System Power Launchers suck.

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

The last time I saw a tag combo off PL was never, because PL isn't needed for that aspect of the game. You get that kind of damage (maybe even air LOL) from tags alone, and it runs off completely different meta than 1v1. I can get three or four tags off of Alpha's P string and 3P string alone. Tag is definitely fun if you like seeing crazy, stupid shit.

PLs are incredibly useful because they are game changers. This shouldn't even really be a debate or a poll... Brute said it perfectly. But I will add that PLs should be well practiced... and the PB is great for the danger zones, and is also great for beginners who need something to work with why they improve their PL or are just beginning to grasp the newer DOA mechanic. I assure you Team NINJA didn't add those awesome animations for shits and giggles.

I still believe you are overblowing Power Launcher a little too much...

The issue with Power Launchers is pretty much as Argentus and someone else stated: You REALLY need to get the practice down and the even a small bit of messup can easily screw up the whole damn thing compared to the easiness of a Power Blow + Environmental Damage.

So while it's definitely an advanced move, it's still has too many flaws to really be truly useful past taking advantaged of places like Home and Dragon Temple.

 

[Chapstick]

There are piss easy power launchers. Kasumi's no-timing 4H KK7K~6P+K PPKK PL does a ton of damage.

 

[HHH816]

seriously i never use power launchers online

 

[Tones]

What's the ratio of cast where PB is actually useful?
So far.. Useless: Brad, Lisa, Lei Fang
Useful: Mila

 

[Brute]

What's the ratio of cast where PB is actually useful?
So far.. Useless: Brad, Lisa, Lei Fang
Useful: Mila

Sorry, are you talking PB or PL?

 

[Chapstick]

What's the ratio of cast where PB is actually useful?
So far.. Useless: Brad, Lisa, Lei Fang
Useful: Mila

Assuming you meant PL

http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/doa5u-brad-wong-power-launcher-combo-video.5801/
http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/doa5u-lisa-power-launcher-combo-video.5458/
http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/doa5u-leifang-power-launcher-combo-video.5657/

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

Sorry, are you talking PB or PL?

hes obviously talking about Peanut butter

 

[Argentus]

seriously i never use power launchers online

There's no need or reason to. That's my issue with pls. They are superfluous.

 

[Tones]

Cheers @Chapstick

Right, so Power Baunchers are only worth it if they counter but you manage a CB and with most characters you can get 15-20 damage extra (which is alright).

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0IKuhBaG01pQI9ud2QL8IBt0MCacGH8t

I got a question now, how long does it take for one to get the juggles down in the lab and also to be able to use it under pressure?

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Cheers @Chapstick

Right, so Power Baunchers are only worth it if they counter but you manage a CB and with most characters you can get 15-20 damage extra (which is alright).

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0IKuhBaG01pQI9ud2QL8IBt0MCacGH8t

I got a question now, how long does it take for one to get the juggles down in the lab and also to be able to use it under pressure?

Its really not so hard, every character has zero timing juggles. While not max damage, they tend to be risk free and more damaging than PBs.

I particularly like them indoors, especially when combined with a wall splat or a window or floor .. careful when the floor is broken though, you might lose some damage potential.

 

[Mailifang]

Power launchers is just a gimmick that's barely useful. Certain characters benefit from using them more than others in certain situations. I've been playing DOA since the first game and DOA never needed so many fricking game play gimmicks that it has now.

*Critical burst is useful.But it kinda lessens the high risk high reward aspect that DOA as a series is known for. Especially considering that counter holds dmg does not do as much dmg as it did in the past.And the window is shorter and the delay when you whiff a counter is longer. Add to the fact DOA5 is so offensively momentum based and stun heavy and your looking at a game based around offensive pressure.poking for heavy stuns,mix ups and max dmg. Since when did DOA turn into Tekken.


*Power Blows are just entertaining and add to the fun factor of the game. It was meant to be a come back game play option.But now its just used for offensive finishing purposes.

The standard of fighting games have changed.I get it.They are no longer a thinking person game it comes down to Flashyness some technicalities,reaction,execution, and dmg output.

 

[Tones]

Its really not so hard, every character has zero timing juggles. While not max damage, they tend to be risk free and more damaging than PBs.

