Some gameplay issues with DOA6?

[Raansu]

A shitter that was one of the best Hitomi players in DoA4(only like 4 other players had better Hitomi's than me), but you're right, I'm just some dysfunctional player I guess.

In other news, I could only watch a few minutes of the first video. Seeing that Jann Lee counter after getting wall bounce *vomit*

 

[CounterTerrorist]

A shitter that was one of the best Hitomi players in DoA4(only like 4 other players had better Hitomi's than me), but you're right, I'm just some dysfunctional player I guess.

In other news, I could only watch a few minutes of the first video. Seeing that Jann Lee counter after getting wall bounce *vomit*

#4 best hitomi by who's judgement? And if you're so proud of it why shit on DOA4 in the same breath?
The literal fuck is going on here?

 

[ryu_highabusa]

I don't think I'll be the one crying, dude.

But you're crying now??

 

[Raansu]

#4 best hitomi by who's judgement? And if you're so proud of it why shit on DOA4 in the same breath?
The literal fuck is going on here?View attachment 25111

Because it doesn't change the fact that on a competitive level it was a shallow game? Casually I enjoyed the game, but competitively? Nope. Even at Dead or Alive in Dallas #7, a lot of us just wanted to play DoA3, and most of the focus was on TeamNinja who was showing off NG3 and we spent a lot of time just talking to Shimbori about DoA5 (this was before we knew it was even being worked on). I didn't even really care about the DoA4 tournament. Somehow I managed to place 3rd in Dimensions though.

As for the Hitomi thing, it was never done in any offline capacity, but we held tournaments online all the time. Usually about 30 or so Hitomi players would pop in. Only AngryWorm, NinjaCW and the third one I cant recall his name atm would consistently beat me. NinjaCW was straight up better than me. Out of 10 matches I'd usually only win 3 or 4 against him. AngrWorm was a little closer. We went about 50% on our matches.

Either way, I was no pushover.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

But you're crying now??

Not really, just getting heated over an argument of absolute nonsense. Anyone who shits on DOA4 deserves to get shit on, from my point of view. No one who enjoyed the game, which was a LOT of people, understands why anyone would be so irate at DOA4 with complainy sore loser reasons like "holds do too much damage" or "i can't mash my string out for free like literally every other generic fighting game".
But lo and behold, shitty forums like this one are filled to brim with this anti-DOA4 rhetoric and outright revisionist scumbag BS of just trying to tear the game down. To what fuckin purpose though? DOAX2 already accomplished that.
What exists to possibly be so afraid of in seeing a future DOA play similarly to DOA4? More DOA success for TN? Or is it some arbitrary Itagaki dickriding where some people just want to make sure TN doesn't succeed without him so they spend all their efforts sabotaging TN's R&D?
Why exactly is there to be so afraid of.

@Raansu
Saying "Doa4 wasn't competitive" just doesn't make sense as a defacto statement. You can't just say that without explaining anything and expect to be trusted. DOA4 was the absolute most competitive DOA had ever been up to that point, and I feel it still remains the most competitive since DOA5 was just a button masher's legacy bleeding Twitch streamers and viewers since day 1.

 

[Raansu]

What exists to possibly be so afraid of in seeing a future DOA play similarly to DOA4? More DOA success for TN?

Oh I dunno, maybe because those of us who have been around since the doacentral days and watched the community grow with DoA2U only to watch it die with DoA4? Why would we want a repeat of a game that was widely accepted as a bad game competitively? Why would the community want to go back to a dead community of begging people to show up to tournaments for a game no one liked and getting only 10 people to show up for? Why would the community want to go back to a game that literally did not play like DoA?

DoA5 by and far both commercially and community wise with tournaments was far more successful than DoA4. Hardly anyone here is going to side with you on going back to DoA4 style game play and the whole comment of "sabotaging" TN is weird and trollish to me. Especially if you ask a lot of the veteran players here from DoA4, most of us didn't like Itagaki's reasoning's as he would make weird comments like "a grappler should never beat a ninja." Trying to help Bass in 3.1 he accidentally made him a viable character then made him worthless in 4.

