DOA5 E3 Version Q&A

[AKNova7]

I read everything you have said. Which is why in the end I told you to ask what the terms are for DOA. You keep referencing to what things are called from another game and further confusing yourself (to the point were you think we don't know what to call things) and possibly others. No one is hostile, at least on my part.

Now I have to ask you, did you even read what you said? Not once did you ask for the terms for DOA, well, you didn't ask me. You never gave 'suggestions', you kept comparing/referencing SC terms to DOA.

I am more than happy to enlighten you. Here you go: http://freestepdodge.com/wiki/dead-or-alive-terminology/

You can learn our terminology, properly.

Just mis-communication. I need to write my posts to not come off so pushy, as do I need to write my posts to not feel like I'm pushing knowledge from another fighting game onto DOA. That's the last thing I want to do, so I apologize.

The term is just frame advantage. That'll work. Thanks.

I knew it wasn't the only way to be positive in frames, but there's not really any specific way to refer to moves that have frame advantage on block in this scenario, it seems.

^ The questions were there, they were just written as statements because I figured you'd chime in and correct me, like you did the first time you replied to me. My bad.

Just say the move grants advantage or has plus frames or has frame advantage. There's no need for a designated term for an attack that's advantage on block.

Understood.

From playing VF heavily the past few days; I have learned attacking out disadvantage is one of the dumbest things you can do. If you do attack out of disadvantage it shouldn't be made a habit, no matter how good you are.

In VF, that pretty much makes you counter hit bait on most occasions. It's done on occasion though, but mostly, if done smartly, with the use of some evasive move. Unless you want to eat CH Jacky Bryant backflip kicks all day.

 

[Allan Paris]

Oh it's no big deal. Its cool, all is good.

 

[Raansu]

That punch was not delayed. I watched it several times. They were all in succession to each other. I don't even think they slowed down the punch in that string. It seems that the string sucks now, terribly. What she did, why should anyone care that they are at a disadvantage? Forget being at +12 on block with a character. It apparently doesn't matter when you are getting hit by certain characters.

I want to know can that be done to other strings Christie has, and can other characters do that as well to each other?

I'm wondering if it was just a bug. Kasumi definitely should not have been able to attack out of that.

 

[Rikuto]

It's because christie was on normal hit and not counter hit. Thus no real stun was caused by the attack, and her third strike of 6ppp is quite slow.

Doesn't make it right but that's why it happened.

 

[Codemaster92163]

That punch string did look glitchy, but I don't see why it's all we're focusing on now xD I think a circumstance like that is more than likely to be the only instance of being able to do that, save for potential highs that a player knows to attack low on.

And I still don't think DOA4 was a shitty game. It wasn't perfect, not by a long shot, but I really don't think half the people here really think it's trash. Truth be told, I think they say that simply to say it and agree with some other players. Then again, it's all opinion about what you want and don't want in a game. I enjoyed it, even with the issues it contained, so I played it.

 

[MASTER]

I'm wondering if it was just a bug. Kasumi definitely should not have been able to attack out of that.

I saw the vid real quick. I dont think its a bug. Christie (Probably) had two different things happen. One was that her string was delayed so when kasumi got hit and pushed the punch command she was interrupted. The solution to this is to not delay the string in that section since it is actually slower than the rest of it and i believe christie could have done 1 more poke after the one she was interrupted in(total pokes in string = 4).

The other possibility is that her string may have been slowed down which i dont think is the case but it is a possibility. If that truly is the case then kasumi can interrupt christie every time as long she is not being counter-hit. Which in all these cases she was NOT (This was possible in other DOA games if there was no CHit/blow). The solution for this is to first find out if kasumi's jab speed is the only kind that can interrupt it. What I mean by this is that its possible that her jab speed enables her to interrupt Christie while someone with a slower jab speed may not be able to do this(ex: Hayate,Hitomi). If characters slower than Kasumi cannot interrupt then you already addressed the problem with 90% of the other characters by simply not delaying that particular part of the string like mentioned previously.

However for kasumi or characters like her you need a different strategy. In most cases when a character does not finish a string they are left unsafe for a command throw but i wouldnt be surprised if Christie was -9 frames after her second poke right before she got interrupted. This means the solution for the rest of the cast (10%) would be to stop the string after the first two pokes and hold Hi for a HCH damage. Its a gamble but so was Kasumi throwing a jab in the first place to interrupt the string.