I particularly like them indoors, especially when combined with a wall splat or a window or floor .. careful when the floor is broken though, you might lose some damage potential.

Considering the pressure to the situation where PL is the only option that will crush. You're pretty much dead, you manage a CB on him, you know if you don't screw up your PL juggle you've got the round in the bag.

For that 10-20 extra damage, wouldn't you be better of training to counter on reaction wake up kicks or baiting whiffs? Or how about land a PB on guard to get a free i15 attack and get to keep your PB/PL.

I'm not sure if you're trolling @Mailifang . Fighting games are pretty aspie appealing with all the dial a combos. Online will always favour offensive. What discredits what you said last is that the whole argument everyone mentions here is the risk-reward ratio. I think PL is gimmicky but with the help of some people here I've been able to expand my opinion to see that PL does have it's advantages (I'm still bias to my original view).

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Considering the pressure to the situation where PL is the only option that will crush. You're pretty much dead, you manage a CB on him, you know if you don't screw up your PL juggle you've got the round in the bag.

For that 10-20 extra damage, wouldn't you be better of training to counter on reaction wake up kicks or baiting whiffs? Or how about land a PB on guard to get a free i15 attack and get to keep your PB/PL.

I'm not sure if you're trolling @Mailifang . Fighting games are pretty aspie appealing with all the dial a combos. Online will always favour offensive. What discredits what you said last is that the whole argument everyone mentions here is the risk-reward ratio. I think PL is gimmicky but with the help of some people here I've been able to expand my opinion to see that PL does have it's advantages (I'm still bias to my original view).

No, it wouldnt... and for one main reason:
Those 10-20 extra bits of damage are GUARANTEED. Relying on a mix-up to achieve the same result requires RISK. Why take a risk when you can GUARANTEE something?

Sacrificing 10-20 DMG is no joke, hell sacrificing 1 DMG isnt a joke. That is why you go for the Max damage in a juggle. Why would you ever go for any less ??

A simple example would be Lei Fang's air juggles with PP6PP and PP6PK ... 6PP ender simply does more damage.. I have no reason to do the other (Although, recently depending on the match-up, if the opponent is faster or has better frame advantage I can consider the 6PK ender for an unholdable setup to keep the momentum going especially in wide stages. But, in 90% of the time 6PP is superior as it also grants wall splat as well)

 

[Mailifang]

Considering the pressure to the situation where PL is the only option that will crush. You're pretty much dead, you manage a CB on him, you know if you don't screw up your PL juggle you've got the round in the bag.

For that 10-20 extra damage, wouldn't you be better of training to counter on reaction wake up kicks or baiting whiffs? Or how about land a PB on guard to get a free i15 attack and get to keep your PB/PL.

I'm not sure if you're trolling @Mailifang . Fighting games are pretty aspie appealing with all the dial a combos. Online will always favour offensive. What discredits what you said last is that the whole argument everyone mentions here is the risk-reward ratio. I think PL is gimmicky but with the help of some people here I've been able to expand my opinion to see that PL does have it's advantages (I'm still bias to my original view).

No I was being serious.And its just my opinion. There was higher risk and reward in earlier DOA games.Not so much in DOA5.We discussed this pretty heatedly last year. I still feel PL is gimmicky no matter what "theory fighters" or" strat nerds " or what a few in high level community says. Its clunky,its slow, the animation when it happens is awkward, and not many people use it because its a conditional move. Can PL be useful?Sure if you want it to be. Do you have to use it and is it essential to playing the game?No. But that's just my opinion.I feel over time its either gonna get improved or removed.

 

[Argentus]

Power launchers is just a gimmick that's barely useful. Certain characters benefit from using them more than others in certain situations. I've been playing DOA since the first game and DOA never needed so many fricking game play gimmicks that it has now.

*Critical burst is useful.But it kinda lessens the high risk high reward aspect that DOA as a series is known for. Especially considering that counter holds dmg does not do as much dmg as it did in the past.And the window is shorter and the delay when you whiff a counter is longer. Add to the fact DOA5 is so offensively momentum based and stun heavy and your looking at a game based around offensive pressure.poking for heavy stuns,mix ups and max dmg. Since when did DOA turn into Tekken.


*Power Blows are just entertaining and add to the fun factor of the game. It was meant to be a come back game play option.But now its just used for offensive finishing purposes.