I'm sorry that you think this forum is shitty, but again, you're in the minority here on the subject of DoA4 and you're not going to get very far convincing anyone to agree with you on making doa6 play like doa4, especially when most of us consider doa5 a solid competitive fighter on par with 3.1. Obviously most of us are going to want DoA6 to evolve on what made DoA2, 3.1 and 5 good games.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

Not really, just getting heated over an argument of absolute nonsense. Anyone who shits on DOA4 deserves to get shit on, from my point of view. No one who enjoyed the game, which was a LOT of people, understands why anyone would be so irate at DOA4 with complainy sore loser reasons like "holds do too much damage" or "i can't mash my string out for free like literally every other generic fighting game".
But lo and behold, shitty forums like this one are filled to brim with this anti-DOA4 rhetoric and outright revisionist scumbag BS of just trying to tear the game down. To what fuckin purpose though? DOAX2 already accomplished that.
What exists to possibly be so afraid of in seeing a future DOA play similarly to DOA4? More DOA success for TN? Or is it some arbitrary Itagaki dickriding where some people just want to make sure TN doesn't succeed without him so they spend all your efforts sabotaging TN's R&D?
Why exactly is there to be so afraid of.

Oh I dunno, maybe because those of us who have been around since the doacentral days and watched the community grow with DoA2U only to watch it die with DoA4? Why would we want a repeat of a game that was widely accepted as a bad game competitively? Why would the community want to go back to a dead community of begging people to show up to tournaments for a game no one liked and getting only 10 people to show up for? Why would the community want to go back to a game that literally did not play like DoA?

DoA5 by and far both commercially and community wise with tournaments was far more successful than DoA4. Hardly anyone here is going to side with you on going back to DoA4 style game play and the whole comment of "sabotaging" TN is weird and trollish to me. Especially if you ask a lot of the veteran players here from DoA4, most of us didn't like Itagaki's reasoning's as he would make weird comments like "a grappler should never beat a ninja." Trying to help Bass in 3.1 he accidentally made him a viable character then made him worthless in 4.

I'm sorry that you think this forum is shitty, but again, you're in the minority here on the subject of DoA4 and you're not going to get very far convincing anyone to agree with you on making doa6 play like doa4, especially when most of us consider doa5 a solid competitive fighter on par with 3.1. Obviously most of us are going to want DoA6 to evolve on what made DoA2, 3.1 and 5 good games.

Shimbori himself has revealed in interviews surrounding this E3 that DOA5 only sold 1 million copies. 11 million downloads for the core fighters version, but just how many people are we expecting to have purchased the upgraded full digital game from this?
If DOA5 was so financially successful for TN, why did they go on a virtual hiatus to soak up Square-Enix and Nintendo contracts? Even Nioh has done far better than DOA5 ever did in selling twice as many copies, and it's already gotten a sequel announced ASAP. They've definitely seen better days since launching DOA5 and those days weren't because of anything DOA related.

I watched the community grow with DOA2U and DOA4 as well, but its utterly retarded to think that even a quarter of genuinly interested DOA players around the world actively use a forum to discuss the game. "That" kind of community doesn't exist here. Jesus there are what, only 20 threads about DOA6 on FSD and they're populated by just a couple dozen users, all in the wake of DOA6's announcement?
Wheres the community?
Wheres the fuckin community?
THIS community that arbitrarily shit on the most popular DOA in warped attempts of invalidating DOA4?
THIS community that supported and stuck with DOA5?

Is this a literal fuckin' joke, man?
DOA5 and Anti-DOA4 users are what killed the DOA community. That is absolutely self evident. If you or anyone actually really enjoyed DOA5, well then good for you cause a lot of people didn't. They couldn't even stomache supporting the game and didn't enjoy it in any capacity, where at least users like yourself got to still enjoy DOA4 even despite your strange opinions of it. But regardless your high opinion of DOA5, you really are in a minority.

 

[Raansu]

DoA4 sold 0.47m. Less than 1 million.

DoA5 vanilla sold over a million. Add in ultimate and LR and its close to 2 million and that is not counting digital sales as those cant be tracked. Add in the 11 million downloads for the free version, its safe to say digital sales could have easily pushed it past 3 million sales. For a fighting game, those are respectable sales numbers.

