Improving the Neutral: Shimbori Talks System Changes

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Tokyo Game Show 2018 (TGS) took place between the dates of September 20th to September 23rd in the Chiba prefecture outside Tokyo, Japan. It was my first time attending the event, and I had the fortune to visit it during the press-exclusive days of the 20th and 21st in addition to the public days that followed. I came to the event with one goal: To play as much Dead or Alive 6 that I could at the Koei-Tecmo booth. I had previously had the chance to try an earlier demo during the Evolution 2018 (Evo) championships event this past summer, and was looking forward to seeing what had been updated.

I focused primarily on the new character to the series, Diego, at the Evo event since my preferred character (Bass) was not available. I had heard murmurs from the other players that they found Diego to be too strong in such an early build, and wanted to see how he might have been changed. While it's too early to say whether a character is over or under powered, I would have to say that Diego isn't an over-powered character. Based on my experiences with the character at both events, and granted some "character bias" may be in effect here, I would say the character certainly has good throw damage, a good 1PP, and a nice 1K poke. However, he doesn't have much of a good critical game. That is to say, outside of a good Fatal Rush string, he doesn't have any real way to guarantee launchers or extend critical.

Evo was a more hectic and fast-paced event due to the demonstration booths being set up in a way to promote playing the demo with another player. Players would be escorted to stations in a two-man group. This is in contrast to the experience I had at TGS where people were being escorted on a single player basis. A lot of that design is most likely due to a combination of the atmosphere and the culture surrounding the event, especially on the Press-exclusive days. What this meant for me as a fan of the series since I first played Dead or Alive++ was that I would spend most of my time alone with the build. Trust me when I say trying to manage two controllers or arcade sticks to test frame specific timings is a difficult task. Furthermore, the TGS build did not offer an option to see Move Details, even though the option had been announced in the months prior to the event. This limited what I was able to figure out about the build.

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Public days at TGS were packed with a line exceeding an hour wait.


The public days didn't fare much better, as the language barrier made it difficult to express desire to test or show things of the system. I had to also keep reminding myself that this was the first time 99.9% of those in attendance were even getting a chance to experience Dead or Alive 6 in any form. The players weren't afforded the opportunities I was by having not only the three days at Evo to get a baseline feel, but the two additional Press days I had with the TGS build. That being said, I was able to get a few matches in with other players like Miyabin and Demekun (Links are to recorded match videos), and it was certainly nice to experience playing Dead or Alive 6 with my preferred controller style of an arcade stick.

The first thing I wanted to test out was the idea of free cancelling the Break Blow cinematic. This was actually a feature from all the way back in the E3 announcement, but it was never announced or shown off properly. I didn't get any time to practice this feature during Evo because I did not find out about it until the stations had already closed. The Break Blow Cancel is done by pressing the Hold button during a small window after the Break Blow lands but before the cinematic kicks off. This effectively uses your full gauge to reset the Critical system and leave the opponent in a Fatal Stun, instead of using it for one hard knock back hit. This also means that since you can juggle an opponent with a Fatal Rush that automatically blends into a Break Blow should you have 100% Break Gauge, you can do a short juggle and re-stand your opponent to launch them again provided your opponent does not Break Hold with 50% of their gauge. Interestingly, if you mash on the Hold button while either in start up of the Break Blow or after the hit has landed, the game seems to ignore the cancel. So the cancel is something that has to be timed specifically with care.

Image: /images/news/8060/26173.jpgNow, testing out the Break Blow Cancel I had many ideas and strategies come to my mind on possibilities of combo extensions, utilizing danger zones, and taking further advantage on an opponent who either had no meter to Break Hold or wasted it by whiffing one. However, while there certainly are long guaranteed combos that are possible, I began to notice that damage revision picks up rather fast once you have launched the opponent. Since Move Details were not available, it's quite difficult to guess at the percentage of revision. I was verified later by Team NINJA community manager Emmanuel "Master" Rodriguez that there is some heavy revision after a few juggle hits have occurred. Additionally, knocking an opponent into a danger zone, while giving them a possible opportunity to hold in some danger zones, doesn't appear to fully reset the Critical system as some combos in the initial Critical state wouldn't appear to work in these "reset" situations as it only allowed fewer hits. Eventually, I began to find combos where doing the Break Blow Cancel, extending the Critical stuns, and relaunching into a Danger Zone seemed to provide more damage than had I not cancelled to begin with. However, that is at the risk of an opponent holding out of the stuns should they gain meter and want to use them.

