My DOA5 rollercoaster and apprehensions about DOA5

[Berzerk!]

I am a fan of strong defence/offence should win the game. A player on the defence should not be given multiple times to be successful. It is very lopsided. 4-5 hits to get critical bursts is 4-5x a defensive player can be successful(while only needing one time in the process), while it is a mandatory 4-5x the offensive player can fail to reach a CB. Lowering it down to 2-3 is still not balanced, but it gives the offensive player the incentive to play the stun game.

Agree completely. Team ninja should be aiming for elegant solutions to each section of gameplay and this one is so important. Like you I am happy that Doa has a defensive game that extends into stun, but they know they need to limit this and provide a pathway to reward the attacker. That is why we have Critical Burst.
It is a goal for the attacker.

But the problem is the attacker has to succeed at taking chances too many times to reach the threshold, and the on that 4th or 5th hit he can still be held.

It is far more elegant to match the triangle system with an underlying notion in stun you will get three chances as a defender and that is it. If CB was to work on the 3rd hit the majority of the time and 2nd or 4th rarely, that would not be too strong or repetitive. That is still many opportunities to hold, not to mention at the start before getting hit you have defensive options:

Block
Sidestep
Fuzzy guard
Backdash
Free step
Use an evasive attack

So the neutral game offers many defensive chances - the stun game should offer only 3 chances to get out, 3 times of the attacker taking a risk to extend a stun and get critical burst.

It's so much more elegant, robust and easy to explain to skeptical players that are new or who play other games. Triangle system, three chances before cb. If you hold correctly you reset the combo. If you don't, you should get a Cb guaranteed, and even then it's not repetitive as the attacke can still be held on the cb itself and would have to go for a launcher. 4-5 chances before this is too much though

Team ninja must look at how the game is being played and see their excellent attacking mechanic is not being used with regularity and address it because this over everything else will add to its competitive standing. The defensive hold is in no danger of not being used since it is available at neutral and 2-3 hits of a stun. That would be balanced, currently the defensive hold is stronger.

 

[Keylay]

One thing to note is that sit down stuns eliminate a hit to reach critical burst. Since the defender can't hold during the sit down stun, you get a free hit. And 3-in-1s and 2-in-1s will reduce the hits to reach critical burst unless they do low damage. I know Helena has a 3-in-1 and I believe Bayman has a natural combo. Hopefully, more characters have them as well.

 

[MeanMrMustard]

From what I hear, some characters are losing their 2-in-1s and 3-in-1s, unfortunately.

 

[DR2K]

From what I hear, some characters are losing their 2-in-1s and 3-in-1s, unfortunately.

Well I hope you heard wrong, because that freaking sucks.

 

[Berzerk!]

I deliberately left out sit down stuns because the unholdable threshold has not been shown or proven to change the stun threshold / hold guessing dynamic with consistency. I noted "rarely" it should take 2 hits and if you consider unholdable stun as skipping a hit, yes it's rare, yes you can still counter hold the move that causes stun, no we don't know how many of these stuns remain in the game or how slow or predictable they are, no we don't know how many viable options there are to actually land anything afterwards.

There is some hope to be had but chaining unholdable to cb is just not happening much if at all based on the footage we've seen in the Gamescom build.

Love to hear what people have specifically tested around this though

 

[DrDogg]

I can't think of any characters that get a guaranteed CB after a sit down stun, as of the IPL/GVN build. If you get a sit down stun... which is also getting pretty rare... you go for a launch or whatever you can get that's guaranteed. Some characters don't get anything of significance off of a sit down stun.

 

[MaxwellMouse]

I have nothing of merit to contribute. Just want to say I agree with everything Berzerk and everyone else had stated in this thread. I highly doubt the CB was returned to E3 status and I can live with that, but I really hope enough people complained about hold duration to merit fixing it. Hopefully Team Ninja understands our problems with it now.

 

[Chaos]

From what I hear, some characters are losing their 2-in-1s and 3-in-1s, unfortunately.

It sounds like DOA5 is getting weaker and weaker at this point sadly. And it seems like TN is playing with us and having a big middle finger saying, "FUCK U FANS" Im done being hype for this game because what im reading so far is nothing but bad bad news.

 

[DR2K]

I can't think of any characters that get a guaranteed CB after a sit down stun, as of the IPL/GVN build. If you get a sit down stun... which is also getting pretty rare... you go for a launch or whatever you can get that's guaranteed. Some characters don't get anything of significance off of a sit down stun.

Kasumi players were getting cbs off of sit down stuns.

 

[MeanMrMustard]

If only the release date for the game was in July, I think we'd have the game we wanted. =/

 

[DrDogg]

Kasumi players were getting cbs off of sit down stuns.

If you don't slow escape every character gets a CB off of sit down stuns... well, almost every character. The problem is when people slow escape. That drastically reduces the length of the sit down stun and prevents most CBs from connecting.

 

[DR2K]

If you don't slow escape every character gets a CB off of sit down stuns... well, almost every character. The problem is when people slow escape. That drastically reduces the length of the sit down stun and prevents most CBs from connecting.

Can't you just let them slow escape and grab them as they defend? (I'm asking)

 

[DrDogg]

Can't you just let them slow escape and grab them as they defend? (I'm asking)

There are options, but that's not guaranteed. The ideal situation is to know exactly what's guaranteed from your sit down stuns and go for that every time. For example, Bayman gets a guaranteed launcher off of his sit down stuns. There's no need to try for a CB or throw attempt when you can just land a launcher every single time.

 

[human013]

Although I have no experience with doa, after reading these changes and many of you not liking it, I'm starting to worry if i should get it. I'll just wait for some reviews of the final version.

 

[RoboJoe]

Although I have no experience with doa, after reading these changes and many of you not liking it, I'm starting to worry if i should get it. I'll just wait for some reviews of the final version.

Don't be fooled, doa5 is currently considered the best of the series. Every single competitive player who plays it comes back wishing they could play it some more. I mean, when is the last time anyone heard DrDogg say "If the game isn't sound, I'll drop it and play Tekken." Before you couldn't go five posts without him saying it. This isn't an isolated example either, I can't think of a single person who has played it and is still unconvinced.

 

[chocogerman777]

I just want to know TN's logic and reasoning behind making holds "just too... damn... STROOOOONG!!!!!!!!!"

 

[human013]

Don't be fooled, doa5 is currently considered the best of the series. Every single competitive player who plays it comes back wishing they could play it some more. I mean, when is the last time anyone heard DrDogg say "If the game isn't sound, I'll drop it and play Tekken." Before you couldn't go five posts without him saying it. This isn't an isolated example either, I can't think of a single person who has played it and is still unconvinced.

Thank you, now I'm really hyped up for the game now. I guess i need to take stop worrying over nothing.

 

[chocogerman777]

Thank you, now I'm really hyped up for the game now. I guess i need to take stop worrying over nothing.

DrDogg has the final build. He doesn't seem to be too worried.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

^ Yeah, it sounds like DOA5 is going to be a game worthy of song. I can't wait.

 

[Riizch]

I get the impression that when TN went into development with DOA5, they did so with a vision of a bold, new direction for the game, which was centred around competitive play, but as the development process has progressed, they've started losing that confidence and are reverting back towards the familiarity of past iterations. I'm sure DOA5 will still be by far the best of the series and give everyone plenty to be positive about...it just seems like TN have lost their nerve a little bit now that they've hit the final stretch.