Jadeinchains
Well-Known Member
Can you even objectify someone who isn't real?!
Also I am sure there must be lesbians who enjoy the scantily clad women.
Also I am sure there must be lesbians who enjoy the scantily clad women.
DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?
- Thread starter werewolfgold
- Start date
werewolfgold
Well-Known Member
I'll be honest. It took me a good five minutes to figure out what the hell this was. lol
Technically, yeah. In the sense that you have the concept of a woman being reduced to an object.Some people don't buy it, but you know. For the sake of argument. Some people get reeeally into fictional characters to where they consider them real as you may know.
I would think so. Hopefully, they find this topic and chime in.
Last edited:
@werewolfgold
We are very, very irresponsible? Oh, wise adult, I do sincerely apologize for our ignorance. I will do my very best to hide myself and every friend or family member that is deemed 'too attractive' for the good of the insecure, infantile, and blatantly pathetic populace. Perhaps I should grow a large beard and have the attractive women wear a burqa.
People are envious of any attractive individual they see, which makes them reflect upon themselves. Media or not, this always happens and it is unavoidable. These infantalized, hapless saps are NOT DOA's target demographic. They are NOT the audience. It is like traveling to China and crying "WHY IS NO ONE SPEAKING ENGLISH?" The world does not revolve around you infantile "adults." T'would be wise to just buy a giant bubble and live within it since the world is oh-so dangerous. ...or people can grow a fucking spine. I can prance along to a gym and cry to everyone how muscular they are and how they make me feel bad about myself.
Boo hoo....
*sniff*
...but let's go through your sources and see what's what:
1: The study specifies MASS media. I am sorry, I didn't know that DOA was targeted to women. This study is more relevant to your everyday Victoria's Secret catalogue or any catalogue for any clothing line. (I even argue in defense of that.) The study has a small sample size of 77 women. It does not define their age nor their ethnicity. It does NOT state the duration of the study and nothing can be garnered from this abstract. Therefore, irrelevant.
2: The study is from 1977 and it refers to women working in the media. This article is irrelevant because it lacks recency, something anyone knows is very important when it comes to applying research to current events. Guess what? Women have an equal opportunity within the media. Considering the age of the internet, with abilities to blog and using mediums such as Youtube, there is no excuse. Anyone's voice can be heard.
3: Amazing. You've proved to me that human beings are sexually di-morphic. Women are depicted sexually and men are depicted violently. Why? Because video games are primarily male dominated. Men created and nurtured games during the industry's infancy. Men created this culture. That is why more men are in the industry and more men are considered "hardcore" gamers. Have you forgotten that gaming was once considered a deviation? Now women want in - and they have every capability to do so. Do you know how one makes the games culture more inclusive? Have women or white knights make games that THEY wish to play. No one can stop them. They are even encouraged to do so since it bolsters the economy with variety. THIS DOES NOT mean that you SJWs can change works of art that are not even meant for you in the first place.
Point of the matter is, too bad, so sad.
The majority wins when it comes to business and products. Don't like the DLC costumes? Don't buy them. Otherwise, too bad, so sad.
The way you are sounding is no different from the group of men and women that led to Target and K-Mart in Australia and New Zealand to take GTA5 off the shelves because of "violence against women and their objectification." No different from the folks who led a disgusting outcry against Bayonetta 2 when it was released (and the character designer for her was a woman.) No different from the fine folks who bullied astrophysicist Matt Taylor for a fucking shirt that he wore after he had LANDED A SPACECRAFT ON A FUCKING COMET.
There is nothing more obnoxious than social justice warriors trying to manipulate society. Still, the market decides what stays and what goes in the United States. Therefore, if people keep purchasing the costumes and those beach videos, they will be here to stay -
...and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I am not an MRA. I am not a feminist. I am an egalitarian. I am also a libertarian. I believe in freedom of expression and the equality of opportunity.
You reap what you sow.
...and you will reap nothing after sowing tears.
That's all I have to say.
We are very, very irresponsible? Oh, wise adult, I do sincerely apologize for our ignorance. I will do my very best to hide myself and every friend or family member that is deemed 'too attractive' for the good of the insecure, infantile, and blatantly pathetic populace. Perhaps I should grow a large beard and have the attractive women wear a burqa.
