GB on block
ONGYOIN Similar to 6KP. Jumping mid punch with +7 on block and bounce on NH. Low/mid crush
DOA5 vanilla version. +2 GB on block.

Cut moves
/ ONGYOIN No one will miss this
Replaced. See "New Moves"
/ / Replaced. See "New Moves"
ONGYOIN Replaced. See "New Moves"
ONGYOIN Best on WUs, but he has plenty of other anti-WU tools. This is not needed
With the added pressure of 4PK back in as an i15 mid track punch, I don't feel this is necessary
WR 236K Will fill this role nicely. Doesn't feel necessary beyond the bound state.

 

[SilverForte]

I would like it if his pokes were returned to the way they were in doa4/d. 6p safe, + on nh, 4p2p, etc.

And 236K, I just never used it, it felt pretty useless to me.

 

[Jin Masters]

I would love:

1k critical hit back
3p+k, k a true block string
8k 12 frames again
66t an offensive hold again... He is a grappler that low IZUNA throw is meh...
2k high crush
7p no auto ongyoin, hold back like the rest of his transitions

 

[Brute]

I would like it if his pokes were returned to the way they were in doa4/d. 6p safe, + on nh, 4p2p, etc

So do I. But realistically that would never happen. TN does not feel he should have excellent strikes with his throw/hold power. I'm willing to compromise with decent strikes. Better than his current state.

And 236K, I just never used it, it felt pretty useless to me.

Well, it was faster and safer than his new "surprise" gap-closing kick. Lacked the bound state I s'pose.

66t an offensive hold again... He is a grappler that low IZUNA throw is meh...

The low throw Izuna is excellent.

2k high crush

Forgot to include that.

7p no auto ongyoin, hold back like the rest of his transitions

Remembered to include that.

 

[Nameless Sama]

All I want is unmasked Haybusa Outfit ( classic )
I want this old handstandkick skills back.

 

[GodlyHades]

I would love better options to escape pressure like the other characters. When forced into a corner he can be easily countered and he doesn't have enough fast attacks against players like: Kasumi, Pai, Christie, and anyone else who he would usually struggle with.

I find it a huge pain to fight Helena especially with Ryu since most of the attacks he can use against her are lows and they counter-advtange him.
I haven't played other verision of Ryu so I can't really compare him but I think he's alright. Vanilla was defintely better though.

 

[Jaguar360]

I just want a tad more speed and some more mix-ups. I don't have the game quite yet, but from what I've seen and read, these two really need to be here (Ryu's also really unsafe, but he's gotta have some flaws and a speed boost would make up for it).

 

[AkaShocka]

Hm, Well. Characters like Helena, Lisa, Pai, Jann Lee, Ayane Etc etc, have two CBs because they have multiple stances. Sooooooo..... What if Ryu had another CB that's in his ongyoin? I'm asking a question and probably making a new idea(seriously doubt it). I know Christie has another stance but she is already a headache so she really doesn't need a second CB.

 

[Brute]

He gets enough CB mixup with a standing Izuna and low throw Izuna for baits. After you get that deep of a stun, Hayabusa's already in an excellent position. He doesn't need much buffs there. Where he really struggles is getting to that point.

 

[AkaShocka]

But it

He gets enough CB mixup with a standing Izuna and low throw Izuna for baits. After you get that deep of a stun, Hayabusa's already in an excellent position. He doesn't need much buffs there. Where he really struggles is getting to that point.

would be a great idea though, right? Because how Ayane and Lisa have a CB that's a mid punch and mid kick, It would be more difficult to fight Hayabusa if he had a mid kick CB from the stance thing. Right? Come on back me up here lol.

 

[Brute]

But it would be a great idea though, right? Because how Ayane and Lisa have a CB that's a mid punch and mid kick, It would be more difficult to fight Hayabusa if he had a mid kick CB from the stance thing. Right? Come on back me up here lol.

Like I said, he's already in a great position at that point. Giving him that sort of mix-up wouldn't really re-locate him anywhere on a tier list or give him many victories he otherwise wouldn't have. Without an effective means of getting him to that point, he's still going to be working much harder than a lot of the roster.

