What if?? They have more characters?

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EMPEROR_COW

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It remains to be seen how far the unholdable stun system makes it through development... Shimbori-san did say he did not want to nerf the critical burst as he likes the concept, but he felt it was too easy to reach it with certain characters (and he was probably talking about mine, honestly).

Not nerfing the critical burst, but still wanting to make it harder to reach means he is probably thinking of nerfing the sitdown stuns... or reducing how many a character has. I don't know. Hopefully Bass is not a victim of this.

Time will tell... But I do know that Bass did not have the same ground bounce options that he used to. His maximum-height launches required for his epic command air throws are going to be a lot more predictable as a result.

In the end, I hope they manage to achieve a nice balance where every character is usable and viable. :)

No need for broken tiers ..

The next announcement/reveal better come quick. I'm getting hungry!

CASSANDRA? O_O

Cassanrda over the shitty personality disorder siblings ANYDAY ..

Hell they even trolled us with killick and sophitia ... like ... what the fuck !
Edge master would have been enough !
 
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Deleted member 473

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tina.PNG

Wifey material lol
 

Shinigamimatt

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I wonder if Bass' throws will be easier to land. I noticed that Tina's air throws can be done at lower heights now. Maybe Bass can as well.
 
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Deleted member 473

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I wonder if Bass' throws will be easier to land. I noticed that Tina's air throws can be done at lower heights now. Maybe Bass can as well.
If its anything like that tag team move Him and Tina does in that screenshot, I think Bass will go pretty hard lol
 

Rikuto

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In the end, I hope they manage to achieve a nice balance where every character is usable and viable. :)

No need for broken tiers ..

The next announcement/reveal better come quick. I'm getting hungry!



Cassanrda over the shitty personality disorder siblings ANYDAY ..

Hell they even trolled us with killick and sophitia ... like ... what the fuck !
Edge master would have been enough !

There was nothing broken in the E3 build.
 

EMPEROR_COW

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There was nothing broken in the E3 build.
What on earth does that comment have anything to do with anything I said ? LOL

If that's what you guys felt then that's actually great news!

I was under the impression that Zack wasn't quite there yet. And no1 really played Kokoro or Lei Fang at a decent enough level to judge them.

In any case, I hope they balance it properly in the end. It would be nice to see more diversity in character selection this time around.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
You said there was no need for broken tiers, implying that is something we might want.

So I was stating that there is nothing currently broken. More than enough people are already whining on twitter that Bayman was too good so he's probably going to bite the dust relatively soon... and these same people are completely clueless as to what Bayman can/cannot do, so that pisses me off.

I don't like it when people go around claiming "broke" when they don't even understand what broke is. The ignorant should not be given so much power over something.

Not saying this is necessarily the case with you, just saying it's pissing me off recently.
 

DrDogg

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I was under the impression that Zack wasn't quite there yet. And no1 really played Kokoro or Lei Fang at a decent enough level to judge them.

Zack and Christie were the worst in the E3 build, by far. Kokoro and Lei Fang were solid, but definitely not top tier. Bayman, Tina, Hayabusa and Hitomi were tops in the E3 build.

Disclaimer: Based on limited play time and a general knowledge of their available tools.
 

EMPEROR_COW

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You said there was no need for broken tiers, implying that is something we might want.

So I was stating that there is nothing currently broken. More than enough people are already whining on twitter that Bayman was too good so he's probably going to bite the dust relatively soon... and these same people are completely clueless as to what Bayman can/cannot do, so that pisses me off. The ignorant should not be given so much power over something.

I don't like it when people go around claiming "broke" when they don't even understand what broke is. The ignorant should not be given so much power over something.

Not saying this is necessarily the case with you, just saying it's pissing me off recently.

I never even mentioned Bayman or any character for that matter. I simply just hoped for a good balance, that's it!

I just want all the characters to be fun to use and to have the tools that would give them a fair chance at winning.

Have a little faith in Shinbori and Co. I'm sure they'll create a good balance. They seem to be in the right mindset with the game.

I'm actually looking forward to trying out Bayman. His mid string throw shenanigans look so fun to use, particularly if they had a strike variant. That would mean a "HI COUNTER THROW" for every attempt to hold him on those particular strings... Oh, the mind fuck! and the damage! Mmmmm (now if only they give him back his beret :p)

One thing I don't want though, is what happened to SCV and MK9, which is a fricken patch every few months.
I just want them get the balance right from get go and not mess us up with updates and bullshit every month. That's one of the things that really irritate me. It's like companies these days think its ok to do a half-assed job because they can just fix it whenever a problem comes up. (I didn't mention the shit fest in SFxT because what happened to that abomination of a game throughout the months is just disgusting). That kind of crap never happened in the 90s.
 