People are envious of any attractive individual they see, which makes them reflect upon themselves. Media or not, this always happens and it is unavoidable. These infantalized, hapless saps are NOT DOA's target demographic. They are NOT the audience. It is like traveling to China and crying "WHY IS NO ONE SPEAKING ENGLISH?" The world does not revolve around you infantile "adults." T'would be wise to just buy a giant bubble and live within it since the world is oh-so dangerous. ...or people can grow a fucking spine. I can prance along to a gym and cry to everyone how muscular they are and how they make me feel bad about myself.
Boo hoo....*sniff*
...but let's go through your sources and see what's what:
1: The study specifies MASS media. I am sorry, I didn't know that DOA was targeted to women. This study is more relevant to your everyday Victoria's Secret catalogue or any catalogue for any clothing line. (I even argue in defense of that.) The study has a small sample size of 77 women. It does not define their age nor their ethnicity. It does NOT state the duration of the study and nothing can be garnered from this abstract. Therefore, irrelevant.
2: The study is from 1977 and it refers to women working in the media. This article is irrelevant because it lacks recency, something anyone knows is very important when it comes to applying research to current events. Guess what? Women have an equal opportunity within the media. Considering the age of the internet, with abilities to blog and using mediums such as Youtube, there is no excuse. Anyone's voice can be heard.
3: Amazing. You've proved to me that human beings are sexually di-morphic. Women are depicted sexually and men are depicted violently. Why? Because video games are primarily male dominated. Men created and nurtured games during the industry's infancy. Men created this culture. That is why more men are in the industry and more men are considered "hardcore" gamers. Have you forgotten that gaming was once considered a deviation? Now women want in - and they have every capability to do so. Do you know how one makes the games culture more inclusive? Have women or white knights make games that THEY wish to play. No one can stop them. They are even encouraged to do so since it bolsters the economy with variety. THIS DOES NOT mean that you SJWs can change works of art that are not even meant for you in the first place.
Point of the matter is, too bad, so sad.
The majority wins when it comes to business and products. Don't like the DLC costumes? Don't buy them. Otherwise, too bad, so sad.
The way you are sounding is no different from the group of men and women that led to Target and K-Mart in Australia and New Zealand to take GTA5 off the shelves because of "violence against women and their objectification." No different from the folks who led a disgusting outcry against Bayonetta 2 when it was released (and the character designer for her was a woman.) No different from the fine folks who bullied astrophysicist Matt Taylor for a fucking shirt that he wore after he had LANDED A SPACECRAFT ON A FUCKING COMET.
There is nothing more obnoxious than social justice warriors trying to manipulate society. Still, the market decides what stays and what goes in the United States. Therefore, if people keep purchasing the costumes and those beach videos, they will be here to stay -
...and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I am not an MRA. I am not a feminist. I am an egalitarian. I am also a libertarian. I believe in freedom of expression and the equality of opportunity.
You reap what you sow.
...and you will reap nothing after sowing tears.
That's all I have to say.
Malfury
Active Member
I must be the only DOA fan that is trying to be optimistic about what TN is trying to bring us in DOA5:LR instead of worthless outfits you don't even need. I didn't even know about them adding better jiggle mechanics, but I'm sure most people will spend their time playing friends and sharpening their tools than worrying about how much jiggle they can get in a combo.
Hayabusiness
Well-Known Member
I am happy about LR too (even if I won't be playing the PS4 version for a long time, missing the new stages is really a let down, I was sincerely hyped before the stages getting cut), but yeah, TN did do a bunch of talks about the new breast physics engine and how the new girl will use it at maximum blast processing power
It's so silly! No wonder people make so much fun of DOA
Jadeinchains
Well-Known Member
@werewolfgold
We are very, very irresponsible? Oh, wise adult, I do sincerely apologize for our ignorance. I will do my very best to hide myself and every friend or family member that is deemed 'too attractive' for the good of the insecure, infantile, and blatantly pathetic populace. Perhaps I should grow a large beard and have the attractive women wear a burqa.
People are envious of any attractive individual they see, which makes them reflect upon themselves. Media or not, this always happens and it is unavoidable. These infantalized, hapless saps are NOT DOA's target demographic. They are NOT the audience. It is like traveling to China and crying "WHY IS NO ONE SPEAKING ENGLISH?" The world does not revolve around you infantile "adults." T'would be wise to just buy a giant bubble and live within it since the world is oh-so dangerous. ...or people can grow a fucking spine. I can prance along to a gym and cry to everyone how muscular they are and how they make me feel bad about myself.