 

[TakedaZX]

Buffs
/ Neutral on NH (Fair enough)
+15 sit-down stun on CH (also, fix the crush properties on this move FFS) (Fair enough)
Crushes mids again during certain frames like DOA4 and Momiji's version (I've wanted this for awhile)
Returned to +6 on block (I'm surprised it wasn't that way in the first place in 5U)
No longer enters ongyoin stance unless 4 is held (DOA4 status) (I can deal with that though I do like it as is)
ONGYOIN Techs under highs in idle frames and during cancel (The hitbox on Ryu is a bit smaller anyway during this, especially in situations like 4K, if you stay idle that is)

Nerfs
5 less stun frames on CH. It's still a huge stun. The extra frames aren't needed
Final hits no longer a natural combo. Very useful and hard hit, but other changes would give him better baits and CB options to account for this.
-2 on block. He overall has a lot more frame advantage with his other moves. (This probably isn't a necessary nerf)
ONGYOIN i17, 38 damage. Still a very useful whiff punish, especially from 7P (Can't say I agree with this one at all. This is his best bail out when he's at +1 or even +4/+6 in Ongyoin. Slowing it down weakens the guard pressure mix-up.
/ / / / Recovery frames increased to prevent extensive juggling from cancelled Izunas. Not much of a hit with Izuna damage being returned to 80 anyway. (I think the juggles are fine. Maybe not as much now with 236P, 66K, Ong K, PPKKP (which looks incredibly stupid), but I liked the old ones, 236P, 4K, Ong K, 41236T/WR 4KK and etc. Basically for more work, you get more damage, but not much more)
ONGYOIN Parries mids only (This isn't Sarah's P+K were talking about though, you're not getting a stun + damage everytime Ryu does it. I think this strength should stay with him for now)

New Moves
/ Hit throw that leads into his expert mid kick hold on NH (gimped damage) (Eh, as cool as that would be I think that's adding a bit much to 1K, maybe instead we could roll with Master's idea. Ongyoin 1K becomes 1K from neutral with a NH stun so it can loop right back into itself)
/ Returning move from DOA4. Nice gap-closing tool outside ongyoin (Aww Yea! )
/ Can transition into handstand again like in DOA4 (Awww Yea! D)
/ DOA5 vanilla version but only +2 GB on block (Personally, I like the new animation better but DOA5's was better. Maybe they could combine the two? New animation with DOA5 properties?)
ONGYOIN Similar to 6KP. Jumping mid punch with +7 on block and bounce on NH. Low/mid crush (He has this and its +9, unless you mean something else. Clarify?)
DOA5 vanilla version. +2 GB on block.

Cut moves
/ ONGYOIN No one will miss this
Replaced. See "New Moves"
/ / Replaced. See "New Moves"
ONGYOIN Replaced. See "New Moves"
ONGYOIN Best on WUs, but he has plenty of other anti-WU tools. This is not needed
With the added pressure of 4PK back in as an i15 mid track punch, I don't feel this is necessary (Yea... I don't like many of the new animations and moves. It seems the theme was "how many hits can we put into one move). 44P has it's double hit, Hitomi's 214KP is one kick to a double punch, WR H+K for Ryu is a 4 in 1, etc).
WR 236K Will fill this role nicely. Doesn't feel necessary beyond the bound state.

Lots of good ideas. Only thing that I see outside of these is 66K launching at max threshold and behaving like 4K in that situation as far as launch height goes. This would give him a reliable mid kick launcher to use after guessing 4-5 times.

Also in the case of 66K, Ong 2P+K the hitbox of Ong 2P+K should be slightly increased so that it will trade against 14i moves instead of hitting on the second active frame (frame 15). This would give him a way to demand the respect necessary after 66K (if its +6 again) because instead of the opponent being able to simply 2P out of every situation, they'd have to consider if their low punch is quick enough which could or could not result in a launch into a nice combo.

 

[Brute]

ONGYOIN Similar to 6KP. Jumping mid punch with +7 on block and bounce on NH. Low/mid crush (He has this and its +9, unless you mean something else. Clarify?)

