DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

[His Reverence]

Accumulating an asston of likes, obviously.

Fascinating.

Well, I hope you know that the initial goal was not to accumulate an asston of likes, it WAS to make points in order to serve food for thought.

Ironically, what really derailed this thread is this conversation that we are having now with snarky comments such as "accumulating an asston of likes, obviously."

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Because I have more likes than you.

That's not fair you're a mod, you have the ability to ban people of course they would give you likes...
loljk.

 

[Brute]

Fascinating.

Well, I hope you know that the initial goal was not to accumulate an asston of likes, it WAS to make points in order to serve food for thought.

Ironically, what really derailed this thread is this conversation that we are having now with snarky comments such as "accumulating an asston of likes, obviously."

I have essentially created two strawmen, both of which were attacked or missed simply in the spirit of the dialectic (they were actually covertly on-topic through subtle allusion, but I honestly can't say that I was expecting them to be read as such so we'll just go with: "they were strawmen"). The spirit in here isn't to educate the community on social issues. The main function, as @Malfury indicated, was for people to say their piece on the topic in a place that it would be read by public eyes and not cut short by being "off-topic." This way the main views could be laid out in one area, and future threads/discussions wouldn't continue to be burdened with passive and active jabs at it (I'm looking at you, costume threads).

At some point, it was hijacked by the "I want to debate" crowd. And that's fine, even if the DOA community is an odd area to select for that. But, when that's the end goal, it becomes problematic since nowhere in that is the objective to end whatsoever. And so everyone makes the same two arguments reworded in different forms over and over again with no foreseeable end on the horizon. In turn, I keep getting pulled back into this thread by people asking me to calm things down, lock it, or voice my personal opinion on the matter (which I do not want to do, given the obvious futility of it).

So I'm left to decide what should be done to generate the least amount of community grievance. Having people lose interest and abandon the thread without having to take staff action and forcibly lock it is the preferable solution (I don't like to censor people's opinions when unnecessary, regardless what my stance on the opinions in question may be). That way no one feels like their views are being stamped out and simultaneously everyone who does not particularly enjoy the thread is no longer labored with it, directly or indirectly.

So yes, I prefer "snarky comments" that: A) Keep the tone light and less directly aggressive, and B) Say what I just said in a lot less words, if properly deduced. I think most people on this forum recognize by know that my snarkiness is typically objective in some way, and rarely serves as mere tomfoolery.

 

[werewolfgold]

@werewolfgold

...and no one is raging. I just really get into debates. Watch that video from 8:00. It is relevant.

I suppose it is tangentially relevant (more so to things that happened within the topic and not really to the topic premise itself) and I found it to be interesting. I would invite other people to watch it if they have the time, as she seems like a cool lady, but I don't think anything in this thread should really revolve around it going forward.

 

[DestructionBomb]

It was derailed the moment it went into history about sexism. I'm also sure in medieval times they had a copy of DOA5U and no internet access to buy costumes with the added bonus of stoning players to death for Lisa's strap.

Topic question asks:
DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

- People have answered yes, people have answered no. *For DOA5*

- People are suppose to explain why it's too much or why it's not too much. There is only a few in here that's been doing that and going on topic. *For DOA5*

- People buy this game for different reasons. Some people just wants to accept things the way they are and continue playing the game as they see fit. It's up to them to take them serious or not. *For DOA5*

But now it's become more complicated than it seems.

 

[His Reverence]

@Brute fair enough but then one wonders what the purpose of a discussion is in the first place. Certainly 'venting' is a terrible purpose alone.

...and if your comments were misinterpretted, I apologize. That being said, they were difficult to interpret.

@werewolfgold it wasn't meant to be the center of a conversation. The video served as a suppliment. I am glad you found it interesting.

@DestructionBomb Well it is more complicated then that. If it wasn't, it would not have warrented a thread in the first place. Questions like "is it too much" can't be answered with a mere yes or no. In that case, a poll would have done fine.

These are serious questions and they warrant serious answers. When supporters of the game's direction, and the game itself, are labelled as sexist, that warrants a "history lesson."

 

[werewolfgold]

In that case, a poll would have done fine.

Beeteedubs, added a poll. lol

Though, probably no one is going to vote in it after all this time...

 

[DestructionBomb]

@Brute fair enough but then one wonders what the purpose of a discussion is in the first place. Certainly 'venting' is a terrible purpose alone.

...and if your comments were misinterpretted, I apologize. That being said, they were difficult to interpret.

@werewolfgold it wasn't meant to be the center of a conversation. The video served as a suppliment. I am glad you found it interesting.

@DestructionBomb Well it is more complicated then that. If it wasn't, it would not have warrented a thread in the first place. Questions like "is it too much" can't be answered with a mere yes or no. In that case, a poll would have done fine.

These are serious questions and they warrant serious answers. When supporters of the game's direction, and the game itself, are labelled as sexist, that warrants a "history lesson."

I can agree with a poll option, it's still a difficult situation to make one though since people want to tell others why it is and why it's not. Not to mention that polls can be lopsided since people do in fact lie and just want to join a bandwagon of X person because of friends or whatever the case may be.

So to make it in a basis level...They answer the question+vote on the poll and make a short paragraph as to why they think it's not too much or why it's too much. If it's too much to explain, have them narrow it down to simpler terms. A "yes" alone doesn't really cut it and cannot be a base solution to why it's too much. We can't have a individual say "Yes I think it's too much." and then just leave without explaining why. If this was a data spreadsheet we would thank them for their input but you can't really add them into a system of total amount of people that picked yes.

It only becomes complicated when you make it complicated. Topic asks a question? They answer it. Going into sexism definition and history won't solve DOA's case since it's just problematic. That's only on a personal case for this game in it's entirety.

 

[His Reverence]

@DestructionBomb a topic becomes complicated when it is an inherently complicated topic. I think that the lengths of our posts have been fine. There are no character limits and this is a forum so... we converse at a pace most reasonable to the said topic.

I was not the first person to have a long post. There is a reason why folk couldn't condense it to a single paragraph.

@werewolfgold
Let's be honest, a poll this late in the thread serves no purpose. It wont reflect anything close to what it could have initially.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I didn't say to make it simpler on where they have character limits on typing. The problem with the "length" of these posts is that most of them have become of history lesson about sexists and how it created the dinosaurs from scratch. Like I said before, it becomes complicated when you make it complicated, It became complicated.

Yes it's a forum, but it was strictly suppose to be a DOA forum. The board is in the Dead or Alive 5 LR General discussion. You can't just converse and assume most things written is reasonable to be thrown in here.

You are not the first person to have a long post, but people can get easily sidetracked just to get a point across.

 

[His Reverence]

I didn't say to make it simpler on where they have character limits on typing. The problem with the "length" of these posts is that most of them have become of history lesson about sexists and how it created the dinosaurs from scratch. Like I said before, it becomes complicated when you make it complicated, It became complicated.

Yes it's a forum, but it was strictly suppose to be a DOA forum. The board is in the Dead or Alive 5 LR General discussion. You can't just converse and assume most things written is reasonable to be thrown in here.

You are not the first person to have a long post, but people can get easily sidetracked just to get a point across.

No one is getting sidetracked. All of these things pertain to the topic at hand, which is DOA's sexuality. Everything that you consider to be off-topic is supplemental to the arguments being made. If you do not see it as such, do not worry. My discussion was not even pertaining to you in the first place.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Anyways, back on topic or do we another scapegoat from gamergate again or to know the history of the first sexist warrior from the dark ages? I'm sure none of the points here will get through anyone since people buy this game for different reasons.

 

[His Reverence]

Well I am certainly done here.

I made all the points I wanted. Anymore time spent here will fry my neurons.

 

[Malfury]

Strawmen

I have essentially created two strawmen, both of which were attacked or missed simply in the spirit of the dialectic (they were actually covertly on-topic through subtle allusion, but I honestly can't say that I was expecting them to be read as such so we'll just go with: "they were strawmen"). The spirit in here isn't to educate the community on social issues. The main function, as @Malfury indicated, was for people to say their piece on the topic in a place that it would be read by public eyes and not cut short by being "off-topic." This way the main views could be laid out in one area, and future threads/discussions wouldn't continue to be burdened with passive and active jabs at it (I'm looking at you, costume threads).

Strawman arguments are probably why it circled out of control in the first place, lol.

 

[Argentus]

....seriously?

DOA girls uses to be strong women with solid characterizations who HAPPENED to be hot.

Come doa5, and they are just "sexy ladies", and tn tries to pretend its not even a fighting game.

Two good examples. In doa3, Christie was a sadistic but high class assassin who happened to be sexy. Come doa5 (4as well..), and she's just a big ole whore, a classic Vamp.

When they were trying to get doa5 taken more seriously, they designed milq and rig. mila was designed more like a real life girl, both in fighting style, and outfits. Then when they abandoned trying to be taken seriously in favor if slutting the game up, they completely abandoned Milas "girl next door" characterization in favor if just giving her the slutty outfits because she's friends with Tina and tina dresses like a slut so mila must be too right gaiz?!


All characterizations are thrown out the window in favor of just being generically "sexy", and its pissing a LOT of people off.