Again this is all theoretical since none of us were playing this match, We also do not know if this applies to other characters. And the ability to attack after normal 'hit-stun' and in some cases interrupt a combo string has always been in DOA as long as it wasnt Hi/Counter hit or put you in a critical state.

MASTER

 

[Rikuto]

That punch string did look glitchy, but I don't see why it's all we're focusing on now xD I think a circumstance like that is more than likely to be the only instance of being able to do that, save for potential highs that a player knows to attack low on.

And I still don't think DOA4 was a shitty game. It wasn't perfect, not by a long shot, but I really don't think half the people here really think it's trash. Truth be told, I think they say that simply to say it and agree with some other players. Then again, it's all opinion about what you want and don't want in a game. I enjoyed it, even with the issues it contained, so I played it.

I enjoyed parts of it. Like the game was super fun if you were drunk and didn't really care what was going on.

As a competitive fighter though? Train wreck. There was no enjoyment to be had.

Now people can say that they enjoyed the game for competition, but they would be lying through their teeth. If they did actually like the game for that reason, they would have been out competing in the game and they were not. I remember hearing this from such people and seeing them at tournaments, only to enter into several other games while omitting DOA 4 from their schedule.

I remember seeing this constantly, and I remember watching the tournament organizers actually have to walk around begging these people to play DOA 4 because it had like 7 people entering while every other game had like 40-100. So I don't buy it. There is just no way that could be true.

 

[Raansu]

It's because christie was on normal hit and not counter hit. Thus no real stun was caused by the attack, and her third strike of 6ppp is quite slow.

Doesn't make it right but that's why it happened.

Pretty retarded. I'd expect someone in a hit stun like that to not being able to jab out THAT fast.

 

[Rikuto]

Pretty retarded. I'd expect someone in a hit stun like that to not being able to jab out THAT fast.

Tis a very short hit stun. And this is kasumi we're talking about...

Honestly you didn't see this much in DOA 4 simply because nobody ever gets normal hits. I wouldn't be surprised if it was totally possible there too.

 

[grap3fruitman]

You people are selfish.

What? We're being selfish for wanting DOA5 to be a solid fighter? I'm not following.

 

[Rikuto]

I too would like some elaboration on that.

 

[DrDogg]

Looking at the E3 build frame data, I estimate that about half of the attacks in the game are disadvantage on normal hit if they don't lead to a critical stun. Of those attacks, most of them are unsafe. However, in these situations, you can't throw the opponent. If the next attack in the string is initiated before the throw connects, the throwing player will get hi-counter blown. Attacking in this situation can work, but it's limited depending on the string in question and the jab speed of the defending player.

Also of note, Tina is the safest character in the game with about 50% of her attacks safe on block. The next closest character is about 20% safe.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

What? We're being selfish for wanting DOA5 to be a solid fighter? I'm not following.

Pretty sure he's just trolling.

Also of note, Tina is the safest character in the game with about 50% of her attacks safe on block. The next closest character is about 20% safe.

This doesn't really surprise me. Didn't she have a lot of safe moves in DOA 4 as well?

 

[DriftSlave]

If DrDogg or Rikuto could answer these quick question I failed ask before, more or less...

1st being, do you guys know if characters have more then 1 Critical Burst move? If so can you give an example?
2nd, how do you guys feel about balance between moves that on normal hit or counter hit that give unholdable stun states vs moves that give critical stun states in relation to critical burst?

sorry if this was answered before or if we have a critical burst FAQ or thread at this time and I missed it.

 

[DR2K]

Fun fact: the term VF players use for attacking out of disadvantage is "abare."

More often then not it works in VF. Especially at smaller disadvantages. As seen in the Christie vs Kasumi video.

 

[DrDogg]

1st being, do you guys know if characters have more then 1 Critical Burst move? If so can you give an example?
2nd, how do you guys feel about balance between moves that on normal hit or counter hit that give unholdable stun states vs moves that give critical stun states in relation to critical burst?