The standard of fighting games have changed.I get it.They are no longer a thinking person game it comes down to Flashyness some technicalities,reaction,execution, and dmg output.

Exactly.

Too much focus on combos, too little on combat.

As emp said, people just want guaranteed damage for everything, they don't want any risk in their fights (how much of an oxymoron is that?!)

One of my biggest gripes towards pb pl cb nonsense, is that it encourages that whole "just memorize this button input and you won't even have to try anymore, its guaranteed damage!"mentality. I wanna see fighting and thinking and outmaneuvering and prowess in my fighting games.

Instead, 85% of the time I see people just trying to spam guaranteed damage combos.

This is why I wish I had the resources to design my own fighter

 

[Chapstick]

Especially considering that counter holds dmg does not do as much dmg as it did in the past.And the window is shorter and the delay when you whiff a counter is longer.

This is a good thing. ._. I don't see why it wouldn't be, they were so dumb before. 3 holds and KO (a few characters can still do this)

Exactly.

Too much focus on combos, too little on combat.

As emp said, people just want guaranteed damage for everything, they don't want any risk in their fights (how much of an oxymoron is that?!)

One of my biggest gripes towards pb pl cb nonsense, is that it encourages that whole "just memorize this button input and you won't even have to try anymore, its guaranteed damage!"mentality. I wanna see fighting and thinking and outmaneuvering and prowess in my fighting games.

Instead, 85% of the time I see people just trying to spam guaranteed damage combos.

This is why I wish I had the resources to design my own fighter

Why do you use 3H+K into guaranteed mount then

 

[Mailifang]

This is a good thing. ._. I don't see why it wouldn't be, they were so dumb before. 3 holds and KO (a few characters can still do this)

I consider it a bad thing because without that "fear" of being countered players can just mash or apply offensive pressure all day with no real fear of losing from being counered. DOA5 sidestep isn't as good as VF5. And DOA5 doesn't have enough options on defense as to totally offset the options on offense.

The countering system is what separated DOA from every other game as far as game play mechanics. It forced players to think and plan their offense.Now its just use offensive pressure to get a a stun,force a counter, and punish. I wanna fight not a combo exhibition. DOA was built around the counter mind games. DOA5 is just a light weight VF5 that caters to the offense minded FGC. But that's most fighting games these days.

 

[Argentus]

This is a good thing. ._. I don't see why it wouldn't be, they were so dumb before. 3 holds and KO (a few characters can still do this)

Why do you use 3H+K into guaranteed mount then

*tries to think what 3hk means*

...somersault? Damage isn't guaranteed, people can break out of mounts. I mostly do it to interrupt rushdow .

I consider it a bad thing because without that "fear" of being countered players can just mash or apply offensive pressure all day with no real fear of losing from being counered. DOA5 sidestep isn't as good as VF5. And DOA5 doesn't have enough options on defense as to totally offset the options on offense.

The countering system is what separated DOA from every other game as far as game play mechanics. It forced players to think and plan their offense.Now its just use offensive pressure to get a a stun,force a counter, and punish. I wanna fight not a combo exhibition. DOA was built around the counter mind games. DOA5 is just a light weight VF5 that caters to the offense minded FGC. But that's most fighting games these days.

*cries tears of joy* someone else is looking at the big picture ohmigod yes!

I've literally been saying that for years, but its always on deaf ears.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

I honestly prefer PL´s 1000 times over PB's.

 

[Brute]

*tries to think what 3hk means*

...somersault? Damage isn't guaranteed, people can break out of mounts. I mostly do it to interrupt rushdow .

Correction: Damage is guaranteed when just-framed.
Breaking out of it requires then that the attacker (Mila) mess-up. By that logic, you can "break" Lisa's Deja Vu if the attacker messes up their inputs.

And considering that a Mila player should know her timing better than the opponent, the attacker should by default have a much higher chance of success even if they're not just-framing it, not to mention that if each person same-frames the button the attacker (Mila) will win out. And even if it is broken because the Mila player sucks at hitting buttons, she's left a neutral frames, with a very scary neutral game. And of course, she has a million ways to get into this damn thing, many of them guaranteed. Like after her generic-ass holds. Including critical holds, which won't scale the damage revision.

So yes, the mount is fucking bullshit and that's that.