*sniff*
...but let's go through your sources and see what's what:
1: The study specifies MASS media. I am sorry, I didn't know that DOA was targeted to women. This study is more relevant to your everyday Victoria's Secret catalogue or any catalogue for any clothing line. (I even argue in defense of that.) The study has a small sample size of 77 women. It does not define their age nor their ethnicity. It does NOT state the duration of the study and nothing can be garnered from this abstract. Therefore, irrelevant.
2: The study is from 1977 and it refers to women working in the media. This article is irrelevant because it lacks recency, something anyone knows is very important when it comes to applying research to current events. Guess what? Women have an equal opportunity within the media. Considering the age of the internet, with abilities to blog and using mediums such as Youtube, there is no excuse. Anyone's voice can be heard.
3: Amazing. You've proved to me that human beings are sexually di-morphic. Women are depicted sexually and men are depicted violently. Why? Because video games are primarily male dominated. Men created and nurtured games during the industry's infancy. Men created this culture. That is why more men are in the industry and more men are considered "hardcore" gamers. Have you forgotten that gaming was once considered a deviation? Now women want in - and they have every capability to do so. Do you know how one makes the games culture more inclusive? Have women or white knights make games that THEY wish to play. No one can stop them. They are even encouraged to do so since it bolsters the economy with variety. THIS DOES NOT mean that you SJWs can change works of art that are not even meant for you in the first place.
Point of the matter is, too bad, so sad.
The majority wins when it comes to business and products. Don't like the DLC costumes? Don't buy them. Otherwise, too bad, so sad.
The way you are sounding is no different from the group of men and women that led to Target and K-Mart in Australia and New Zealand to take GTA5 off the shelves because of "violence against women and their objectification." No different from the folks who led a disgusting outcry against Bayonetta 2 when it was released (and the character designer for her was a woman.) No different from the fine folks who bullied astrophysicist Matt Taylor for a fucking shirt that he wore after he had LANDED A SPACECRAFT ON A FUCKING COMET.
There is nothing more obnoxious than social justice warriors trying to manipulate society. Still, the market decides what stays and what goes in the United States. Therefore, if people keep purchasing the costumes and those beach videos, they will be here to stay -
...and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
I am not an MRA. I am not a feminist. I am an egalitarian. I am also a libertarian. I believe in freedom of expression and the equality of opportunity.
You reap what you sow.
...and you will reap nothing after sowing tears.
That's all I have to say.
Amen to the SJW and feminist bit!
Tumblr is full of morons who think things like the real victims of homophobia is straight women because "gay men checking out straight men is the same way women feel when men "eye rape" them".
But when it comes to doa it really is just a matter of cultural difference. In Japan almost all female characters have big boobs that are exposed. People just have to deal with it because it clearly works from a business standpoint.
PS: This is coming from someone who likes the girls in more conservative attire.
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
I have a few serious questions, from a marketing approach.
Don't you think DOA has a large gay community, larger than any other fighter? That's something I've noticed but I'm not sure.
If that's the case, why wouldn't TN use it by sexualizing the male cast a bit more ?
There need to be a market study to identify new customers, and the whole cast have perfect bodies, could be interesting.
Don't you think DOA has a large gay community, larger than any other fighter? That's something I've noticed but I'm not sure.
If that's the case, why wouldn't TN use it by sexualizing the male cast a bit more ?
There need to be a market study to identify new customers, and the whole cast have perfect bodies, could be interesting.
There are quite a lot of gay players, but if you notice, majority of them use female characters as their mains. I'm bisexual, but I love Ayane. The females are gorgeous and kick ass, something that I like. The male characters, aside from Brad Wong and Eliot, bore me to tears. And also, while I may like muscles, the unrealistic muscles found on most fighting game males do not turn me on. Though in DOA5U, it's clear that Ein is the closest thing we get to a sexualized male. Also, most of the males in DOA5 aren't attractive to me, personally. Brad Wong looked way hotter in DOA4 though and Eliot is too "prettt boy" for my tastes. But at least the males do have some sexualized outfits that show off their bodies, the biggest example being the MMA DLC released during vanilla DOA.
Number 13
Well-Known Member
They already do that with Ein and a few other males.
CFW
Well-Known Member
Look @ Dragon Age reactions. Don't wanna damage the straight man's ego amirite?????????
Hayabusiness
Well-Known Member
I don't know guys... this thread wasn't about SJWs, White Knights, objectification, etc, and if it was, I'm not even sure if that was the main point...