Additionally, the Critical state itself seemed to have been lessened. Overall, I got a feeling that while stuns were longer due to the removal of Stagger Escape and of long Fatal Stuns, the game seemed to have more focus on the Neutral game. That is, similar to Dead or Alive 2 and Dead or Alive 3, the first hit is the most important. Couple all that with the removal of the Critical Threshold Launch system introduced in Dead or Alive 4 where the closer to full Critical meant a higher launch, and the game feels like a return to the Stun-Launch system of old. This means that you are no longer required to play the Critical game. Your launch height is the same regardless of whether the opponent was early or late in the Critical Threshold system. The lack of Stagger Escape then also makes a lot of critical stuns be "Must Hold" situations.

On top of that, I was able to verify that the Critical System's Damage limits also have had a reduction. By testing with Hayabusa's jab (it's always been 10 damage in every Dead or Alive game) I was able to verify that Dead or Alive 6, at least at the time of the TGS build, has a smaller Critical System. It still plays off the core change introduced in Dead or Alive 4 where the attack putting the opponent into Critical won't count towards the damage threshold. Specifically, I was able to verify that the new damage limits are at 25/30/35 for normal, counter, and hi-counter blow. This is different from Dead or Alive 5 where the limits were 28/35/42. This further leads to the idea that Dead or Alive 6 appears to be having a more focused effort to strengthen the neutral meta-game and lower the amount of time during a match that the game is spent playing the Critical meta-game.

Another area I tested out was the side step system. It practically was unchanged from the Evo demo where the neutral side step felt exactly the same as Dead or Alive 5 and the side step attack felt extremely evasive. However, one instance while playing a pro player in the game stands out to me. I was demonstrating a lot of the system changes to the player, and during our casual matches I was abusing his very linear Hitomi with the side step attack. He exclaimed in shock, "I feel like I have to be careful with how and when I attack!". Instantly, we both felt that strengthening of the neutral game the system now has. To actually have the experience where the game wasn't all about the Critical system was very relieving for me as a player. I had other areas of the game I could focus my strategies on. I'm unsure if I can completely put into words my feelings at that moment, but I just remember me growing a smile.

I like that the Fatal Rush is a high attack, this makes high and low holding stronger, which in turn makes mid-hitting launchers more powerful. Keep in mind that launchers are scarier now as you don't have to play that stun game to get a good launch. While low holding might seem more powerful than a high hold, it's good to keep in mind that a launching attack will launch an opponent higher if they are in crouch state or holding low when hit. One good hit and you can find yourself on the receiving end of a danger zone, especially if your stage positioning and character match-up knowledge is poor. I feel that having the Fatal Rush as a high helps the balance of the attacks, the critical meta, and the game - at least in my view.

That being said, from my experiences at both Evo and TGS, I can say you can still play the game similarly to the style of Dead or Alive 5. It's just that the style may not be the optimal style to play this game, though it currently is the most popular due to players having seven years to practice the Dead or Alive 5 style. Of course, players haven't been given a lot of time with the game due to limited demos and the game is still changing as development continues. It excites me to think of what could be discovered once the game releases in February.

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Yohei Shimbori provided me an interview shortly after the event stream was turned off for the day.



On September 22nd, shortly after the event stream was turned off, I was able to get some time to talk to Dead or Alive 6 Producer and Director Yohei Shimbori. The interview was being done through a bilingual interpreter, and in doing so it is possible some of the wording may have been altered from Shimbori's original intent.

