Helena's needed improvements

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Good to see they are aware, I'm definitely interested in seeing what she turns out to be when the game comes out. I... don't particularly want her to be top tier again, but she doesn't need to be bottom tier by any means. She'd need a heck of a lot more than what she has/had to be top status in 5 at this point though.
 

Baron West

Member
12 frame BKO isn't good enough though Omegan.

I wonder whether or not Team Ninja understands that ducking has been a more effective way for Helena to avoid high attacks than going into BKO since DOA2. BKO is at best a very slow duck, which leaves her more vulnerable to mids(since she can't block) and it doesn't reward well even when she successfully evades. BKO 2 evades lots of things, but the window of vulnerability going from neutral to BKO makes it more of a flashy tactic than a practical one. I like flash, but it can lose games. In order to go into BKO safely Helena has to stun the opponent, or go into BKO from outside of close range, the latter of which defeats the purpose.

In terms of evading moves, Christie's side steps have always been a lot better. Hell, Christie's roll goes lower than BKO does.

Since DOA2 ducking has been a more effective way for Helena to avoid high attacks than going into BKO. As it is, BKO is a very slow duck, which leaves her vulnerable to any mid, and it doesn't reward very well even when it's successful at evading a move.

0-6 frame BKO would make things a lot better. People using Piqua in real life go into and out of that low stance very fast. Is Team Ninja making Helena's extra crappy on purpose in order to make Pai's lousy BKO look better? If they're going to make her weak, they might as well give her a new quick and easily spammable taunt, so that when we win with her, we can rub it in people's face.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
they already mess up Hitomi a little bit by removing my favorite moves like the tiger claw attack from her "kick down kick" & the knee kick to the back
in the head from her Azusa-Yumi is gone!

If you're referring to her :236::F+P::Link::F+P: (which can be seen at 4:22 in this video), that move was actually called Kyokushin-Taizan, and it looks like the full combo throw is still in. At 3:01 in this video you'll notice that at the end of Hitomi's throw "Combo Throw" appears on the screen under Hitomi's life gauge. So although Vanessa didn't do the follow-up knee to the head, it looks like it's still there.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Interesting....... Where can I find that video, I bet its the E3 one. :confused:

I linked to them in that post that you quoted.

Here is the video with the move that I think you're referring to. Skip to 4:22 to see it.

And here is the video where you see Venessa do the first part of it, with "Combo Throw" apperring when she can do the knee. Skip to 3:01 to see it.
 

PhoenixVFIRE

Well-Known Member
And here is the video where you see Venessa do the first part of it, with "Combo Throw" apperring when she can do the knee. Skip to 3:01 to see it.
Yeah, it looks like they added back the second part of that throw. I didn't really care for the second part, it seems awkward.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Yeah, it looks like they added back the second part of that throw. I didn't really care for the second part, it seems awkward.

I liked it. I felt it added an extra bit of flare to the throw.

I know I'm the one who mentioned the return of Hitomi's combo throw in the first place, but let's get back to discussing Helena.
 

PhoenixVFIRE

Well-Known Member
I liked it. I felt it added an extra bit of flare to the throw.

I know I'm the one who mentioned the return of Hitomi's combo throw in the first place, but let's get back to discussing Helena.
My reaction to reading Helena's Breakdown.

tumblr_m6xd9yAs7i1qjh0yyo2_500.gif
 

Codemaster92163

Well-Known Member
Just replying to some of the earlier posts, I don't think PP2KP is important, either. She doesn't need THAT string when her others may prove just as useful. If her 236PKP is as good as it was in Dimensions, then that will likely become many a players' finishing move. It was really, really good. I will miss her P+K crush, but I think making it crush at least highs would be nice. I would like her CBs to be varied i.e. not just mid punches, and I wish her throw damage would increase (if she can't have nice damage elsewhere and people spam mid punch counters, at least give her a tool to punish [heavily] those would-be counters).
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
Thanks 4 the video. It looks like its back, but im not getting my hopes up. Ima wait and see when it comes out and im glad they're playing on the PS3 version this time. Everything seem to run very smooth on both consoles and thats how I want it to be. :)
 

Project Bokuho

Lady Helena's Pet
Premium Donor
I have something to say, and i don't think i have made it officially clear on this forum.
I too admit that i am pretty disappointed in what Team Ninja has done to Helena with these "great changes."
But, as a strong Helena fan, i also have to make this clear:
No matter the conditions(nerfs, buffs, etc.) that Team Ninja gives her(even though the nerf method they decided to give her is a big mistake), Helena Douglas will always be my main character.
Yes i agree what Team Ninja done was pretty stupid(again the nerfing), but again, Helena Douglas will always be my main character no matter what.
Besides, it's not too late for TN to fix her.
 

Chris Harris

Well-Known Member
Once again Helena isn't broken. . . .so there isn't anything to fix lmao. You make it seem as if she is unplayable when she still has better options than some other characters lmao.
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Once again Helena isn't broken. . . .so there isn't anything to fix lmao. You make it seem as if she is unplayable when she still has better options than some other characters lmao.

Okay so the only character confirmed as low tier is Lisa and Helena is confirmed to be worse than her so I can't understand what you are talking about when you say she has better options than other characters? Even her best tool, the ability to duck mid's whilst in Bokuho has been nerfed so what has she got that is so good?
 

DR2K

Well-Known Member
People that are burned that are having meltdown and the trolls give me orgasms (not really but its fun)

Most of us can pick another character, it's just a shame that a fan favorite is being intentionally designed to be weaker and less indepth than the rest of the cast. I have faith Team Ninja has gotten the right feedback and will adjust her accordingly like they have for the rest of the game/cast.

A lot of people were saying how "low tier" Brad, Eliot, and Lisa would be but I see a ton of potential in them.

As of now Helena has lost a ton of important things from DOA4 and has gained nothing from DOA5, and has gotten nerfed even further beyond that.
 

Pupi18

Well-Known Member
Most of us can pick another character, it's just a shame that a fan favorite is being intentionally designed to be weaker and less indepth than the rest of the cast. I have faith Team Ninja has gotten the right feedback and will adjust her accordingly like they have for the rest of the game/cast.

A lot of people were saying how "low tier" Brad, Eliot, and Lisa would be but I see a ton of potential in them.

As of now Helena has lost a ton of important things from DOA4 and has gained nothing from DOA5, and has gotten nerfed even further beyond that.

Its sad cause I wanted more for her but alas this happened. I do hope they fix her up. But seriously some people say hilarious things at times and I just would like to see some of those people going at it. :p

Again hopefully she gets tweaked.
 

TRI Mike

Well-Known Member
Eliot looks extremely solid in my personal opinion. Probably not high tier but he'll be annoying if used correctly this time. I can't say much about Brad yet. Lisa just seems too slow and like all her stuff will eventually be interrupted easily by most players.

Hele is just nerfed beyond recognition. I'm still very mad about this.
 
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