DriftSlave

Active Member
No Cow, in the 90's you just bought the game again....that's totally better. Mind you games were like $70-80 back then too...i'll spare you the history lesson but it was far worse back then than it is now.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
It's like companies these days think its ok to do a half-assed job because they can just fix it whenever a problem comes up. (I didn't mention the shit fest in SFxT because what happened to that abomination of a game throughout the months is just disgusting). That kind of crap never happened in the 90s.
Even back in the 90's arcade games got updated revisions. For example, 3rd Strike has two revisions (Rev. A and Rev. B).

Funny thing is though, back then, we tended to prefer the "broken" unpatched revisions (e.g. the community prefers 3rd Strike Rev. A, which is why the latest port is based on that).
 

EMPEROR_COW

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No Cow, in the 90's you just bought the game again....that's totally better. Mind you games were like $70-80 back then too...i'll spare you the history lesson but it was far worse back then than it is now.

No it wasn't because when the game came out again it was a long time till it did. This forced players to find workarounds to the exploits and create strategies to counteract them. And 90% of the fighters we had back then on consoles only came to us after a long time of being in the arcades, which was the ideal testing ground. Most of the time the home versions would have slight updates that would fix the problems that the arcades suffered from. And in some cases they end up releasing an update to the arcade to have a similar experience. It obviously costs them more money to do that, but the mentality was a lot more different back then.

This whole broken tier concept and complete giving up on a game just because some character is BROKEN is a result of this new whiny generation that most of the time has no basis to what they are talking about. You cant decide shit like that in an early lifespan of a game because the workarounds havent been discovered yet !

Then you look at a company like Capcom, and you look at a game called SSF4 AE. They said to everyone in their face that "they were creating an out of balance game to make it more fun!" That of course came back and bit them right back in the ass, and they had to make what we all know as SSF4 Apology Edition ver. 2012. But, it was too late then because they already turned off enough people and indirectly forced them to acctually seek a more fun experience in other games. Vanilla SF4 was slightly broken with Sagat, but not THAT broken because it was the unintentional brokenness that was similar to the 90's! In fact, there were more tournaments won with other characters than with Sagat because everyone had an anti-Sagat strategy. SSF4 came out and the balance was even better, but now Fei Long and Cammy were the new top tier and people had to figure out ways to beat THEM. (for the record, Fei Long and Cammy were already that good in sf4 but they were only discovered as such later in the games life cycle which is why they kinda skipped the balances of SSF4).

However, this cycle of back and forth balancing happened from year-year minimum .. not month-month (excluding AE's short life span of 6 months, but that was entirely their fault for experimenting on us). its a Really shitty feeling when your character changes up all the time, and it really messes up a lot of the setups that you had. Creating new stuff every few weeks is NOT my idea of fun, its frustrating especially if you play competitively because you can't just go back and re-learn everything every 5 minutes, its shit!

I prefer a game that's as balanced as they can possibly make it and really put all their final focus on achieving that before anything. If something slips out of the balance then it wouldn't be too bad if they did their job right and we would just have to figure out workarounds. Bugs however, are a different story and those should be fixed as instantly as possible for the sake of the game.
 

Shinigamimatt

Active Member
I'm wondering if some of it has to do with this new age of gamers. Why is that games nowadays are getting easier? To appease the casual gamer. They're the majority. They don't like to work for their wins. They want it handed to them. I can't tell you how many times people cry that my Kasumi is broke.

I even try to tell them different. I explain why they lost and how they could have beaten me. But they don't want to hear a word of it. Casuals don't want to understand how they lost. They don't want to earn wins.The casuals rule the gaming world. The developers want to cater to them because games are becoming expensive to make. They want the money. So it's casuals say on what happens.

Casuals only get so good (as long as it didn't take them too much effort), then whatever they can't beat gets labeled cheap or broken. These new-age instant gratification gamers are destroying fighters as far as I'm concerned.
 

EMPEROR_COW

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I'm wondering if some of it has to do with this new age of gamers. Why is that games nowadays are getting easier? To appease the casual gamer. They're the majority. They don't like to work for their wins. They want it handed to them. I can't tell you how many times people cry that my Kasumi is broke.

I even try to tell them different. I explain why they lost and how they could have beaten me. But they don't want to hear a word of it. Casuals don't want to understand how they lost. They don't want to earn wins.The casuals rule the gaming world. The developers want to cater to them because games are becoming expensive to make. They want the money. So it's casuals say on what happens.

