DOA5LR "I'll Try My Best!"Naotora Ii Gameplay Discussion

[The Spine]

It can evade lows, but you have to be REALLY precise when timing it to evade lows. 9KK for example can crush wake up low kicks but it has to be en point, if it was easy to pull off than crushing lows and evading them would honestly be braindead and that's all players would have to do. It's possible, but like everything in DOA it has it's risks.

Trying to crush lows with 6K doesn't seem very practical unless you've been tick throwing. I don't think anybody is really thinking "I should go low!" While Nao is on 6K. It's usually just the typical stuff. You know, hold, block, throw punish, etc.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I made a similar post awhile back regarding certain moves with the character to get interrupted mid incoming strings. This is likely the low block stun recovery off the moves to not properly link (It's unknown if it was intentional or not.)

Akira gets a free 2P launch setup that leads to 70+ damage because one of her potential high-mid attacks leaves her "jumping." 80+ from a slope that will grant you a knee. Close to 100 if you get a wall. The launch height is even higher because it's considered CH.

Previously, you were also able to backdash to whiff punish if you block 4K attack strings within certain distance and cause her to whiff leading to either guaranteed damage or throws. Gen Fu can even achieve his guaranteed BT setups from this.

 

[The Spine]

I made a similar post awhile back regarding certain moves with the character to get interrupted mid incoming strings. This is likely the low block stun recovery off the moves to not properly link (It's unknown if it was intentional or not.)

Akira gets a free 2P launch setup that leads to 70+ damage because one of her potential high-mid attacks leaves her "jumping." 80+ from a slope that will grant you a knee. Close to 100 if you get a wall. The launch height is even higher because it's considered CH.

Previously, you were able to backdash if you block 4K attack strings within certain distance and cause her to whiff leading to either guaranteed damage or throws. Gen Fu can even achieve his guaranteed BT setups from this.

Blockstun, that's what it is.

 

[John P.]

Trust me there are a lot of videos on how to destroy naotora with all her flaws in between. Rojikku did a whole stream learning every moment you can completely wreck her

 

[KasumiLover]

Trust me there are a lot of videos on how to destroy naotora with all her flaws in between. Rojikku did a whole stream learning every moment you can completely wreck her

That's the thing, we as Naotora players can't let that happen. I know some bait stuff and ways you can make the opponent react in a defensive way, and then you get a launch or 66T. As long as you don't get predictable and don't do 6KKKKKKK on block she's not gonna go down easily, especially if you don't just rushdown with her. Alot of players I watch on YouTube do that with her and then that puts a bad thought to other players that she can be exploited and blown up when she's not meant to play that way.

 

[The Spine]

Let's not forget that this is DoA. Momentum swings fast and easily.

 

[KasumiLover]

Well depending on how the players play, if one player is being unpredictable enough and doesn't get held or read at all then nor in that case, but sometimes a good guess can definitely turn the tide, which is why I love DOA so much, even when you're getting rushed, you still have a chance to counter.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Here's something interesting, if you 6K someone on block, they just have to do any strike 12 frames or under and you lose in every situation. If you cancel, it's unholdable and unblockable because of the negative frames. If you keep going, they hit you out of the entire string. This even applies to lows. This is a bit of a problem.

Well this doesn't bother me too much since I only use 6K as a whiff punisher. I prefer using 6P, 6PK, K or PK as a stun opener since there isn't too much risk if those are blocked. Interesting find though, I'll definitely keep it in mind when fighting against Naotora.

 

[DestructionBomb]

So for Naotora, we are looking at: i11/i12/i14 in neutral startups. Throws do moderate damage. Quite a number of moves stun even on NH (Not bad actually, essential for whiff punish scenario and baiting them to hold often due to unstaggerable followups), no OHs, middle-weight (likely Cruiser Helena weight due to hitbox scenarios.)

It isn't generally bad for Naotora minus trading jabs with the majority of roster that consists of i10 jabs or even worse, a few i9s since you could be +1 or even neutral and still lose in the jab department due to recovery on hit or delayable concepts applied for baiting, there are characters that gain frame advantage from CH jabs (if not majority of them).

Naotora is still in the works on finding out where exactly the character can be placed. However that alone is difficult since character usage can vary by certain skill level and consistency with the character itself from players against other players unless you play paper vs paper, which leads to too many conclusions that are not default happenings in a real matches. People play different in general and respond to most match ups differently than another, which is difficult to gather the information needed to determine exactly where the character fairs up tool-wise against the cast. You could do a X move here that can potentially beat out a corresponding attacker using Y move, however another player can react to that scenario differently due to DOA's free movement, hold mechanic, walls and overall ability to change the outcome of the match from players themselves.

 

[The Spine]

So for Naotora, we are looking at: i11/i12/i14 in neutral startups. Throws do moderate damage. Quite a number of moves stun even on NH (Not bad actually, essential for whiff punish scenario and baiting them to hold often due to unstaggerable followups), no OHs, middle-weight (likely Cruiser Helena weight due to hitbox scenarios.)

