A Discussion of sexualised design of male/female characters

[Russian-chiropractic19]

So I've found this article. I thought it was interesting. What are your thoughts on it?
http://nichegamer.com/2015/12/sex-negative-beliefs-are-ruining-gaming-and-society-at-large/

i saw that and i had to resist the urge to facepalm all the way through to the back of my skull.

people are always trying to escalate trivial things to make their points more poignant. trying to compare anything that happens in games to the effects over strict parents have is absurd. one cuts you off the other basically just says "you cant find that shit here(sex/gore) but try the next door over".

there is no deeper issue. only discussion i care about it is how is this sexualization affecting the atmosphere in a game and does the design look good and represent the character enough to where i dont have to argue with my suspension of disbelief everytime that person shows up on screen.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

there is no deeper issue. only discussion i care about it is how is this sexualization affecting the atmosphere in a game and does the design look good and represent the character enough to where i dont have to argue with my suspension of disbelief everytime that person shows up on screen.

Honestly, in comparison to say Call of Duty where that same excuse shows how hard the series ignores Geneva Conventions, I'd say CoD is far worse if you look at it in that way of sexualization hurting the masses if people want to use that logic.

 

[Argentus]

Voice makes sense when it comes from her bodytype, her mannerisms really isn't that childish(wow, 1 or 2 pieces...so kiddy) her babyface and physique doesn't really change that in the slightest either.

It's again people overreacting for the hell of it.

No like 2/3 of her move set is childinf hopscotch hops, skipping, cutesy poses, etc plus the toddler jpop poses for intro and win, and again she has an actual baby's face.

Its not exaggerating or overreactinf ita just noticing the obvious

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

No like 2/3 of her move set is childinf hopscotch hops, skipping, cutesy poses, etc plus the toddler jpop poses for intro and win, and again she has an actual baby's face.

Its not exaggerating or overreactinf ita just noticing the obvious

Again, that's still reaching there for a point. Some of her moves being childish doesn't still help your point because people can act immature when they are mature and vice-versa.
It's still basically speculation from start to finish and proof really means nothing.

 

[XVideos]

It's probably the combination that gives the effect. Lucky Chloe does the same sort of thing, and you wouldn't think she's a kid because of her body type.

Marie Rose needs to grow up a little. She doesn't need nice tits like all the other girls, but she needs to level up in some areas.

 

[Tyaren]

Ivy is probably my favorite character in Soul Calibur. I can't play with her at all, but I love ogling her in the character viewer and watch her fight. In the most recent games however they imho crossed a line, where I didn't find her sexy anymore but trashy and actually unappealing:

In SC4 she looks like a...

Spoiler

Basically just meat on display...nastily jiggly meat. (They had ass jiggle long before DOAX3.)

Soul Calibur 5's Ivy was fortunately designed a lot better...

She still doesn't hide much of her goods, but it's done in a much smarter and classier way. I really like the idea of giving her a typical 18th century military uniform and combining it with intricate lace and some clever and prettily placed windows to "display the meat". She seems tough and dominant, even manly yet very womanly and sensual at the same time.

I do like sexualized characters, when done smart and classy and with some thought behind it. Everything else actually repels me. Like what they are now doing in DOAX3. It's just degrading the girls and selling them as dumb meat. :/

 

[Chapstick]

DOAX3 is at the point I don't see characters anymore, just dollar signs. They might as well not have heads.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

DOAX3 is at the point I don't see characters anymore, just dollar signs. They might as well not have heads.

It was like that in the other DOAX games(well maybe not the first), so pretty much, you gotta see them that way.

 

[Argentus]

Again, that's still reaching there for a point. Some of her moves being childish doesn't still help your point because people can act immature when they are mature and vice-versa.
It's still basically speculation from start to finish and proof really means nothing.

Um. How far in denial ARE you lol?

She's somewhere around 8-12. All signs point to it, get over it XD

There's no speculation or reaching for anything.

Looks young
Talks young
Walks young
Acts young
Dresses young
Sounds young

Is young.


Team Ninja is just going for the "porn site method" with "oh yeah no dude she's totally 18 no worries"

It's probably the combination that gives the effect. Lucky Chloe does the same sort of thing, and you wouldn't think she's a kid because of her body type.

Marie Rose needs to grow up a little. She doesn't need nice tits like all the other girls, but she needs to level up in some areas.

Exactly. A girl can be petitie while still looking like an adult. Marie was designed through and through to look young

Jeez is that all official art? First one under the spoiler really looks like it's from a doujin.

Yeah most of the "female" digimon got this treatment. Even ones who werent that feminine to begin with

Here a Crescemon who debuted in like 2003-2005.

