Darth Lotonic X
Active Member
A. Can't grab after a Critical Burst
B. More Damage, plus ceiling hits.
I will agree that they look stupid, but letting that cloud your judgment about them is just as stupid.
System Power Launchers suck.
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A. Can't grab after a Critical Burst
B. More Damage, plus ceiling hits.
I will agree that they look stupid, but letting that cloud your judgment about them is just as stupid.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
You don't need a critical burst though.
Just baiting a hold and grabbing is a lot easier and more efficient way to get around the same damage, rather than the huge hassle that comes with trying to set up a power launcher.
That's what I mean by its redundant. All that work and situational requirements for something that is almost, if not outright matched by simply pressing A.
Pl can result in big damage, but too many downsides to really be a viable option.
if i was good at this game i would personally only use it for ceiling hits. it goes from this completely alien move to:
"this guy's in sit down stun, go fuck his shit up"
"this guy's in sit down stun, go fuck his shit up"
Everyone here is saying what I thought. In fact, I'm going to claim you all stole my idea and now I'm going to go all apple and capcom on your asses.
@Argentus That's a neutral argument. You can say the same thing with PB, to which PB is more suited to it because it guard breaks for a free i15 attack and you can cancel it. Can you provide an example of massive PL damage?
The only time I ever use a PL is when I'm spacing, screw up my input and do it by mistake.
@Argentus That's a neutral argument. You can say the same thing with PB, to which PB is more suited to it because it guard breaks for a free i15 attack and you can cancel it. Can you provide an example of massive PL damage?
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Ceiling hits for Brad amounts to about the same damage. Even less in certain stages because of the floor break. Also some characters can stun reset after a CB to give frame advantage (Lisa's 4p for example making her 66p+h OH a viable option as a followup).
The only time I ever use a PL is when I'm spacing, screw up my input and do it by mistake.
A good example of a character who's PL combo damage is consistently higher than a PB would be Mila. She has the easiest PL combos to pull off and can net a lot more damage than most of the cast is capable of dealing. How?
In a non ceiling hit space she can immediately perform a second fully charged PL (so the command is
:[[p+k]]: > :[[p+k]] and juggle for weight class into either a knock away juggle finish (usually either or ) or a into Mount throw finishers (which is optimal in open space). After a CB (calculated for a stun hit so add 20 for raw hit) she can deal between 77 and 127 damage on Normal Hit without wall hits or Danger Zones. In the case you are broken out of Mount you will end up only doing 77 damage. 3 Damage below a normal Power Blow is pretty good (yes you could argue it is still less than a PB but you sacrifice 3 points of damage to attempt to get an extra 47).
In a ceiling space she can net up to 114 damage in stun/CB (again with the risk of a Combo Throw situation) but attempting to net over 80 damage otherwise with her strikes is extremely difficult in a CB launch. With a raw PL in ceilings she can get a guaranteed CB (again, with a RAW PL) and net even more damage (up to 176 total damage without breakables/walls/DZs on normal hit).
With characters who are able to ground throw (unless Bass is going for a Pickup game) their optimal finishes are to attempt to get the ground throw by any means necessary, if they have an air throw go for the air throw unless there is a combo that exceeds that of the air throw (only characters I can think of that this applies to are Hayabusa and La Mariposa). Because throw damage isn't reduced or increased in juggles they tend to have the higher damaging combos at the risk of being broken.
PL and PB use is circumstantial. If I know I can get more damage than one by doing the other in the current situation then I will opt for it. In terms of game play PLs definitely do not suck, aesthetics shouldn't be the reason you don't use one of the better universal tools the game lets you have. You just have to practice all to hell to get used to timing out combos to get results.
Edit: Where did the 100-110 damage threshold stuff come from? If the PL combo deals more than 80 damage it deals more damage than a normal PB.