Matt Ponton (MP): The players have noticed that there is no Stagger Escape in Dead or Alive 6's demos. What was the thought process that went along with that decision, and why was it removed from the game after being in the system since Dead or Alive 2?

Image: /images/news/8060/26158.jpgYohei Shimbori (YS): So we started to remove the Stagger Escape mechanic because we didn’t want people to struggle with it; we don't want that to be an artificial skill barrier in order to become good at the game. Players aware of Stagger Escape were able to really speed up recovery and generally did so to the fastest degree, but for people who are new to the game the inclusion of Stagger Escape is hardly noticeable. So we really wanted to make the entry point a lot easier for newer players to the game by making fast recovery the default. So that's one of the reasons why we decided to remove it.

MP: With that in consideration, are you also keeping other areas of the system in mind in regards to balance, such as the Free Step Dash Cancel bug?

YS: The Free Step Dash Cancel bug is something we're looking to fix if it hasn't already been done. Were you able to perform it in this Tokyo Game Show demo?

Master: I have not been able to reproduce the Free Step Dash Cancel bug in the Dead or Alive 6 demo.

YS: So, that's something a small portion of the audience would like something like that, but really for the larger audience we definitely don't want that to be in the game. At one point we did consider incorporating that into the system, but then we thought that it would make it even harder for newer players to enter the game and so we decided against it.

MP: In my own tests on this demo I wasn't able to reproduce it as well. I wanted to make sure that the lack of Stagger Escape wouldn't be abusable with such a bug in the existing Critical System changes. In those tests I also noticed that the critical threshold has been shortened from 28/35/42 to 25/30/35 for normal/counter/hi-counter blow critical stun. It seems that there is less time in critical stun throughout the total time of the round itself. What led your team to decide to lower the amount of time spent in Critical state?

YS: Similar to the previous answer, we wanted to make something for every player. It's something that for people really good at the game they can more easily recover from that, but it's a lot harder for people who are newer. So we've adjusted that as well to make it easier for various types of players. We think it adds an additional layer to the strategy that's involved into the game. You know, it's not just simply about mind games that you're trying to fool the other player, but you really have to think and analyze things through. So this makes it even better for the more expert players.

MP: What led to the decision to remove the Critical Level Launch system that was featured in Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive 5, where a higher Critical Level would reward a higher launch? Is this in relation to the theme of making it easier for new players and decreasing the amount of time a match is spent in Critical State?

YS: That's right. It is the result of decreasing the time spent in reading the critical game and emphasizing the neutral game.

MP: There's a lot of fans out there of Dead or Alive 4 and Dead or Alive 5's ground game. So what changes can they look forward to seeing in Dead or Alive 6 to help them keep pressure and perform setups against players laying on the ground?

YS: So in terms of the ground game, this is something that requires a lot of precise adjustments. You know, one wrong move can really upset the entire system. So it is something that we are still balancing at this point. It's not completely about force teching, and so we want to make sure that there are options for players who want to decide to take it on or want to try and counter it. Also, we are giving people the option of whether they want to get up on their own when they are knocked down. The significance of this may depend on the skill level of the player. But, let’s see how this evolves as we are still adjusting and balancing this feature.

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"We are looking to provide the game equally across all platforms. So we're not just focusing on Steam, but we are concentrating on all platforms being equal."


MP: Speaking of giving players an option to decide, Dead or Alive is the only major 3D Fighting game currently without a universal throw break system. Are there any plans in the future of adding more throws that are breakable on reaction?

YS: A universal throw break system is something that always comes up each time we make a new Dead or Alive game. Dead or Alive is really known for the triangle system, and that's something that we really value for this series. So if immediately you could just always do throw breaks we don't think it will make it a well-balanced game. So having all characters and all moves being able to do that is not something we are planning on incorporating. But one thing we are kind of looking at from a technical level is having around a five frame window for the throw break, and so the speed at which you break the throw will alter the advantage and disadvantage of the throw break. We think if we implement too much of it then it would really change that balance of what Dead or Alive is.

