DOA5U "Lisa, it's your birthday!" DOA5U Lisa General Discussion Thread

[Batcommander]

Thought i'd start a general discussion thread for the new DOA5U Lisa, since every other character has one apparently. Please post whatever Lisa thoughts you have here, doesnt necessarily have to be gameplay related!



About BT and . If the opponent doesnt tech roll immediately, you get a chance to force tech them with . This is old news.

But did you guys know that the force tech gives you +31? Which syncs very nicely with the new BT , which is i32! Been catching people all day with this nonsense. Of course its beatable, but that's when you smack them with another BT and put them into the same situation hoho.

And if they do tech roll, you can still attempt to catch them off guard, or . (yes i know, that's old news too.)

I've been utilizing splash feint more, and I find its still wonky but can be very confusing to people playing defensive.

I found that will cross over the opponent if they dont attempt a hold and leave you at +4. This is because puts the opponent into a heavy ass stun that makes them duck slightly.

If you finish the string with the OH followup, the jumping OH will cross back towards the opponent and catch them! Unfortunately, the body splash followup will only fly back towards the opponent if its open stance(or closed, forgot which one), otherwise Lisa will continue to splash onto nothing behind the opponent and look like a fool.


I have been using a lot more to pretty good success thanks to the new +frames. Anyone else applying it?

In other Lisa news, I remembered today that has its own followups outside of Carrera. No seriously, its worth throwing out every now and then.

 

[ailingeternity]

Here are some OH setups that work well, when used in the stun game they grant Lisa a mixup opportunity to a largely lackluster striking game where she cannot set up for CB like other characters in the DOA5U roster. When used effectively they can create some fast, solid 50/50 situations as the majority of her OH's track, forcing the opponent to crouch/crush/throw/fuzzy guard, which Lisa can answer to with her launch combo if they're over-evasive (or any other countermeasure one may choose). These work regardless of if your opponent slow escapes or not. Her deeper stuns (such as , etc.) can indeed be setup for OHing but offer better hold baiting opportunities for Deja Vu and CB setups, since she cannot go into an OH immediately after.

On Normal Hit;





CAR
BT
BT
BT
BT
SS

On Counter Hit;









On Block;


BT

Throws



Forced Tech

BT



(All setups were tested on Kasumi since she has a i9 jab, which provides great OH countermeasure testing.)

 

[Batcommander]

Dude, this is friggin amazing! I never paid attention to these pseudo throw mixups in vanilla (just went for stun/launch), but you're right, i think they're quite effective to harass an opponent. Have you tried using the same technique but with regular throws? Certain moves will give a small, flat amount of stun that line up perfectly with some of Lisa's throws.

Examples:
CH or CH (will always give +8 even after opponent is stunned)
CH deja vu (always gives around +10-11 even in stun, does too but it will knock opponent away a good distance)
dejavu



here's some other OH setups too
CH or CH
CH
CH (always grants +19 unless at end of threshold)

 

[ailingeternity]

They've existed since DOA4 but because every character had OH's then, they weren't an exclusivity and everybody had the advantage to use them to a similar effect. Limiting them to certain characters grants different mixup opportunities to adapt to. There is talk of nerfing hold damage entirely, but if you do that you limit grapplers' capabilities even more and the game becomes based entirely on striking mixups.

 

[AkaShocka]

Ok. I was in the lab doing random things for random reasons and realized something very awkward. I was testing some Combos on a heavyweight (Leon) and it said that her is -4 on NH.....
Anyone know the answer to that?

 

[Batcommander]

Ok. I was in the lab doing random things for random reasons and realized something very awkward. I was testing some Combos on a heavyweight (Leon) and it said that her is -4 on NH.....
Anyone know the answer to that?

funny, unclekitchener just posted about this haha. Apparently the move is bugged on certain characters.

 

[Batcommander]

alright so i actually found a use for . It's basically a mixup against blocking opponents, and im not talking about the guard crush aspect.

On block, the last hit of can be stuffed by other attacks since its so slow. cant be stuffed, i tested it against kasumi jab, mid, and crouch punch. It probably has to do with the speed of the move, i imagine, or maybe it has an assload of crush frames? I dont have all the characters, so i cant test with a wide variety of moves atm, i just went for a speed test and it checks out.

So basically against a blocking opponent, you mixup between (to beat holders and sidesteppers), and (to beat abare and crouchers). is -5 on block, so the best throws to use would be , , or .

Better yet, even tho is a -5 guard break it leaves you so far away from the opponent it doesnt really matter.

It's just another way to distract your opponent for when you actually do use , which i find people are all too ready to hold 90% of the time.

Also @ailingeternity , ive been using some of the OH setups you posted and i love em lol. I never knew always gave +20 on counter hit, its a great mixup between , or .

I like the setups because they feel a bit safer than trying to fish for CB, plus its fun to incorporate more throws into my game. (incidentally, a tina player said i should stop spamming throws today lmfao)

 

[ailingeternity]

is absolutely useless to me. Sure it's safe but offers no reward on hit, even though it causes a bound launch (so not completely useless in tag). It's a mid so will get stuffed by holds even if people are scouting for . If I'm using a string to harass with I'll always use since you can make it safe by going into BT, or even speaking of, you'll be suprised at how many people will always eat (as well as ) on CH it's not a bad string to get out of disadvantaged situations. is effective during stun but in most cases you'll find you've extended the stun threshold too much for to cause a sitdown stun. They just need to remove completely imo lol.