And here's her more modern cards

Even with Harpymon. Again original first, then more modern art

 

[Sammy-Fu]

Looks young
Talks young
Walks young
Acts young
Dresses young
Sounds young

Is young.


Team Ninja is just going for the "porn site method" with "oh yeah no dude she's totally 18 no worries"


Exactly. A girl can be petitie while still looking like an adult. Marie was designed through and through to

Yeah most of the "female" digimon got this treatment. Even ones who werent that feminine to begin with

Here a Crescemon who debuted in like 2003-2005.


And here's her more modern cards



Even with Harpymon. Again original first, then more modern art

That's a point i tend to agree with you and some others on. Now i'm not saying i don't want her in the game and TOTALLY respect people who like the character and want to play as her, any disgust towards the character and her fans is something i DON'T agree on.

Marie Rose looks about 8. That's just my personal opinion, if people want to like and play as her specifically then that's their choice and i'm okay with that, it's virtual characters after all so it doesn't bother me. (I get curious on such preferences though, i will admit)

Now people say Honoka looks a similar age but i disagree (people would probably call that biased, though it doesn't bother me at all) In my honest opinion Honoka looks about 16. She goes to some sort of Highschool and she is "well developed" If people are saying they are the same age i don't believe 8 year old's are "well developed", facially to me, Honoka looks 16. (Again though that's my opinion on the ages and how i look at them, If Honoka looked any younger to me, i wouldn't find her sexy at all and i probably would have stuck to Helena and Ayane....although personally, I really love the way Honoka plays so i'm glad i picked up the character, regardless.)

I respect and totally understand if people like and want to play as Marie Rose and i respect Japan's culture for such things but it's honestly not for me and it's not something i will ever be a part of.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Um. How far in denial ARE you lol?

She's somewhere around 8-12. All signs point to it, get over it XD

There's no speculation or reaching for anything.

Looks young
Talks young
Walks young
Acts young
Dresses young
Sounds young

Is young.


Team Ninja is just going for the "porn site method" with "oh yeah no dude she's totally 18 no worries"

Hilariously enough, you are in just as much denial as you say I am...

You are so determined to believe she's younger than 18 that it's becoming pretty funny. I said it before, I'll say it again and again and again:

Unless you have proof that Team Ninja SPECIFICALLY designed her to be 12 or whatever and slapped a number on her, you would have a point...but you have to not only contend with the fact that your points can easily be turned against you(Again, people with her bodytype don't actually get deep voices most of the time unless they are in their middle ages, how does she walk young? Her dress style honestly means nothing in the grand scheme of anything and people do have that bodytype and people do act immature for their ages anyway) but the fact that overall she's a fictional character held up to the same non-standard any other character is(just like it wasn't okay Kasumi, Ayane and Kokoro was underage and then BAM, suddenly now it's okay because they are of age, especially in Ayane's case in NG:B in the ripe old age of 14)

I honestly hate arguing this because it always ends up so fucking dumb so I'm done, you can respond but I will not say anything back because this Marie Rose shit has and always been dumb to me(especially makes it worse when I randomly find porn stars damn near the same bodytype as her, they just aren't as short as well as from my own eyes in life) and it still will be.

 

[XVideos]

Ivy is probably my favorite character in Soul Calibur. I can't play with her at all, but I love ogling her in the character viewer and watch her fight. In the most recent games however they imho crossed a line, where I didn't find her sexy anymore but trashy and actually unappealing:

My favorite Ivy is still from SC2.

But I love all of these costumes

 

[Argentus]

That's a point i tend to agree with you and some others on. Now i'm not saying i don't want her in the game and TOTALLY respect people who like the character and want to play as her, any disgust towards the character and her fans is something i DON'T agree on.

Marie Rose looks about 8. That's just my personal opinion, if people want to like and play as her specifically then that's their choice and i'm okay with that, it's virtual characters after all so it doesn't bother me. (I get curious on such preferences though, i will admit)

Now people say Honoka looks a similar age but i disagree (people would probably call that biased, though it doesn't bother me at all) In my honest opinion Honoka looks about 16. She goes to some sort of Highschool and she is "well developed" If people are saying they are the same age i don't believe 8 year old's are "well developed", facially to me, Honoka looks 16. (Again though that's my opinion on the ages and how i look at them, If Honoka looked any younger to me, i wouldn't find her sexy at all and i probably would have stuck to Helena and Ayane....although personally, I really love the way Honoka plays so i'm glad i picked up the character, regardless.)

I respect and totally understand if people like and want to play as Marie Rose and i respect Japan's culture for such things but it's honestly not for me and it's not something i will ever be a part of.

See Honokas difference. She uses a copy paste of Maries face but otherwise she's obviously 16-19. Build mannerisms dress etc.