Image: /images/news/8060/26170.jpgMP: So the throw system is something that's still being worked on like the ground game?

YS: Yes, very much so. We're still working on many parts of the system as we come closer to Dead or Alive 6's release.

MP: Dead or Alive 6 appears to be using Steam as its lead platform. Since Dead or Alive 5 Last Round was the series' first foray into the personal computer world, is there anything that Steam users can look forward to specifically with Dead or Alive 6?

YS: We are looking to provide the game equally across all platforms. So we're not just focusing on Steam, but we are concentrating on all platforms being equal. We are aiming for them to be all equal, so the fact that there's a lobby feature is something that we would implement in all versions. That is something we are aiming for right now. Obviously, we are still in the middle of development so we can't exactly say what is going to be in the final product. Our plan is to aim to make the game equal across all platforms. So no matter which platform you own, we hope players should expect the same thing. Specifically for PC or Steam, everyone has different specs for their computers. So in terms of people who have high system specs, we are making it so that the graphics are the highest quality possible. For people who have lower system specs, something we are looking into now is how far we can support the lower end PCs and so that's something that's still under review.

MP: So Phase 4 and Nyotengu are two characters who are going to be early DLC characters. Fans of those two characters were a little upset that those two characters weren't added to the Dead or Alive 5 story upon their release. How will these two characters participate in the Dead or Alive 6 story?

YS: It depends on the character. We did just mention on the Tokyo Game Show stage that Nyotengu is getting a bit of a story for herself, but in terms of Phase 4 we don't really know at this point. It's a secret.

MP: So the story hasn't been finalized yet?

YS: We do have the story, but we just don't have the visuals to go with it yet.

MP: I unfortunately am being told I'm almost out of time here so I have one more hopefully quick question for you: Is Lisa dead?

YS: Lisa is alive. Actually, In Dead or Alive 5 when the M.I.S.T. laboratory exploded, she... Oops I cannot say any more.

That concluded my time with Yohei Shimbori and my experience at Tokyo Game Show. Dead or Alive 6 will be releasing on February 15, 2019 for PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and Steam. The next playable demo for Dead or Alive 6 will be at the Dead or Alive Festival 2018 event at the Ochanomizu Sola City Conference Center in Tokyo, Japan on November 18.
 
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1,DOA6‘s auto combo,well you can not hold,unless you got meter,even you hold it,the damage is negligible.With SE is removed,auto combo's slow start up frames won't be a issue too,so smart players will utilize this mechanic frequencyly in match.Therefore,many of mind game tricks are gone with the very auto combo too.

It was the same story with DoA5 and its plethora of unholdable Stuns... Guaranteed Damage is guaranteed damage... in the end its all the same.... except now you can save yourself with Meter... which I'm still not sold on.

Well I'm glade that DOA6 add some new cool mechanics (including auto combo too),what I'm not happy is that TN wanna make a easier game for attracking newcomers,Actually DOA series is always a newcomer friendly game,but extremely hard to be pro.

Its certainly not a huge Barrier like Tekken and VF...

So far I haven't seen anything in DoA6 that looks like Busy Work... I feel like if your game is fully of Busy Work then it can't be called accessible.
 
It was the same story with DoA5 and its plethora of unholdable Stuns... Guaranteed Damage is guaranteed damage... in the end its all the same.... except now you can save yourself with Meter... which I'm still not sold on.



Its certainly not a huge Barrier like Tekken and VF...

So far I haven't seen anything in DoA6 that looks like Busy Work... I feel like if your game is fully of Busy Work then it can't be called accessible.
same story?I don't think so,actually unholdable stuns have existed in this series for a long time,even in DOA2,there are limbo stuns.DOA5 just perfect this very ”unholdable stun” mechanic which I think it's totally fine.Like I said,this change was a perfection,not a removement,which is fine.
 
same story?I don't think so,actually unholdable stuns have existed in this series for a long time,even in DOA2,there are limbo stuns.DOA5 just perfect this very ”unholdable stun” mechanic which I think it's totally fine.Like I said,this change was a perfection,not a removement,which is fine.