Casuals only get so good (as long as it didn't take them too much effort), then whatever they can't beat gets labeled cheap or broken. These new-age instant gratification gamers are destroying fighters as far as I'm concerned.

At the end of the day a mass online update is a cheaper fix.
Its understandablee and even forgivable to a degree of it was aimed at fixing bugs or a wonky hitbox here n there.
Its just irritating when you have a characters completely chopped up and butchered in such a short time of release. You would think they would notice such blatant brokenness in the first place.

I understand the catering to casuals bit... But, looking back at the old days, casuals never really left despite the harsh rules.. if a game was fun every1 of all levels played it.

Look at the tournament history of games... Despite broken characters, the top players always came out on top even if they werent tier whoring. Why? Because they're used to finding workarounds and dealing with that kind of pressure..

Now its just... Dumb...
I think thats why im enjoying vf5:fs so much... Because we got the end product of years of testing and tweaking and it feels just right.

I just hope Doa5 can achieve a balance as near as possible to vf5:fs .. where every character can be good enough equally... Or as equal as possible.

Thats what I hope for more than anything at the end of the day
 

Shinigamimatt

Active Member
I understand the catering to casuals bit... But, looking back at the old days, casuals never really left despite the harsh rules.. if a game was fun every1 of all levels played it.
That's fair. If it's fun, people will stay with it long enough to get good. It's what I did with DOA. I just find it so silly that so many people don't even try to understand something before they label it broke. Granted it's also the developers fault for fixing something that wasn't broken in the first place.

I dunno. Maybe developers know it's not broke, but they fix it anyway. Because at the end of the day, if it's a major complaint by tons and tons of fans....it's a complaint. It's a developers job to address those issues, I understand, but it's a shame when competitive players suffer. They may not be the companies money makers, but they put the most time and effort into the actual games.
 

DriftSlave

Active Member
That wall of text and you still missed the point completely. Now i see what drdogg goes through. Like dv3 just said many games in the 90s went through revision. Hell doa2 has went throught ports and revisions. This had very little to do with player mentality... But w/e. Yeah i agree sometimes players need time with a game before making serious revision however if something is broken like legitly gamebreaking its not right to let it sit there. The just deal with it metality doesnt work there...again w/e becasue the idea of patches is like a sin now...
 

Awesmic

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So yeah, before this turns into another episode of "Moonlighting" between EC and DrDogg, I have a little food for thought...

EC, DLC is overall a great convenience for balancing and cosmetic content compared to how fighting games were done in the 90s. Just because one company is mishandling it with characters doesn't mean it's a bad idea for an entire era of fighting games, come on now. That's just one company not using their heads.

The problem lies in the closed-minded straw men that believe if (insert company that makes a successful fighting game here) can't get it right, no one else will... cause, you know... it's said company. Customer/Consumer loyalty runs so deep with some people that they can't think for themselves and follow the bigger bandwagon. And so they don't give other games a chance, and make a mountain out of a molehill at the slightest blemish.

But then again, I'm considered a troll who never makes sense by some people. What do I know?
 

EMPEROR_COW

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Premium Donor
So yeah, before this turns into another episode of "Moonlighting" between EC and DrDogg, I have a little food for thought...

EC, DLC is overall a great convenience for balancing and cosmetic content compared to how fighting games were done in the 90s. Just because one company is mishandling it with characters doesn't mean it's a bad idea for an entire era of fighting games, come on now. That's just one company not using their heads.

The problem lies in the closed-minded straw men that believe if (insert company that makes a successful fighting game here) can't get it right, no one else will... cause, you know... it's said company. Customer/Consumer loyalty runs so deep with some people that they can't think for themselves and follow the bigger bandwagon. And so they don't give other games a chance, and make a mountain out of a molehill at the slightest blemish.

But then again, I'm considered a troll who never makes sense by some people. What do I know?

I'm all for DLC, especially later in a game's life. It keeps the game fresh and interesting.

What frustrates me is constant patch after patch after patch which screws with character properties. MK9 and SCV are enough examples.

As much as capcom fucked up with SFxT, their SF4 series was always solid in that aspect and they let the game develop and grow long enough before a new iteration of the game came out (a year after), even with their AE fuck up, they left it that way to see how it pans out and the final version (ver. 2012) is now just right. That way they kept everyone hooked by labeling it a new game and strapping on more characters, stages, costumes, music, and cheesy stills for stories.

All I'm saying is, I hope they do a good job with the balance from the get go. That way, if an exploit was found, then it wouldn't be too severe or game breaking, and hopefully not worth a crazy accross the board patch.

We already kind of have a hint of a newer version in the works (or a totally new game for that matter) .. We just have to wait and see how this one plays out first ..
 
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