Marie is blatantly, almost explicitly, about 8-12, and Team Ninja is obviously lieing out there asses to appease censors by saying "totally 18" lol.

Much like how they did a two year time skip so they can say the younger girls are 18 now despite it being obvious no such time has actually passed.

Unless you have proof that Team Ninja SPECIFICALLY designed her to be 12

Seriously though her c1 dress and schoolgirl outfits are the only times she looks any older and even those cap at about 13-14

 

[Niitris]

My favorite Ivy is still from SC2.

But I love all of these costumes

Too bad LS itself sucked.

Both girls (the kawaii duo) look like they're in their mid to late teens, they were both made to appeal to people who like teenage girls (yeah yeah, I know). It's just one's flat and the other isn't. Marie isn't an 8 year old because of not looking developed and prances around like a bratty child. Nor is Honoka substantially older because her chest has a permanent swelling condition.

Unless your definition of little kid is anyone 15 or younger (in which that case I won't argue), neither are kids. They (TN) are flirting with a line that definitely crosses into a creepy territory with both of them. And yes, they can both 'pass' for being 18, they're just being promoted in a way where they act younger... which gives the impression of them being younger.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

*Sigh*
By that logic, Hitomi and Lei-Fang might as well be 14 if you want to use Victory Poses and how they act as evidence of Marie being a kid...

But nonetheless, I really am tired of this discussion as ultimately, I'm not trying to sway anyone, I'm pointing out that I just do not see Marie as a kid because of my own experiences.

I do agree with Niitris that this is a fine line they are close to crossing but she really isn't the line nor is TN at it either.

 

[Chapstick]

It was like that in the other DOAX games(well maybe not the first), so pretty much, you gotta see them that way.

I really can't argue that lol

Speaking of SC and sexualization remember Voldo?

On probably any other character I'd find this really sexual but he's so weird it just registers as weird to me. I see all the bondage elements here and in other outfits of his but it's just like..funny. I think it suits him at least lol

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

it should be noted that Honoka was explicitly stated to have come about from them thinking about a 16 year old coming back from school in an interview awhile back. so we do have proof that TN will up age a character's intended age just to get past legal issues. so Honoaka was specifically designed to be 16 and if Marie looks younger which pretty much everyone should be able to agree with then at most we're talking 15

I really can't argue that lol

Speaking of SC and sexualization remember Voldo?

On probably any other character I'd find this really sexual but he's so weird it just registers as weird to me. I see all the bondage elements here and in other outfits of his but it's just like..funny. I think it suits him at least lol

Voldo is meant to be sexual but not attractive. basically his design is meant to make your opponents as uncomfortable as possible and just creep you the fuck out.

 

[Argentus]

My favorite Ivy is still from SC2.

But I love all of these costumes

See this more like what I like (though I do love me some Makoto Nanaya)

Like bullet is my new bb main but id lover her 800% more if she had full pants. Those denim panties are actually ugly to me

*Sigh*
By that logic, Hitomi and Lei-Fang might as well be 14 if you want to use Victory Poses and how they act as evidence of Marie being a kid...

But nonetheless, I really am tired of this discussion as ultimately, I'm not trying to sway anyone, I'm pointing out that I just do not see Marie as a kid because of my own experiences.

I do agree with Niitris that this is a fine line they are close to crossing but she really isn't the line nor is TN at it either.

Lol except hitomi and leifang don't come across as 14-.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Lol except hitomi and leifang don't come across as 14-.

Speak for yourself...

it should be noted that Honoka was explicitly stated to have come about from them thinking about a 16 year old coming back from school in an interview awhile back. so we do have proof that TN will up age a character's intended age just to get past legal issues. so Honoaka was specifically designed to be 16 and if Marie looks younger which pretty much everyone should be able to agree with then at most we're talking 15

That's still a reach to be honest.
While yes, they did say that, you can also say it's in terms of spirit and design, not actually what they was aiming for. Ultimately, it's still nothing more than hypothesis.

I really can't argue that lol

Speaking of SC and sexualization remember Voldo?

On probably any other character I'd find this really sexual but he's so weird it just registers as weird to me. I see all the bondage elements here and in other outfits of his but it's just like..funny. I think it suits him at least lol

Honestly, it's what Russian says. He's SUPPOSED to be sexual, but he isn't attractive. But the funny thing is that people seem to actually ignore the fact he's supposed to be sexual and focus more on the appearance and then call him weird as if it negates the overall intention.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

That's still a reach to be honest.
While yes, they did say that, you can also say it's in terms of spirit and design, not actually what they was aiming for.

she's a video game character spirit and design is all there is to them, therefore yeah that's what they were aiming for.