There are guaranteed aren't they ?

Its the same thing. They just gave it a new name and fancier animation.

Now if it was a "Fatal Grab" then that would be something new... :p
 
There are guaranteed aren't they ?

Its the same thing. They just gave it a new name and fancier animation.

Now if it was a "Fatal Grab" then that would be something new... :p
Kinda different,in some dgrees,Fatal-Rush literally denies other low speed high launchers for every single character.This is a simplification,not a perfection.
For instance,if you as mila stun your opponent by 6P in DOA6,why would you ever use 8K to launch him? Clearly FF is much more dangerous than a normal 8K, In DOA5,your opponent could use SE to avoid these low speed launchers,so during the stun there would be many mind games to play.In DOA6,all these mind games are gone ,and TN said it's for newcomer-friendly.
Actually,you can consider FatalRush as a low speed high move that guarantees some follow-ups,kinda like christie's p+k、 genfu's 4p+k etc in DOA5,but in DOA5's system all these moves could be SE and blocked in most quick stuns,which is critical,giving other faster high moves a chance to be used,while in DOA6,button mash combo seems becoming the best choice lol,you don't need to bother that lol.
For now,DOA6's high level matches would be ugly to watch,even worse than DOA5LR,due to the auto-combo&FT-cancellation.knowledgable players will focus on spacing and do the same auto combo.After TGS tested myself,I'm kinda disappointed and this game will come out in 4 months,so I'm worrying whether TN could perfect DOA6's system properly in time.
Anyway,I love this game and already pre-ordered,so let's see ;)
 
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These changes are the best decisions Shimbori and the team have made so far. It's both very good for people coming into the game and for those already in it. It's essentially what SEGA did with VF every iteration of the game; by making it easier for new players to get into the game and or the old players to remain there and transfer their legacy knowledge and skill.
 
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1,DOA6‘s auto combo,well you can not hold,unless you got meter,even you hold it,the damage is negligible.With SE is removed,auto combo's slow start up frames won't be a issue too,so smart players will utilize this mechanic frequencyly in match.Therefore,many of mind game tricks are gone with the very auto combo too.
2,Actually one reason that why high level players are so hard to deal with is not only they know one more option when they get stun,but also they are very good at neutral games,ask yourself,have you ever met a noobass player could SE any lee's HK sitdown stun? SE is not a perfect、easy tool like literally escape any stun ,while it is only helpful to a good player whose have a solid neutral game.
Totally missing the point. Just because players have good neutral doesn't mean that neutral is emphasized.

Neutral is emphasized in DOA6, because the consequences for losing in the neutral are greater thanks to stuff like Fatal Rush that cannot be held, and the removal of slow escapes. The more options you give players put in stun, then the less important neutral because because they have ways to get out of combos/damage.

3,Shout out for matt"san" gives out this great interview,and I believe he's not suppose to judge DOA6's system in his position ,and TN are still working on it.To my opinon, this going back to DOA3 is a totally wrong way,no offence,DOA3 was a broke game,few people really consider it as a serious fighting game,I think DOA2U was the first "serous" DOA but system kinda simple.After evolved during these 12 years(DOA4,DOA5),tits DOA became e-sport DOA.System tends to be perfect like character balance,neural games and depth. Well I'm glade that DOA6 add some new cool mechanics (including auto combo too),what I'm not happy is that TN wanna make a easier game for attracking newcomers,Actually DOA series is always a newcomer friendly game,but extremely hard to be pro.Like berzerk said the game needs deeper levels of play after people get into it. Newbies also want to know there’s more after they’ve learned the basics
This is a pretty ignorant statement, especially here. For the longest time, DOA3 (specifically 3.1) was the game that carried the competitive DOA community. 3.1 was pretty much the competitive standard before 5 (especially after the shit show that was 4).
 
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Totally missing the point. Just because players have good neutral doesn't mean that neutral is emphasized.