I find a lot of people don't know how to answer to offensive holds, fuzzy guarding () is a great way to defend against one that's anticipated or even better, throw. This is harder to get to grips with online due to potential lag, if fuzzy guarded you can still net a hi-counter throw if you react in time. I prefer to use CB only with certain stuns, most of Lisa's can be slow escaped before she can get the chance to land one anyway, that's what make these OH setups more effective. is a perfect example of character who uses her offensive holds () after gaining advantage.

 

[Batcommander]

not a big deal, but today i learned (the hard way) that BT / on block gives the opponent a free backturned throw, even though you're not left facing BT after its done. Fast mids also applicable

 

[Batcommander]

so i discovered today that there are additional move details available if you press L1+select in training mode. Very interesting! You can see the exact range of every move. A lot of Lisa's moves have deceptive range.

Before i forget, let me list:
and have about the same range(about 1.55). has more range than both(1.66). But has a surprising bit of range (1.90) which is almost as much as (1.99), wtf

Not only that, BT has more range than booty bump! (2.08 vs 2.00). Better yet, BT is safe from throw attempt at max range.

BT has a bit less range than neutral , i always assumed they were the same (1.37 vs 1.52 i think).

BT has a lot bigger range than i thought it did.

Corbata (BT ) has more range than the version used in strings, i always thought they had the same range there too. Not like it matters, since the new BT butt slam OH has more range, damage, and speed than Corbata anyways.

I'm more surprised by BT and , been using them more at farther range than i usually do and it always surprises me when they actually hit. Been using a lot less since the range is much less than . Well, it looked like it had good range! lol

 

[Gruff757]

here's a neat little shenanigan I've yet to really test out yet,

, CAR,

leaves the you at +4

I'm not sure if it'll work with just CAR , , I don't see why it wouldn't though.

don't do it against a back turned opponent unless you wanna be at -6 lol

I'll try it out during casuals tonight at Blackula's if anyone else wants to, try and see what you can do with it, if anything.

 

[Gruff757]

So uh.....I was thinking....TN should give Lisa a 6p4p2k(the foot stomp) as a mixup for 6p4pp

They should also give her a guard breaking mid version of BT 6T


But I guess that would be too convenient...

 

[ailingeternity]

Love the idea of 6p4p2k that alone would help with Lisa's low game and you'd have to respect 6p4pp. It would be a great mixup for her imo.

 

[Batcommander]

i wish they kept the same as vanilla, would've been a great tool with the new bound option. I find myself using it less since the delayability on the last hit is so tight now

Random note, but I am pretty sure the reason they slightly nerfed the advantage on CH was so it could be used with . It's pretty good imo.

Lastly, here's some additional OH/Throw setups to consider:
CH , (works from BT too)
CH ,
, booty bump, BT
CH /, sidestep, / deja vu/ throw combo (mind ppl that slow escape!)

 

[Gruff757]

i wish they kept the same as vanilla, would've been a great tool with the new bound option. I find myself using it less since the delayability on the last hit is so tight now

Random note, but I am pretty sure the reason they slightly nerfed the advantage on CH was so it could be used with . It's pretty good imo.

Lastly, here's some additional OH/Throw setups to consider:
CH , (works from BT too)
CH ,
, booty bump, BT
CH /, sidestep, / deja vu/ throw combo (mind ppl that slow escape!)

You can add into that also, its always +20 on NH or CH and has an abundant amount of mixup options after it.

 

[Batcommander]

Found another hidden buff today:

As noted before, is not a natural combo (except on counter hit which is great).

But now is a true blockstring, at least as far as i can tell.

If the first jab connects on block, you can't hold the second jab. You can't even low hold, or crouch. Also, since the second jab is tracking, you can't sidestep either.

This was not the case in vanilla where the second jab could be held after blocking.

I've tried crushing the second jab after the first one on block; doesn't work either as far as i can tell, but then i haven't done extensive testing on it. Pretty sure you can't atm.

Works from BT as well.

Pretty neat buff for pressure imo, because now the opponent is forced to deal with the variety of string enders/tick throw setups afterwards, instead of nipping it in the bud at the second punch.

 

[AkaShocka]

I have encountered something very weird. I was doing arcade mode and I used and it beat out Bayman's wake up kick. His kick came out before my did but it still got beaten out. Any clues?

 

[muffinman123]

hey just wondering, when moves have properties for counter hit, do they apply to stun as well? say lisa's bt 4p, it seems to launch when used after 9k stun. so does it launch as much as counter hit version? or does it launch at another height?

 

[Batcommander]

I have encountered something very weird. I was doing arcade mode and I used and it beat out Bayman's wake up kick. His kick came out before my did but it still got beaten out. Any clues?

yes, you can use to beat wakeup kicks because it has an assload of active frames. It's risky however. is also good, but it will whiff against low wakeup. I think you might even be able to use too, havent checked how viable it is. You could do this in vanilla 1.03, but i heard that they removed a bit of invincibility on wakeup kicks in 5U, so it might be easier now.

hey just wondering, when moves have properties for counter hit, do they apply to stun as well? say lisa's bt 4p, it seems to launch when used after 9k stun. so does it launch as much as counter hit version? or does it launch at another height?

Well, regarding Lisa's launchers, if you manage to score a counter hit with them you get full launch height i believe (someone correct me if im wrong).

If you try to use it during the stun game, you need to get the opponent to level 3 critical to get the same height. So yeah, moves have different properties depending on whether you use them in stun game or as standalone moves.

I know it all sounds kinda confusing, but if you have any more questions feel free to post em here or PM me; there's a bunch of good lisa players around

 

[muffinman123]

I can't get the timing of the dejavu's 3rd part down, how do you guys get that 360 in time?