How busy this forum are doesn't matter. A good chunk of the top players that attend tournaments are not very active on any forum. What matters is that DoA5 tournaments are still pulling 50-100 people. DoA4 tournaments again were lucky to get 10. Getting 20 participants was a good day. That is more than enough to show how the competitive community felt about DoA4.

Again, I'm glad you liked DoA4. I liked DoA4 on a casual level, but again, I have to emphasize this. COMPETITIVELY the game was shallow, this is a fact, it simply was not a good competitive fighter, it had zero depth to it, every character played exactly the same using the exact same tactics, it had no mechanics to them, nothing that made anyone unique.

DoA5 at its very basic level still plays like DoA4 though, so I'm not sure why casuals like you have an issue with it.

Edit:

Lets put it this way. The fact that I was a better player in DoA4 than in 5 speaks volumes to the simplicity that was doa4. Granted some of it could be that I'm just getting old and cant react as well anymore, but in DoA4 I could make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake and still find a way to win. I didn't get punished for fucking something up.

In doa5 if I fuck something up I'm paying for it, and that is 100% how it should be. I made a mistake, I fucked up, the opponent is rewarded for capitalizing on that and punishing my mistake. That is how it should work. A good competitive fighting game doesn't allow you to just keep fucking up over and over and still some how win. If you can, that means you got a fighter with no mechanics in it, i.e. DoA4.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

DoA4 sold 0.47m. Less than 1 million.

DoA5 vanilla sold over a million. Add in ultimate and LR and its close to 2 million and that is not counting digital sales as those cant be tracked. Add in the 11 million downloads for the free version, its safe to say digital sales could have easily pushed it past 3 million sales. For a fighting game, those are respectable sales numbers.

How busy this forum are doesn't matter. A good chunk of the top players that attend tournaments are not very active on any forum. What matters is that DoA5 tournaments are still pulling 50-100 people. DoA4 tournaments again were lucky to get 10. Getting 20 participants was a good day. That is more than enough to show how the competitive community felt about DoA4.

Again, I'm glad you liked DoA4. I liked DoA4 on a casual level, but again, I have to emphasize this. COMPETITIVELY the game was shallow, this is a fact, it simply was not a good competitive fighter, it had zero depth to it, every character played exactly the same using the exact same tactics, it had no mechanics to them, nothing that made anyone unique.

DoA5 at its very basic level still plays like DoA4 though, so I'm not sure why casuals like you have an issue with it.

Edit:

Lets put it this way. The fact that I was a better player in DoA4 than in 5 speaks volumes to the simplicity that was doa4. Granted some of it could be that I'm just getting old and cant react as well anymore, but in DoA4 I could make mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake and still find a way to win. I didn't get punished for fucking something up.

In doa5 if I fuck something up I'm paying for it, and that is 100% how it should be. I made a mistake, I fucked up, the opponent is rewarded for capitalizing on that and punishing my mistake. That is how it should work. A good competitive fighting game doesn't allow you to just keep fucking up over and over and still some how win. If you can, that means you got a fighter with no mechanics in it, i.e. DoA4.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/dead-or-alive-4-breaks-1-million.127767/
Doa4 sold 1 million in just a year on xbox360. Doa5 has had 7 years and four main home consoles.

The implication that you can get away with making mistakes for free in DOA4, where is that coming from? What mistakes are there to make in your mind?
You think just because an opponent beat you to the punch that you deserve to take a full combo? Right on, good for you. Literally every other fighting game operates like this so pick one and leave DOA behind.

The best part of doa4 were how frequent holds were, cause it drew a parallel to real fighting. There are no free combos or guaranteed hits in a real 1 v 1 fight, but even despite this there were still clear arcadey videogame motifs present with launchers and juggles. There were plenty enough guaranteed damage opportunities in DOA4 after juggles or hard knock downs, but the standing game took real constantly applied effort from both players to get to those guaranteed damage setups instead of being based around unreactable jabs and brainfart combo dialing games like other fighters. What is so wrong with admitting DOA4 was unique, and then further admitting that every 3D fighter is unique? Tekken doesn't play like VF, neither play like SC, and none of them play like DOA. Fighting games don't exist under a blanket set of rules and required features to be good, this isn't the early 90's where everything was just a street fighter 2 clone. Some aspects work in some fighters while not working in other fighters, and that's just a fair enough statement to accept as fact.
DOA5 tried too much simultaneously and it ended up losing identity under familiar DOA gameplay in a similar way that Street Fighter EX or KoF:MI or SC5 had tried something completely alien that they never tried again.