Neutral is emphasized in DOA6, because the consequences for losing in the neutral are greater thanks to stuff like Fatal Rush that cannot be held, and the removal of slow escapes.

This is a pretty ignorant statement, especially here. For the longest time, DOA3 (specifically 3.1) was the game that carried the competitive DOA community. 3.1 was pretty much the competitive standard before 5 (especially after the shit show that was 4).
This is just simplification,not emphasizing.Have you ever heard a game called DiveKick? In your logic,well this game is a great neutral fighting game lol
and like I said before,3-way hold was a mistake,and TN fixed it in DOA2U which was great,every single 3-way hold DOA,are trash.I hope you played DOAD before,basically a 3-way hold &auto combo DOA4.Yes,fun to play ,but as a e-sports game?pfrrrr
PS:DOA3 carried the competitive doesn't mean it was a good game,thanks to Itagaki DOA series more like a tits game than a fighting game,in DOA4 age,with the support of MS,DOA had it chance to become the best 3D FTG in FTG conmmunity,well you must know the after story lol,and you can't deny the fact that how unbalanced that game was(still better than DOA3 tho lol)
 
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This is just simplification,not emphasizing.Have you ever heard a game called DiveKick? In your logic,well this game is a great neutral fighting game lol
and like I said before,3-way hold was a mistake,and TN fixed it in DOA2U which was great,every single 3-way hold DOA,are trash.I hope you played DOAD before,basically a 3-way hold &auto combo DOA4.Yes,fun to play ,but as a e-sports game?pfrrrr
3-way hold was fine in 3.1 because of the fact that the game had much more in the way of guaranteed damage - something that happened partly because of how the game didn't yet have the critical threshold system that 4 and 5 had (the other factor being that it didn't allow you to hold out of as many situations as 4 did - something 5 fixed as well).

3 (and 2) emphasized neutral because of how much more punishing losing out in the neutral could be, thanks to the guaranteed damage.

And yes, despite being made as a joke, DiveKick still actually emphasizes a lot of the important neutral game skills (spacing, timing, yomi, etc.) needed to succeed in a fighting game.
 
3-way hold was fine in 3.1 because of the fact that the game had much more in the way of guaranteed damage - something that happened partly because of how the game didn't yet have the critical threshold system that 4 and 5 had (the other factor being that it didn't allow you to hold out of as many situations as 4 did - something 5 fixed as well).

3 (and 2) emphasized neutral because of how much more punishing losing out in the neutral could be, thanks to the guaranteed damage.

And yes, despite being made as a joke, DiveKick still actually emphasizes a lot of the important neutral game skills (spacing, timing, yomi, etc.) needed to succeed in a fighting game.
yep,in DOA3 you can simply got your opponent 60% lifebar by only one single guess,and that's why DOA3 was broken ,like a tits version Divekick lol.

Clearly we have big divergence on how to define a good fighting game and what is a good neutral game,in recent years every single successful FTG(SFV,TK7 etc) tend to be strict in damage adjusment with an offensive-encouraging system.I believe a neutral game like Divekick is a joke,it's wrong,totally going against a serious FTG.
 
did you also dream of DOA installing rootkits and purposedly adding RNG input lag? ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)
lol,never
Input lag issue is suck,they said capcom fixed this in S3,but I don't really care lol
Well maybe KT should try SFV's operation mode,I mean pay2play mode in DOA6,and also copy that awesome record system into it would be nice
 
But you couldn't stagger out of it... at best you could only shorten the stagger... I don't think anyone was perfectly okay with Getting hit.

Depends on the follow up. Someone keeps bringing up Jann Lee's h+k to CB setup. You can stagger out of that CB setup to at worse just get hit with a light stun, and at best you can stagger right into a block. If he's close enough to do 9k, then ya you are gonna get launched. If he has to dash forward though from the pushback of h+k's knockdown then no he wont get the guaranteed launch and you can stagger into a block.
 