It seemed everyone has been VERY careful to not drop those words around and keep an eye on the main subject, but now the topic has switched from "I think this fanservice is overdoing it, what do YOU think?" to "SJWs want to manipulate everyone!!1". I was so happy to not see Anita Sarkeesian's smug mug for once, but no.
WHY, why when we talk about sexyness in videogames these words must ALWAYS pop out? And other people must call others SJWs... or White Knights... etc, even if what they said is far from stupid agendas.
Also I thought... what if Team NINJA is truly becoming a parody of themselves?
Gay DOA fans are not as much as the hetero ones, but the gay community is still recognized, and I'm glad about it.
I'm still weirded out at how TN doesn't jump at the chance of making a bit more money by publicizing Ein, Bayman, Rig, etc. The DOA guys are just as attractive as the girls (not modeled as well but DOA5 really has some of the most handsome men in videogames), and are sexualized too (have you seen certain losing poses? Some of the outfits?), so, why not add more male fanservice?
Rig's entries for both design contests were very fanservice, you can see there can be a market and it could be broaded...
I'd be okay with as long as it's well done and fits the character, same for the girls.
Also, "not overdoing it" are always keywords for me XD
It seemed everyone has been VERY careful to not drop those words around and keep an eye on the main subject, but now the topic has switched from "I think this fanservice is overdoing it, what do YOU think?" to "SJWs want to manipulate everyone!!1". I was so happy to not see Anita Sarkeesian's smug mug for once, but no.
WHY, why when we talk about sexyness in videogames these words must ALWAYS pop out? And other people must call others SJWs... or White Knights... etc, even if what they said is far from stupid agendas.
Also I thought... what if Team NINJA is truly becoming a parody of themselves?
Gay DOA fans are not as much as the hetero ones, but the gay community is still recognized, and I'm glad about it.
I'm still weirded out at how TN doesn't jump at the chance of making a bit more money by publicizing Ein, Bayman, Rig, etc. The DOA guys are just as attractive as the girls (not modeled as well but DOA5 really has some of the most handsome men in videogames), and are sexualized too (have you seen certain losing poses? Some of the outfits?), so, why not add more male fanservice?
Rig's entries for both design contests were very fanservice, you can see there can be a market and it could be broaded...
I'd be okay with as long as it's well done and fits the character, same for the girls.
Also, "not overdoing it" are always keywords for me XD
Now I have pictures in my mind of all the guys minus Gen Fu getting copypasta bouncer outfits
And then sexy cops.
And then sexy waiters (copypasted from the bouncers).
And then tropical sexy swimsuits.
And then sexy leather.
And then sexy suspenders.
All with the looming ghost of copypasta.
And then sexy cops.
And then sexy waiters (copypasted from the bouncers).
And then tropical sexy swimsuits.
And then sexy leather.
And then sexy suspenders.
All with the looming ghost of copypasta.
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your answers. It supports my idea.
Conclusion is that :
- they are already trying to do it with Ein for instance ("gay" version of Hayate in some costumes, no offense)
- they are trying to create some male costumes lately (Rig/Bass in the Cops Pack, Ein/Hayate in the Xmas one)
- they should do it more often because based on the different costume contests and last DLCs, it is requested and it sells!
Conclusion is that :
- they are already trying to do it with Ein for instance ("gay" version of Hayate in some costumes, no offense)
- they are trying to create some male costumes lately (Rig/Bass in the Cops Pack, Ein/Hayate in the Xmas one)
- they should do it more often because based on the different costume contests and last DLCs, it is requested and it sells!
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
They tried with the male characters. It was the fighters pack. It likely didn't sell very well or else they wouldn't have stopped.
The saddest part is that TN did it because people kept begging for it despite their own (correct) belief that it would sell poorly and even with their decision to price it at 50% of the other packs, it didn't sell enough to convince TN to keep doing it. And yet, they are again adding males to the fetish stuff even though it's clear it won't sell. TN really doesn't get enough credit for what they already do to appease the minority that wants male fetish dlc.
The saddest part is that TN did it because people kept begging for it despite their own (correct) belief that it would sell poorly and even with their decision to price it at 50% of the other packs, it didn't sell enough to convince TN to keep doing it. And yet, they are again adding males to the fetish stuff even though it's clear it won't sell. TN really doesn't get enough credit for what they already do to appease the minority that wants male fetish dlc.