In a non ceiling hit space she can immediately perform a second fully charged PL (so the command is
:[[p+k]]: > :[[p+k]] and juggle for weight class into either a knock away juggle finish (usually either or ) or a into Mount throw finishers (which is optimal in open space). After a CB (calculated for a stun hit so add 20 for raw hit) she can deal between 77 and 127 damage on Normal Hit without wall hits or Danger Zones. In the case you are broken out of Mount you will end up only doing 77 damage. 3 Damage below a normal Power Blow is pretty good (yes you could argue it is still less than a PB but you sacrifice 3 points of damage to attempt to get an extra 47).In a ceiling space she can net up to 114 damage in stun/CB (again with the risk of a Combo Throw situation) but attempting to net over 80 damage otherwise with her strikes is extremely difficult in a CB launch. With a raw PL in ceilings she can get a guaranteed CB (again, with a RAW PL) and net even more damage (up to 176 total damage without breakables/walls/DZs on normal hit).
With characters who are able to ground throw (unless Bass is going for a Pickup game) their optimal finishes are to attempt to get the ground throw by any means necessary, if they have an air throw go for the air throw unless there is a combo that exceeds that of the air throw (only characters I can think of that this applies to are Hayabusa and La Mariposa). Because throw damage isn't reduced or increased in juggles they tend to have the higher damaging combos at the risk of being broken.
PL and PB use is circumstantial. If I know I can get more damage than one by doing the other in the current situation then I will opt for it. In terms of game play PLs definitely do not suck, aesthetics shouldn't be the reason you don't use one of the better universal tools the game lets you have. You just have to practice all to hell to get used to timing out combos to get results.
Edit: Where did the 100-110 damage threshold stuff come from? If the PL combo deals more than 80 damage it deals more damage than a normal PB.
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Argentus
Well-Known Member
A good example of a character who's PL combo damage is consistently higher than a PB would be Mila. She has the easiest PL combos to pull off and can net a lot more damage than most of the cast is capable of dealing. How?
In a non ceiling hit space she can immediately perform a second fully charged PL (so the command is
In a ceiling space she can net up to 114 damage in stun/CB (again with the risk of a Combo Throw situation) but attempting to net over 80 damage otherwise with her strikes is extremely difficult in a CB launch. With a raw PL in ceilings she can get a guaranteed CB (again, with a RAW PL) and net even more damage (up to 176 total damage without breakables/walls/DZs on normal hit).
With characters who are able to ground throw (unless Bass is going for a Pickup game) their optimal finishes are to attempt to get the ground throw by any means necessary, if they have an air throw go for the air throw unless there is a combo that exceeds that of the air throw (only characters I can think of that this applies to are Hayabusa and La Mariposa). Because throw damage isn't reduced or increased in juggles they tend to have the higher damaging combos at the risk of being broken.
PL and PB use is circumstantial. If I know I can get more damage than one by doing the other in the current situation then I will opt for it. In terms of game play PLs definitely do not suck, aesthetics shouldn't be the reason you don't use one of the better universal tools the game lets you have. You just have to practice all to hell to get used to timing out combos to get results.
Edit: Where did the 100-110 damage threshold stuff come from? If the PL combo deals more than 80 damage it deals more damage than a normal PB.
So much jargon I don't understand...
But more to the point, on Power Launchers themselves, did/do we really need an "even more bonus damage" launcher in the first place? We know they allow for more damage but...was that really necessary?
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Argentus
Well-Known Member
Yeah I got the gist of it.
Always feel kinda bad that I don't have a reason to look at combo videos for Mila, because I don't play like that.
We need a video showcasing what crushes what in matchups.
So are you asking whether we like the mechanic or whether we feel it is efficient?
Regarding the latter, I can't imagine anyone denying it. Power Launchers are insanely useful, some more than others. Ryu's is excellent and Mila's is just downright crazy. They are undeniably efficient tools.
Regarding the latter, I can't imagine anyone denying it. Power Launchers are insanely useful, some more than others. Ryu's is excellent and Mila's is just downright crazy. They are undeniably efficient tools.