It isn't generally bad for Naotora minus trading jabs with the majority of roster that consists of i10 jabs or even worse, a few i9s since you could be +1 or even neutral and still lose in the jab department due to recovery on hit or delayable concepts applied for baiting, there are characters that gain frame advantage from CH jabs (if not majority of them).

Naotora is still in the works on finding out where exactly the character can be placed. However that alone is difficult since character usage varies can vary skill level and consistency with the character itself from players against other players unless you play paper vs paper, which leads to too many conclusions that are not default happening in a real match vs players. People play different in general and respond to most match ups differently than another, which is difficult to gather the information needed to determine exactly how the character fairs up tool-wise against the cast. You could do a X move here that can potentially beat out a corresponding attacker using Y move, however another player can react to that scenario differently due to DOA's free movement, hold mechanic, walls and overall ability to change the outcome of the match from players themselves.

Personally, even with it being DoA, I'd put her quite low.

 

[KasumiLover]

I think she's mid tier imo, lower mid at least. She's linear but her damage output and launchers and lows make up for it, and she has a couple of awesome moves that definitely push her away from being in the bottom tier. Her bad stuns, lack of guarantees, mediocre holds, and unsafety drag her down from being a upper mid tier, but overall it's how she's used like DB told me a while back I think in the actual Tier list thread.

 

[DestructionBomb]

In a same fashion for The Spine. For me, I believe Naotora isn't all that great....though I am up for surprises.

Luckily she is viable against the cast, simply because she plays towards the DOA mechanics still. She can hold, which is focus loss or overall momentum and pressure that was reset, she can throw and so on..it is definitely not the end of the world for Naotora. I mean, playing neutral may be the hard part, but that also can apply for the type of characters the opponent is using as well. Some characters she may have issues with, some don't. In general most characters (especially super heavies) have to be committed to make more reads than normal simply because speed priority kicks in and frame advantage on block along with stun locks from unstaggerable situations. Naotora isn't in this department heavily, but the concept can still apply on making reads and decision making.

Example, I think Naotora can do wonders against Honoka if played in sequence and taking advantage of range lower than 1.90Ms. That however, depends on the players...though random factors also kick in, especially when you play over the net and trying to react to things that are hard to focus on to adapt.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Yeah, 6K string should not be used on block, but it's not that she has many other viable options.
In my opinion, What really hurts her in neutral is the lack of actual strings in order for her to initiate a stun. Except for K, 6K, 6P (and 4K) and P every other move is a single strike that is negative on block, is slower, or knocks the opponent down (9KK).
Like it was mentioned 6KK can be stopped by a 12f or less move. Follow ups of the P string can all be avoided by crouching since the only mid she has is PPP that is -14 and the launch height sucks, personally I never use this.
This leaves her "viable" options to begin her stun game to 6P, 4K and K, though I would add 2H+K too, cause it stuns on NH and it's a high crush.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I completely forgot her lows as well. It isn't fast so crushing highs isn't a strong priority, not to mention that it has to be on CH to get advantage.

 

[KasumiLover]

....So I think I am able to make out Naotora's literal buffs this coming patch:

☆PPP, 66P, PPK, 6PKK, and 4KK will now launch higher making them better if they hit in neutral and possibly even better on counter hit.
☆6KK and 6KKKK are now hard force techs instead of light ones.
☆KK6K and 9K are safer on block at -9, -8 from a distance.
☆6KKK safer at -12 on block.
☆236K and KKK6K now have better refloat making it easier to confirm the second kick instead of it being very strict to pull off.
☆K is now a tracking move and safe at -5 meaning it's safer to free cancel from and can be used as somewhat of a baiting poke.
☆KKKK6K now has better launch...it's still absolute garbage as a mix up however.
☆The IFC P+K attack has been modified but how exactly is still kinda vague. Either Naotora is left in a squat position or something, but either way it's not a buff since she can always be punished by this.
☆Back K and P had some irrelevant bugs fixed.
☆Back 4P has a better launch.

 

[The Spine]

Could it be that the back K bug is the one that enables Naotora to do Back K6KK? We'll see I guess. Also, Li Stance P+K will be in crouching position it says. Which I feel could be a nerf.

 

[KasumiLover]

Yeah, she'll be able to be low thrown by it now but some players tend to over think it and just stand throw or high jab her for it so it may avoid some stuff. And if she won't be able to do BT K6KK, it'll be a small nerf but nothing major.

 

[The Spine]

Yeah, she'll be able to be low thrown by it now but some players tend to over think it and just stand throw or high jab her for it so it may avoid some stuff. And if she won't be able to do BT K6KK, it'll be a small nerf but nothing major.

Considering the state of the character, it's quite a nerf.

 

[Nikotsumi]

So, I wanted to see if that 6KK/6KKKK change from light to hard force tech could be of any use in wall combos, and nope, this string is too slow :
I tried with every single "wall splat" move she has to check if she had a good force tech setup and she hasn't. The max I could get is +50f by using 3K (and less consistenly P+K) as a wall combo ender and even that is not enough. The opponent can still use wake up kicks and hit Nao during the 6KK, though he/she has to do it soon after touching the floor.

 

[KasumiLover]

I could see it being useful after a CH 4P and you're opponent doesn't hold, the opponent will overall have be scared to get up for the FTs to even be useful.