Depends on the follow up. Someone keeps bringing up Jann Lee's h+k to CB setup. You can stagger out of that CB setup to at worse just get hit with a light stun, and at best you can stagger right into a block. If he's close enough to do 9k, then ya you are gonna get launched. If he has to dash forward though from the pushback of h+k's knockdown then no he wont get the guaranteed launch and you can stagger into a block.

Then they'l just always do the Guaranteed Follow Up... like I do... I never bothered with Fraudulent Stun Setups... I only use what I know will connect...

That being said I have seen some people get away with Jan Lee's :H+K: simply because by the time you realise you need to Stagger Escape it its already too late... its the same thing with Rig's :7::P:...

Using Stagger Escape on Reaction literally didn't work 90% of the time just because of how long it takes to recognize the situation.

Kinda different,in some dgrees,Fatal-Rush literally denies other low speed high launchers for every single character.This is a simplification,not a perfection.
For instance,if you as mila stun your opponent by 6P in DOA6,why would you ever use 8K to launch him? Clearly FF is much more dangerous than a normal 8K, In DOA5,your opponent could use SE to avoid these low speed launchers,so during the stun there would be many mind games to play.In DOA6,all these mind games are gone ,and TN said it's for newcomer-friendly.
Actually,you can consider FatalRush as a low speed high move that guarantees some follow-ups,kinda like christie's p+k、 genfu's 4p+k etc in DOA5,but in DOA5's system all these moves could be SE and blocked in most quick stuns,which is critical,giving other faster high moves a chance to be used,while in DOA6,button mash combo seems becoming the best choice lol,you don't need to bother that lol.
For now,DOA6's high level matches would be ugly to watch,even worse than DOA5LR,due to the auto-combo&FT-cancellation.knowledgable players will focus on spacing and do the same auto combo.After TGS tested myself,I'm kinda disappointed and this game will come out in 4 months,so I'm worrying whether TN could perfect DOA6's system properly in time.
Anyway,I love this game and already pre-ordered,so let's see ;)

I didn't understand any of that... :(

LOOOOOOOL

Good point. One thing that still turns me off SFV is that it has more built in latency than DOA5. And this is AE too.

Did it ? I always thought they were the same... atleast as far as the PC Version is concerned due to its lack of proper optimization.
 
Then they'l just always do the Guaranteed Follow Up... like I do... I never bothered with Fraudulent Stun Setups... I only use what I know will connect...

That being said I have seen some people get away with Jan Lee's :H+K: simply because by the time you realise you need to Stagger Escape it its already too late... its the same thing with Rig's :7::P:...

Using Stagger Escape on Reaction literally didn't work 90% of the time just because of how long it takes to recognize the situation.

You're not supposed to use SE on reaction. Its a constant thing you build during a stun and throughout the match (like I said, its a meter). If you think they are going for a certain setup you gotta go for the hold and not the stagger.
 
You're not supposed to use SE on reaction. Its a constant thing you build during a stun and throughout the match (like I said, its a meter). If you think they are going for a certain setup you gotta go for the hold and not the stagger.

I know... it just really bugs me no matter how I use it... VF is even worse because those staggers just pop out if no where...

Was that thing ever useful ?
 
Did it ? I always thought they were the same... atleast as far as the PC Version is concerned due to its lack of proper optimization.

PC version of DOA5 I believe has 1 frame delay? I could be wrong, @WAZAAAAA would know for sure. PS4 version has about 7 frames more than whatever the PC version has due to the system's inherent delay. SFV had about 8 frames of delay on PC, and I think they just announced they are able to shave off 2 more frames with an upcoming update to Unreal? Oh, and SFV's frame delay was variable, even offline. You could be playing at any moment and it changes the input delay by 2 or 3 frames, on the consoles as well.
 
I know... it just really bugs me no matter how I use it... VF is even worse because those staggers just pop out if no where...

Was that thing ever useful ?

In VF? Hell yes, but their stuns are similar yet completely different to how stuns work in DoA.

All of this is kind of a moot point though. I don't like SE, you don't like SE, its gone in DoA6, hurrah! lol
 
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