I would have it without the teleport properties (like 6KP without the K). You lose the gap closing in favor of faster execution, ie: an instant low (and later in the animation mid) crush to better combat 2P spams against ongyoin at close distance. As long as you transition into ongyoin safely, you would now have enough close-range mix-ups to remain on the offensive so long as you make proper reads.

 

[TakedaZX]

I would have it without the teleport properties (like 6KP without the K). You lose the gap closing in favor of faster execution, ie: an instant low (and later in the animation mid) crush to better combat 2P spams against ongyoin at close distance. As long as you transition into ongyoin safely, you would now have enough close-range mix-ups to remain on the offensive so long as you make proper reads.

Yea ok I see. I still think its kind of a long shot of an idea especially since Ong 6P+K can do the job as well and with a wall, cause a "death fist" (the headbutt) to become a launcher. Its common in this game though (Ein Wall Launchers, 46P, 236P, 3KK which all result in combos that pick off about 100 damage on NH I believe, but I'd have to go back into the lab to get you the actual numbers).

On another note, it doesn't seem like there would be away to make that move come out smooth and quickly which in the end just results in a seeable tech jump move that he doesn't have a mix-up to so people will automatically just know, "oh he jumped into the air really high without a teleport, must be that damn low punch crush".

 

[Brute]

Yea ok I see. I still think its kind of a long shot of an idea especially since Ong 6P+K can do the job as well and with a wall, cause a "death fist" (the headbutt) to become a launcher. Its common in this game though (Ein Wall Launchers, 46P, 236P, 3KK which all result in combos that pick off about 100 damage on NH I believe, but I'd have to go back into the lab to get you the actual numbers).

On another note, it doesn't seem like there would be away to make that move come out smooth and quickly which in the end just results in a seeable tech jump move that he doesn't have a mix-up to so people will automatically just know, "oh he jumped into the air really high without a teleport, must be that damn low punch crush".

People who 2P poke you out of ongyoin do so instantly because if they hesitate, they might catch something like 6P+K, his ongyoin throw, etc. If 8P were an instant low crush, they would have no choice really but to be stuck in recovery frames if they tried to low P you and you came crashing down (just as they now get caught by the 6KP crush). Also, ong 6P+K in unsafe on block, adding to the "sit here and block to beat everything ongyoin" mentality (except the super-slow teleports and telegraphed PPcP). Giving him a non-string, non-teleportspeed mid guard break that also instant crushes lows would be a great mixup, imo.
It would still be faster than the teleport 8P we have now. And while it doesn't share warm-up animations with anything else like the tleport mix-ups do, that kind of "same animation, hope you guessed right" nonsense is a bunch of crap anyway.

 

[TakedaZX]

People who 2P poke you out of ongyoin do so instantly because if they hesitate, they might catch something like 6P+K, his ongyoin throw, etc. If 8P were an instant low crush, they would have no choice really but to be stuck in recovery frames if they tried to low P you and you came crashing down (just as they now get caught by the 6KP crush). Also, ong 6P+K in unsafe on block, adding to the "sit here and block to beat everything ongyoin" mentality (except the super-slow teleports and telegraphed PPcP). Giving him a non-string, non-teleportspeed mid guard break that also instant crushes lows would be a great mixup, imo.
It would still be faster than the teleport 8P we have now. And while it doesn't share warm-up animations with anything else like the tleport mix-ups do, that kind of "same animation, hope you guessed right" nonsense is a bunch of crap anyway.

I'm just being realistic here. To make it come out smoothly, it'd have to come out like 6KP does which means... at least around 32 frames of animation probably all together because he needs the hop up, then the crash down. I can't see it working any other way than that as far as speed goes.

The alternative is a quick flip like 214P probably that is given CONSISTENT crush frames for lows and impact before those crush frames are over. Also it'd probably have a slight bit more height... but for a hop as high as 6KP, you'd need time and that's the only issue.

It's not that its a bad idea, its just there's something already in place to check people trying to 2p from disadvantage and on the other hand mixing up 8p with 8t is pretty common in a pressure mix-up so before we call it all crap, lets think about that.

 

[RyuxSama]

UNDERWORLD DROP!!! We need this!!!! C'mon TN!