Some things about DOA6 really do need to change before the game is released cause they're just too similiar to DOA5 to benefit anyone.

 

[Raansu]

That neogaf link was shipped numbers, not sold numbers.

The implication that you can get away with making mistakes for free in DOA4, where is that coming from? What mistakes are there to make in your mind?

Because you could. If I whiffed an attack and left my back to you, who cares if you stunned me. I could stagger out of it and back into a block immediately. I made the initial mistake, yet I get no punishment for it. In DoA5 I'd pay for that dearly which would make me think twice about throwing out that move willy nilly. That same rule applied in DoA2 and 3.

The best part of doa4 were how frequent holds were, cause it drew a parallel to real fighting

It really wasn't, also what? Real fighting? What? If you want real fighting play a UFC game.

What is so wrong with admitting DOA4 was unique

Because it wasn't unique? How could it possibly be unique when every character played exactly the same? How can a game be unique when it had zero mechanics? The game had no depth to it. It took little to no skill to be even average at the game. Constantly playing a guessing game in a stun heavy game is not skill. The last few years of the games meta devolved into which character had the best force techs...which basically devolved into only Helena, Gen Fu and Hyabusa being the only viable characters. The game was super shallow man.

DOA5 tried too much simultaneously and it ended up losing identity under familiar DOA gameplay.

I find it hard to believe that you ever played DoA2 and 3, because the only thing really different about 5 was the power blows and critical bursts and the command side step. Outside of that, the majority of the mechanics and character tools where pulled directly from 2 and 3 and the stun system from 4 which was slightly changed. You go on about being afraid of DoA6 being similar to 5, which is ironic because DoA5 played more like a DoA game than DoA4 ever did. DoA4 did not play like DoA. It literally REMOVED everything from DoA2 and DoA3 and stripped it down to nothing but stuns and counters. DoA2 and 3 didn't focus anywhere near as much on the stuns as DoA4 did. 2-3 hits and you could get max height in the older DoA games. In DoA4 you need 6-8 hits to reach max height. There was way less guessing and way more skill involved in the older DoA games.

The only reason I can think of anyone possibly thinking DoA4 was a better game would be simple ignorance. You clearly don't know how DoA2 and 3 were played so obviously didn't notice the mechanics that were stripped away in DoA4. Obviously you wouldn't notice how shallow DoA4 was and why the competitive community doesn't like it.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

Just don't reply anymore.

 

[NewWestFan]

That was both intense to read and informative.

Just glad there are fans that passionate about the series! I think 5 is a great game and lots of fun. I have a lot of faith and high hopes for 6.

 

[jjinkou2]

ahem.. my post is on DOA6 gameplay issue, so i'm not sure if i'm in the correct thread since everything post above is about DOA i don't care.

I find that the throwdown stage is very dark and almost incorrectly lighten. I fear that it will be difficult to follow opponent's gameplay. Playing against helena is usually difficult to follow, if you add shadow everywhere, that would be like fighting in a blindbox.

I'm note daredevil so I would suggest to lighten a bit this stage.

 

[NightAntilli]

If there's one thing I miss from DOA4, it's the clean and bright environments. Everything looks so gritty in all the other DOA games.

 

[DestructionBomb]

The only noteworthy portion that was the best of DOA4 was the stages, everything else was for kids.

You could hold someone after getting wallsplatted. Son, of course DOA4 died when shit like that happens lol.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

The only noteworthy portion that was the best of DOA4 was the stages, everything else was for kids.

You could hold someone after getting wallsplatted. Son, of course DOA4 died when shit like that happens lol.

No, wallsplat was a down state. I think you mean wallbounce but even if you did, you simply are playing the game wrong and also being a sore loser if you complain about it.