Stun Academy 2 was a great tournament for many reasons, but one of the best reasons was: all power launchers were successfully completed. A lot of players play around with the power launchers, but never practice them well. The key here is to practice with the power launchers, and make sure your power launcher is going to reap some sort of benefit if it doesn't get more damage than a power blow (but it should certainly get more damage than the PB).
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
I hardly see a point since most are playing the air-juggle the crap out of whether the character goes 5 inches or 500 feet otg! Heck, when I use Helena and do the BKO throw, I just let opponents drop! It's not as if I can't relaunch them and go ham (though I cannot). Likewise, with the asinine combos. It's a waste putting in highly unnecessary efforts to get damage ehen one can bait holds and freaking THROW! (Hell, even the throw characters (players with those characters don't do enough. The striking ones, of course, they don't give a damn!)
But yes, PLs while not useless, aren't as valuable as they've been made to look. When is the last time somebody saw a tag combo off a PL? Again, they were just added to get more oohs and ahhs although, the flashiness is already past being ridiculous while just on the ground (Momiji's air BS isn't enough? See what I mean!) Yeah, timing and practice to execute them well, but outside of that, what's that point?
But yes, PLs while not useless, aren't as valuable as they've been made to look. When is the last time somebody saw a tag combo off a PL? Again, they were just added to get more oohs and ahhs although, the flashiness is already past being ridiculous while just on the ground (Momiji's air BS isn't enough? See what I mean!) Yeah, timing and practice to execute them well, but outside of that, what's that point?
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The last time I saw a tag combo off PL was never, because PL isn't needed for that aspect of the game. You get that kind of damage (maybe even air LOL) from tags alone, and it runs off completely different meta than 1v1. I can get three or four tags off of Alpha's P string and 3P string alone. Tag is definitely fun if you like seeing crazy, stupid shit.
PLs are incredibly useful because they are game changers. This shouldn't even really be a debate or a poll... Brute said it perfectly. But I will add that PLs should be well practiced... and the PB is great for the danger zones, and is also great for beginners who need something to work with why they improve their PL or are just beginning to grasp the newer DOA mechanic. I assure you Team NINJA didn't add those awesome animations for shits and giggles.
PLs are incredibly useful because they are game changers. This shouldn't even really be a debate or a poll... Brute said it perfectly. But I will add that PLs should be well practiced... and the PB is great for the danger zones, and is also great for beginners who need something to work with why they improve their PL or are just beginning to grasp the newer DOA mechanic. I assure you Team NINJA didn't add those awesome animations for shits and giggles.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
....game changers?
Its the exact same thing that was already there, but...more damage. Not really a game changer. Just an (unnecessary, IMO) another way to do damage.
I dunno. It feels like while obviously useful for some extra damage, its way too over hyped as some game changing mechanic, when its just another tool like any other, and having a " super juggle" felt really unnecessary
Then again, I don't like that they added supers to DOA at ALL, either
Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Probably not, but fme, i rarely see them used. Hell, I rarely use either the PB or PL. They're nice, but I'm not seeing intelligent usage! What I am seeing is: "Oh, crap! I'm about to lose and I'm scared!" It would be completely asinine if I only need three love taps after two H-C BURSTS, but use my PB especially if I managed a critical blast. Every time I see that online, I'm like: "You were scared!" and guess what? Opponents confirm this. Why since you spent all day combo-whoring? Play SMART not just hard!! KWIM? Not to mention how unsafe PBs are and the possibility of coming up empty after a PL.
But again, what is the point when most juggles happen mid-air, even facing alpha! Cause what happens? One gets launched 500 feet, but combos begin when that character falls halfway down. JS!
TLEE SAID THIS:
Active Member
Dumb question here, but are PLs holdable and safe on block?
Holdable: Yes.
Safe on block: No.
two of the most stubborn players on this convo right now
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