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Pseudo-force tech setups

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shinryu

Active Member
Does every character have a good force tech option after some/all hard knockdowns, or is it a tactic limited to/better for specific characters? I'm curious because this seems like a situation where it could really change the complexion of the game, as it's one of the few areas where slower characters can get some advantage to press, and it would probably change preferred combos depending on style and need for damage.

As far as I know:

Bass: Ground throw is an obvious force tech, kind of core to his game.
Tina: 6f+k can force tech after 6f+k, guessing 3p+k and juggle 8p, not sure of advantage but evidently sufficient to give another 6f+k.
Mila: At least three force techs after 9p or 3f+k, possibly p+k in the air: 2p2p (2 damage, +29 advantage), 3f+k (12 damage, +19 advantage), 2f+k(12 damage, +15 advantage but big pushback).
Helena: Has at least one but I'm not sure which it is, might be 1kk?

I'm guessing Hitomi's 3f+k will do it. Nothing comes to mind for Bayman which could be a relative weakness given his speed. So, can everybody get one off? Does it force large frame advantage for everyone, or are something like Mila's very strong force techs (where she is in perfect position to reset with 3f+k/9p or to go for a takedown and there's nothing the opponent can do but a defense) unique to her? It's an interesting question for strategy and tier purposes.
 
synce

synce

Well-Known Member
I think all they did wa substitute a force tech/ground grab for a ground bounce. The attacks leading into it all slam opponent into the ground. It looks like only the grapplers get it, but if you say so maybe Helena too
 
Brute

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Certain characters defiantely have better ones. I can't say for the whole roster, as I don't play all of them extensively, but most characters will have at least one if not more. Hayabusa's got several, arguably the most effective being 9K.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
Interesting, I'll have to explore. It's a huge weapon for Mila and Tina and probably Helena if hers is actually good; Mila almost seems to be built around forcing constant pressure and Tina and Helena need the frame advantage badly after a knockdown. Unsurprising Hayabusa has one; do you know the frame advantage and if he has guaranteed setups? Or are they all techable? The other element of the puzzle is the techability; if everybody's got one but the grapplers are the only characters who get guaranteed setups that makes a difference. I'm sure the ninjas or Jann Lee have awesome ones, though. It's just how the game seems to work.
 
AK The Savage

AK The Savage

Member
I love the posts you have on here OP because you ask alot of the same questions that i want to ask as well,I've been trying to figure out if Leifang has any ways to force tech as well,and what combo to use to set it up,so if anyone has any tech for her i would greatly appreciate it.

To add to what the other poster said,i do believe everyone does have a way to force tech,but some are way better than others,i just think it boils down to finding the right combo to set it up if you are using a character who doesnt have a good one. I Know Hitomi and Hayate both have some good ones (Hitomi's 4P and her wheel kick are good but i forgot the input sorry,and Hayate's 3PK i believe?) but i havent played most of the cast extensively so i cant be much help to you sorry.
 
Doug Nguyen

Doug Nguyen

Well-Known Member
Hitomi has a really good low kick one that comes out really fast and she recovers from it fast. Helena has a few but most are are true force techs. Brad has a few, Hayabusa and Kokorro. Most fighters have one i think. But not like the DOA4 force teching.
 
daman077c

daman077c

Active Member
AK The Savage said:
I love the posts you have on here OP because you ask alot of the same questions that i want to ask as well,I've been trying to figure out if Leifang has any ways to force tech as well,and what combo to use to set it up,so if anyone has any tech for her i would greatly appreciate it.
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Leifang's H+K force techs, and if you're quick enough, you can get 3KP+K out of it (or 3P+K, if you want to eliminate the mid kick starter). As for a combo to set it up, I use it after 66KK and ostensibly after a CB combo (236P, PPP, 236P, 8K, PP6PP, H+K, 3KP+K, PP6PP, for example). It's really up to whether or not your opponent decides to not tech roll, or mistimes the input to tech roll, as Leifang isn't a character who lives by her CB and Power Blow, she's more about her parries and advanced holds.
 