1. I was able to pull off two different Critical Bursts with Tina (as seen in her exhibition video), but I think the 4PPP CB was a glitch. Sarah also has an attack that caused the CB stun and visual/audio effects, but did not display "Critical Burst" on the screen. This may also be a glitch.

2. It's so rare to hit anything on normal hit, it's kind of irrelevant. That said, I think far too many attacks grant a Critical Stun on normal hit. I'm not a fan of CS at all because the opponent can counter immediately as soon as they're in a CS. Not enough attacks granted an unholdable stun on normal hit, but to be fair, you shouldn't really be able to get that kind of stun on normal hit. It's just that if there are going to be NH launcher and CS, there should be more NH unholdable stuns.

Now what do you mean, "in relation to critical burst"? You can't get the CB stun on NH or CH. The opponent has to be in a stunned state before you initial a CB stun, so your question kind of confuses me.

More often then not it works in VF. Especially at smaller disadvantages. As seen in the Christie vs Kasumi video.

Aside from sabaki attacks, I disagree with the "more often then not" phrasing. If you attack me out of disadvantage in VF and you're not using a sabaki, more often than not I'm going to hit you and you're probably not going to like the outcome... especially since I play a character who can maintain a constant series of frame advantage.

 

[DriftSlave]

1. I was able to pull off two different Critical Bursts with Tina (as seen in her exhibition video), but I think the 4PPP CB was a glitch. Sarah also has an attack that caused the CB stun and visual/audio effects, but did not display "Critical Burst" on the screen. This may also be a glitch.

2. It's so rare to hit anything on normal hit, it's kind of irrelevant. That said, I think far too many attacks grant a Critical Stun on normal hit. I'm not a fan of CS at all because the opponent can counter immediately as soon as they're in a CS. Not enough attacks granted an unholdable stun on normal hit, but to be fair, you shouldn't really be able to get that kind of stun on normal hit. It's just that if there are going to be NH launcher and CS, there should be more NH unholdable stuns.

Now what do you mean, "in relation to critical burst"? You can't get the CB stun on NH or CH. The opponent has to be in a stunned state before you initial a CB stun, so your question kind of confuses me.

Im sorry about how I put that question together. I was trying to say, how do you feel about the overall amount of attacks, that give a unholdable stun state(sitdown, limbo) in relation to critical burst themselves because Ideally one would want to put their opponent in a unholdable state to initiate a Critical Burst. More or less to see if it was a viable tactic to use.

To clarify im not sure if there is any normal/counter hit moves that have sitdown/limbo stun states without being in Critical stun in the E3 demo.

 

[DrDogg]

Im sorry about how I put that question together. I was trying to say, how do you feel about the overall amount of attacks, that give a unholdable stun state(sitdown, limbo) in relation to critical burst themselves because Ideally one would want to put their opponent in a unholdable state to initiate a Critical Burst. More or less to see if it was a viable tactic to use.

To clarify im not sure if there is any normal/counter hit moves that have sitdown/limbo stun states without being in Critical stun in the E3 demo.

There are attacks that grant a sit down stun on NH (Kokoro has at least two as I recall). However, this still doesn't guarantee a CB stun. The only way (so far) that you can get a CB stun on the second hit of a combo is if the CB attack stuns long enough for you to connect another one before the opponent escapes the stun. Basically, you have to be able to start a stun combo with a CB, and follow it up with a second CB to get the stun on the second hit.

Not all CB attacks stun when not at the maximum threshold, and some are slow enough that you have to be somewhat selective about when you try to use them. For example, Ayane, Christie and Zack have CB attacks that are somewhat slow, which made it a little harder to find an attack that stunned the opponent long enough to connect them (especially when you factor in slow escape).

Also, not all CB attacks have the same range. After one of Kokoro's sit down stuns, the opponent is too far away to connect her CB.

I would like to see a lot more attacks that put an opponent into an unholdable stun on CH or during a critical state stun. Limiting the number of times an opponent can use a counterhold during a stun is a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DriftSlave]

Ok, that is starting to sink in now, but if you can DrDogg. Can you explain the Critical Burst Setup Kayane was using at E3 in detail? that seem to work 90% of the time.

 

[RuNNing Riot]

To Rikuto: short question, does Bayman's Fire Bullet (6P+K in 4 and 4P+K in earlier DOAs) launch again on stun, counter or hi-counter hit?