Theres already more than enough objective proof that DOA4 was an extremely popular game so these idiotic attempts at trying to tear it down are default invalid. If you didn't like DOA4, you were just shit at the game, and that's the end of the story.

I've never seen a more cucked group of people than you sad chaps, convinced by foreigners in the FGC to hate the best fighting game in your favorite franchise. Absolute retards.

 

[DestructionBomb]

No, wallsplat was a down state. I think you mean wallbounce but even if you did, you simply are playing the game wrong and also being a sore loser if you complain about it.

Theres already more than enough objective proof that DOA4 was an extremely popular game so these idiotic attempts at trying to tear it down are default invalid. If you didn't like DOA4, you were just shit at the game, and that's the end of the story.

Son, get good. Stay on that game with the vast minority of simpletons who can't evolve. You never pop up at these events in pools that we all go to anyway.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

Son, get good. Stay on that game with the vast minority of simpletons who can't evolve. You never pop up at these events in pools that we all go to anyway so your post was irrelevant. We'll make sure to tell the team to keep going from here on out and leave the dust that is DOA4. Get bodied or get bodied. Pick one, the answer is obvious.

No one fucking attends DOA5 tournaments you uppity idiot, dear jesus. Just how important do you think the FGC is? It fucking isn't, at all. Normal people do not have the time to fucking travel around to play videogames. Its pretty much guaranteed that the most attendance a DOA5 tournament will have will be this year's side-evo event, and even then it's probably more about the interest in DOA6.

What fucking idiocy is this?
The DOA tournament scene mattered literally one time in history so far and it was with DOA4.

Let me correct myself. I dont know if anyone attends DOA5 tournaments cause no one watches this shit. No one cares. Whats the value of being the best player in a small bubble of people that no one else in the FGC will know about? Wheres the value in that? There are only a couple valid associated names with DOA and they're Master, Swoozie, Perfect Legend, basically just the literal 6 people who kept showing up at these bubble tournaments. Like god bless them for caring, but you know what? I never went to DOA in Dallas cause I don't have a fucking week to take off of life and time to drive 1000 miles to texas. Who fuckin cares.
Fuck the FGC honestly. And I don't mean it in a blanket statement. I mean it in the sense that fuck you idiots for thinking your literal handful of people are all that are interested in DOA competitively and all that should matter to TN's attention. You literal idiots are the reason DOA5 was such a poor selling hunk of trash, not the alien mechanics. We could have just as easily had a game with PBs and CBs and Universal Sidesteps, except using normal DOA4 ruleset rather than being built on the literal subhuman glitch bugfest that was the DOA3 ruleset.

Its trash compactors like DOA3-elitests and DOA5-elitests that shut this community down.
Move the fuck over and realize that the only DOA the world ever cared about was DOA4.

 

[DestructionBomb]

No one fucking attends DOA5 tournaments you uppity idiot, dear jesus. Just how important do you think the FGC is? It fucking isn't, at all. Normal people do not have the time to fucking travel around to play videogames. Its pretty much guaranteed that the most attendance a DOA5 tournament will have will be this year's side-evo event, and even then it's probably more about the interest in DOA6.

What fucking idiocy is this?
The DOA tournament scene mattered literally one time in history so far and it was with DOA4.

Doesn't matter. If you not picking up DOA6 then you are just "one" customer that doesn't affect their profit. Your precious DOA4 no longer exist and we all moved on from it because we evolved.

Since this thread is practically made up by an individual still mourning about the loss of DOA4, hopefully this thread gets locked along with your dreams.

 

[CounterTerrorist]

Doesn't matter. If you not picking up DOA6 then you are just "one" customer that doesn't affect their profit. Your precious DOA4 no longer exist and we all moved on from it because we evolved.

Since this thread is practically made up by an individual still mourning about the loss of DOA4, hopefully this thread gets locked along with your dreams.

Oh wow, locking a DOA4 discussion thread on FSD? Thats a good one, never heard it before. Did you come up with that joke all on your own?
Painting the walls red.
I don't know why you assume I wont buy DOA6 or why you assume you will.