Xhominid The Demon Within
Well-Known Member
Acting like it didn't with the PC version...
Yeah, ignore Tom Lee and the other producers who are on the fence. And lets ignore the advertisements for SCV, it makes your argument that much stronger...
Shit, Hayashi is a known pervert as was Itagaki, it's acting as if basically you NEVER saw that coming...
From what I heard from X-Play, DOA actually has a large LESBIAN fanbase. I'm not sure of Gay men are just as big or the Lesbian fanbase is bigger.
This...
they also tried less revealing DLC when 5U came out (well minus the pre-order bikinis) with more than 3-4 different models for 12 chars... but that either did not sell enough, or at least was not worth the extra effort. There is a reason why we did not get more legacy and casual packs... and it's not lack of creativity, nor laziness... and as much as people want to believe it, it's not just the Japanese audience either.
PS: I still think those TGS interviews are blown out of proportion... there simply wasn't much to talk about and the only finalized feature they wanted to reveal was the Soft Engine stuff. They do not market that feature as aggressively as posts here lead you to believe, not in Japan and certainly not in the rest of the world.
Yeah and that thread went downhill pretty fast after that "the game is sexist" comment lol
Last edited:
PhoenixVFIRE
Well-Known Member
Okay, and just because it's gotten worse or not in other games, again, doesn't negate the overall objectification.
The reason why DOA is the most attacked for this kind of thing is because it's been ALL of the female characters in the game since the beginning, not just a couple, and the fact that Boob physics is a thing. Not just any thing either, an important part of their game that they actually spend a lot of resources on just to get the most realistic boob engine. DOA has always been the one taking objectification in fighting games to the limit, the only other game I would put near this level is Mortal Kombat, but people don't notice it there as much because all people can see is gore and blood 90% of the time.
Bringing up other games doing it means nothing, this is about DOA, not them. They're just as guilty for it, people just don't notice it as much because of what I said above.
Malfury
Active Member
Well, KoF had a huge female fanbase in the 90's and early 00's and they still weren't targeted. I guess some companies don't really see these of communities since they aren't typically so vocal.
Malfury
Active Member
Good to know TN is staying true and strong to their beliefs. If they suddenly changed cause of a vocal few, then I can say the majority of the players who enjoyed DOA since the beginning and know what it's all about would see TN as a bunch of spineless cowards. And at a business standpoint, I think that could be worse.
werewolfgold
Well-Known Member
BRUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, that was a joke. I made the joke because you started veering into sarcasm and hyperbole.
And maybe you should calm down a tad. I just pulled up a list of stuff through Google and and pulled one off the list. At the time, I was doing three different things at once and didn't have time to go back and find all of the ones that I've read during school. If the one I chose at random talked about 1977, that's indeed my fault. I could actually take hours out of my day to go find them, but it wouldn't matter anyway so I won't. I definitely won't now because I'm on my work break. But, anyway, I never tried to paint DOA as anything but a small piece of a greater whole.
If you are unable to discern the difference, that's on you.
Very well. If you're going to unironically start talking about SJWs coming to get us, then I'm kind of done talking with you. This topic wasn't quite about that in the first place. I deliberately chose not to smack DOA with the label of sexist going in, though people are free to think that it is and argue the point, I suppose. Though people just trot out the same repeated ad nauseum arguments and each side will just like each other's posts, the conversation won't evolve, and no one will change their mind anyway. So, screw it.
TN can do what it wants if they find it profitable. But, I made this topic because people were angry and some even talking about leaving the franchise. And then there always have been people being kept away from the franchise. You don't think businesses have to be concerned with that? Whatever. Don't answer. You have nothing more to say, right? We're done. Buh-bye. I'mma go back to sowing tears, now.
I dunno. Did it? I don't have the PC version. Was it officially released by Capcom? Because that is a distinction.
Perhaps they don't get enough credit for it. But, it still must be said that it only happened because people bothered to speak up. It's not like nobody bought them. And at the rate that they crank out other copypasta stuff at exorbitant prices that still manage to sell like hotcakes (for some reason), they can likely afford to throw the minority a bone every once in a while. Those people are still fans, after all. If TN doesn't care, hell, we can probably just expect all the guys minus Ryu and Hayate to just be removed in the next game. And also Lisa, Christie, and Rachel. I'm sure the fans wouldn't mind that, right? They don't care about those characters apparently...
Last edited: