PhoenixVFIRE
Well-Known Member
/sadface lol
Dead or Alive 5: Remaining Issues
- Thread starter AKNova7
- Start date
UnD34D
Active Member
Thats why you go straight Astaroth and introduce that bitch to some pimp walks
AKNova7
Active Member
Alright guys I'm back home, so let's get back on topic for a while, only 5 days left.
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List
1. The game requires more poke moves. While negative on block, or positive on block (preferably positive on block if the movement supports it,) the game needs more moves that are safe on punishment on block.
Solution: Either (ONE of the following options)
A) Add more moves to the game that are +0 to -4 on block, to encourage movement of some kind instead of just countering stuff.
B) Add poke moves to the game that are positive on block slightly (+1 - +2) to encourage landing pokes into offense instead of just string delays.
Since you introduced the Virtua Fighter characters into the game, this makes a lot of sense, because both options are used in Virtua Fighter, the difference would be that there are varying levels of punishment in DOA depending on how much of a risk one takes.
2. String Delay is, while an interesting mechanic, very hard to methodically deal with at any level. And while, at this point, it's hard to remove, part of the largest pain is the combination of string delay and free canceling together. Both these things take away from the potential of the game, and make it hard for a player to effectively play defense, regardless of having one of the best defensive moves of all time, the defensive counter.
Solution: Either (ONE of the following options)
A) Reduce the amount of time in general characters have to delay attacks, and make free canceling slower.
B) Adjust the frame data so if moves are delayed at all, they're unsafe on block, and make free canceling slower.
C) Adjust the frame data so if moves are delayed at all, they're negative on hit (so people can't follow up with anything else) and disallow stuns and combos from delayed moves (because with the window there is, it's almost impossible to react to these at a competitive level).
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This is how the list is shaping up so far. Bring up anything I forgot, that you disagree with on the list or need to add to the list in general, or the concerns that other professional players have. The reason I added multiple options to fix problems is because Team Ninja is a lot more likely to use our feedback if you don't try telling them there's only one way to do it. Sure, there's always a best way, but the key is to add many ways that are improvement and hope for the best.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Do you think characters like Kasumi, Christie and Hitomi have a good amount of "poking" attacks. I put Hitomi in because she doesnt have poking attacks but her attacks are pretty safe like those poke attacks.^^^THIS X 1BILLION!!!
I'm so glad that there's someone else in here who agrees with me that we need more poking attacks in this game so as not to completely rely on strings, string delays and free canceling.
UnD34D
Active Member
I think this made me lol harder than anything I've ever seen on a forum before. I promise I'm not making fun of you Doug, but this is hilarious.
OSTCarmine
Active Member
if they just made it clear to the defender EXACTLY when a string was being delayed or cancelled we would have far less problems with that part of the game overall. your suggestion might end up nerfing some good combos and juggles. its not like im particularly against that, i can always work out another juggle if i need to, but the changes you suggested have far reaching effects. above all else its going to slow the game down a bit too, not something im particularly FOR.
Let me make this abundantly clear, Nova - I like your train of thought, I agree that these changes (all of them) could fix some of the major issues we have with the current DOA, but i also dont like where this particular aspect (delay/cancel) is headed because i forsee other problems just beyond the horizon.
Let me make this abundantly clear, Nova - I like your train of thought, I agree that these changes (all of them) could fix some of the major issues we have with the current DOA, but i also dont like where this particular aspect (delay/cancel) is headed because i forsee other problems just beyond the horizon.
AKNova7
Active Member
Yeah, I understand what you mean.
And while I believe you're right, perating on fake advantage in general is just a bad way to go about things. The juggles and combos that were nerfed because of these changes to string delay aren't really true combos anyway most of the time, unless you're talking about air hit delays. If so, Team Ninja could just have the air hit properties be slightly different.
Sure, it would slow the game down a bit, but it'd still be faster than most if not all of the other 3D fighters on the market, the only reason the game would be slower is because people wouldn't be able to pelt people with free cancel and string delay faux advantage all day, which is ridiculous, because you're literally just guessing when to attack.
Also, the marker to tell people doesn't help the majority as much, because, for instance, if you're playing online, it still might not make much of a difference, you know? I think it'd be much better to address the problem, and part of the problem was the speed of the game along with the cancels and delays.
I mean, honestly, if you did to the game what needs to happen, the combos and juggles would be nerfed based on changing the entire way the awful stun system operates. Personally, I think #3 should be (increase the percentage of unholdable stuns in the game, and decrease the number of stuns in the game overall.) To improve the ability to get combos, but decrease the number of things you actually get stuns on.
OSTCarmine
Active Member
to #3 i would also add - changing hit properties on counter hit to allow more uncomboable/semi-comboable situations. basically this means that the stun threshold responds to certain moves radically differently. basically this suggestion allows the following
1|Only certain attacks (fewer than what we have currently) get stun properties (This i KNOW we all want)
2|Only certain attacks get stun properties on counter hit (far less than what we have now in DOA4/D)
3|Only certain attacks extend stuns (basic pokes/CB/Sitdown attacks etc)
4|Every other attacks gets an uncomboable or semi-comboable state on counter hit. these attacks either do knockdown, crumple or slight launch
i know DOA already incorporates these things to a certain extent. i want them to go even further with it. i would like some criticism on this particular suggestion though cuz i have a feeling it could lead to issues, some of which i can already forsee, and others i cant but know are there.
1|Only certain attacks (fewer than what we have currently) get stun properties (This i KNOW we all want)
2|Only certain attacks get stun properties on counter hit (far less than what we have now in DOA4/D)
3|Only certain attacks extend stuns (basic pokes/CB/Sitdown attacks etc)
4|Every other attacks gets an uncomboable or semi-comboable state on counter hit. these attacks either do knockdown, crumple or slight launch
i know DOA already incorporates these things to a certain extent. i want them to go even further with it. i would like some criticism on this particular suggestion though cuz i have a feeling it could lead to issues, some of which i can already forsee, and others i cant but know are there.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Sorry i dont really like these ideas. Stuns to me are very important in DOA and what your proposing would make achieving critical burst much harder. I just think your suggestion over complicates things a bit.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Stuns are fine but they occur too damn often. I'd really prefer they went back to DoA++ where very few attacks stunned and just made those stuns unholdable. Doubt that would ever happen but I think that would be the most ideal way to deal with holds and also would make you have to work for your damn stuns instead of just sneezing and getting a stun ever other hit.
AKNova7
Active Member
While I don't think he's doing it the right way, he's right. The spamming of stuns in this game needs to die. People need to start thinking, not just fishing for CH because everything stuns then go into Second Stun then CB/Throw M/U or something. Seriously, the only reason this is even happening is because of all these stuns, they don't need to be here in the first place. Go ++, and kill that shit.
But, unfortunately, that's not reasonable to ask THIS far in development. So, we have to work with what we have.
Or holding in stun
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Holding in regular stuns or out of those special stuns. I find it both annoying in general but almost all attacks stun so i guess it would be too hard to counter then.Or holding in stun
Umm you must be new here, Welcome to an argument held a few months back causing alot of rage and hate and division in the community. Just let it go man ... Just let it go... lol
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Who doesnt like a good argument right. I thought everyone was on the same page with stuns, but i guess not?
not everyone is on the same page with any of the issues being addressed acctually. lol
Blackula
Active Member
Not everyone is on the same page. Since returning to the site and reading all of the comments in many of the DOA5 threads, I've determined that there are basically two groups here: There's the group that pretty much wants more of the same, and then there's the group that see drastic changes to the game.
Reading everyone's posts here, you'll easily be able to tell who is in which group.
I belong to the latter along with others like Rikuto, Dr Dogg, Sorwah, Raansu, Grap3 just to name a few.