And to those offended by me using the term slut, feel free to replace it with another word. Skank, whore, hooker, skimpy, or the more PC terms "revealing" and "controversial".

For the record, bedore Mila I never cared for any of the female DOA characters, only used the guys, so the girls were never even a consideration for me.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

....seriously?

DOA girls uses to be strong women with solid characterizations who HAPPENED to be hot.

Come doa5, and they are just "sexy ladies", and tn tries to pretend its not even a fighting game.

It's funny because in almost every other fighting game, you can say the same thing about everyone else...
Zack is virtually a walking punchline now, far bigger than he was before and Hayate...dear god Hayate. Or how about the entire Virtua Fighter cast? Hell, Ryu, the most iconic FG protagonist...barely has a backstory and no real character past "I want to be the strongest".

Only recently did games like Mortal Kombat and Blazblue(and Guilty Gear but considering that it's story mode was limited to certain expansions...eh) even TRY actually giving out indepth storylines with characters that actually evolve overtime. Even Soul Calibur failed miserably at that because only a FEW characters actually changed well enough to matter throughout the series(Siegfried is the big one and that's all I can think of) and that game actually tried it's damnest.

This is not a DOA problem you are talking about Argentus, this is a Fighting Game issue that's on par with most FPS's these days.

 

[Yurlungur]

It's funny because in almost every other fighting game, you can say the same thing about everyone else...
Zack is virtually a walking punchline now, far bigger than he was before and Hayate...dear god Hayate. Or how about the entire Virtua Fighter cast? Hell, Ryu, the most iconic FG protagonist...barely has a backstory and no real character past "I want to be the strongest".

Only recently did games like Mortal Kombat and Blazblue(and Guilty Gear but considering that it's story mode was limited to certain expansions...eh) even TRY actually giving out indepth storylines with characters that actually evolve overtime. Even Soul Calibur failed miserably at that because only a FEW characters actually changed well enough to matter throughout the series(Siegfried is the big one and that's all I can think of) and that game actually tried it's damnest.

This is not a DOA problem you are talking about Argentus, this is a Fighting Game issue that's on par with most FPS's these days.

Soul calibur didn't fail, I was always attached to ivy and her story kept getting interesting as time progressed. Even when there was a time when a character got dull they spiced it up. Sophitia ended up getting a bit dull but in sc2 she spent her time trying to make sure cassandra was fine and in 3 tira came around to use her children for the cursed blade. They literally have a huge detail on stuff with the character profiles which they ended up taking out in later games. The only character that was dull after a while was Taki...yeah that's it. I literally got upset when i played sc5 and no arcade mode.

The truth is with the actual plot of five is that it was boring. Any story you can explain in a paragraph especially after a few hours is dull.

Kasumi clone runs around pretending to be kasumi and then finds out she's not a clone and then goes mental and becomes psycho wizard clone and then ninjas had to stop her with the real kasumi.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Soul calibur didn't fail, I was always attached to ivy and her story kept getting interesting as time progressed. Even when there was a time when a character got dull they spiced it up. Sophitia ended up getting a bit dull but in sc2 she spent her time trying to make sure cassandra was fine and in 3 tira came around to use her children for the cursed blade. They literally have a huge detail on stuff with the character profiles which they ended up taking out in later games. The only character that was dull after a while was Taki...yeah that's it. I literally got upset when i played sc5 and no arcade mode.

The truth is with the actual plot of five is that it was boring. Any story you can explain in a paragraph especially after a few hours is dull.

Kasumi clone runs around pretending to be kasumi and then finds out she's not a clone and then goes mental and becomes psycho wizard clone and then ninjas had to stop her with the real kasumi.

And yet, plenty of others don't even give a shit and believe Ivy is nothing more than a dominatrix slut(in Argentus's own words) when she's anything but still. And Ivy's story really hasn't changed her all THAT much, it's barely gradual on some cases. Sophitia's dilemma COULD have been a welcome change...if she didn't die in the interim between SCIV and V, same with Cassandra being knocked into the Astral Chaos(fuck you Project Soul).
And you are saying Mitsurugi isn't dull and pointless at this rate? The man who at this point only just stays around and fights shit to the point the only thing plotwise is fight Algol? Yeah sure.

 

[Number 13]

When can DoA get a PB that is Cassandra Critical Finish tier?

DoA needs to step up their game in this area if you ask me. Speaking about Cassandra, she was announced for Lost Swords but considering that game is making DoA look like Sunday School appropriate I doubt many cares.
* Hides under box*

 

[Project Bokuho]

Sitting on people's faces would mean no awesome push back animation for PBs

When can DoA get a PB that is Cassandra Critical Finish tier?

Apparently, SCIV has two critical finishes for each character (yes, I found out about this just now lol).