AK The Savage

AK The Savage

Member
daman077c said:
Leifang's H+K force techs, and if you're quick enough, you can get 3KP+K out of it (or 3P+K, if you want to eliminate the mid kick starter). As for a combo to set it up, I use it after 66KK and ostensibly after a CB combo (236P, PPP, 236P, 8K, PP6PP, H+K, 3KP+K, PP6PP, for example). It's really up to whether or not your opponent decides to not tech roll, or mistimes the input to tech roll, as Leifang isn't a character who lives by her CB and Power Blow, she's more about her parries and advanced holds.
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Hmm im in training right now with her but i cant seem to get her 3KP+K to connect after her H+K...does it have to be a counter blow or something? Thanks for that input man im gonna try doing it as we speak! Hahaha!
 
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shinryu

Active Member
Yeah, I just saw the pseudo-force for Helena; i'm curious to see if she's got a real one. I'm wondering if 6p whiffs if it's just an option to continue the string or if you can really mix up other stuff.
 
Doug Nguyen

Doug Nguyen

Well-Known Member
shinryu said:
Yeah, I just saw the pseudo-force for Helena; i'm curious to see if she's got a real one. I'm wondering if 6p whiffs if it's just an option to continue the string or if you can really mix up other stuff.
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I forgot his name but he came up with a true force tech, its BKO throw 33P BKO PP1K. And i can confirm it works. But i prefer BKO throw 4PPK 33P4P, this isnt a true force tech, since they can tech roll but you get the same frame advantage anyways. If they dont force tech then i can do 6P.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Everyone can force tech, it's just only certain characters actually get legit force tech's while others only get it if you don't tech roll. Personally I think if you opt to end a juggle with a slam instead of a knockback you should always get a force tech. Giving up damage for a force tech is a fair trade in my book.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
Interesting. Do we have a list of real vs. pseudo force techs? I do think it's going to be a big deal for the grapplers and slower/unsafe characters in general to make up some pressure if they do get a knockdown, and it really seems to reduce the utility of ground throws in a lot of situations. On the other hand if Jann Lee can force them all the time, well lol DOA then. Let's give someone with every way to force frame advantage more ways to force frame advantage.
 
daman077c

daman077c

Active Member
AK The Savage said:
Hmm im in training right now with her but i cant seem to get her 3KP+K to connect after her H+K...does it have to be a counter blow or something? Thanks for that input man im gonna try doing it as we speak! Hahaha!
Click to expand...

It's a really tight link, it may have to be a counter blow, I'd have to check. $10 says it is off a counter hit or missed hold.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
So it's beginning to look a lot like most everybody may have a decent pseudo force tech from 2p after launching. So far I've found:

Tina: 6ppk 2p, gives +5 advantage if they tech or sets up 6f+k force tech (+9).
Mila: pppp 2p, gives +8 advantage if they tech or sets up 3f+k force tech (+19).
Kasumi: pp 2p, gives at least +5 if they tech or sets up 9k force tech (like +19 I think).
Hayabusa: ppp 2p, at least +6 if they tech or sets up 9k force tech (+14). Also 3pp 1p, will trade p with Kasumi or force tech at +20. His 2p knocks too far back to force tech any further it looks like.
Zack: He can technically pull this off with 2p 2f+k for +16 but it's a pain in the ass because of duck cancels. However, 3p 2k works nicely. If 2k hits, you can finish the entire 2kkkkk string for a +18 forced tech situation and damage. If they tech, you can go 2kp into any of the next parts of the string and it will beat a 9 frame punch. So you have a ridiculous number of options technically, but it's a little harder to pull off than the other characters. However, 2kkkkk will typically beat a 9 frame punch on the tech but it is a bit predictable. But not a bad option overall.

Bass and Bayman look to be exceptions but they have their own setups:

Bayman: 6ppk 1k, doesn't give advantage but 1kk will beat whatever if they tech or gives p+k force tech (+20).
Bass: After launch 6kk, if they tech still at +7, if they don't they are force teched at +21*.

It looks like genuine force techs are more the property of the grapplers, as makes a certain amount of sense. Still, if you want to preserve advantage after a juggle it does look like most if not all characters can do that.

*Incidentally, I have no idea what the ground throw is good for now for Bass outside of some rare situations like big knockbacks if they don't tech. 1p gives a +12 force tech and 7 damage so why wouldn't you use it?
 
Tokkosho

Tokkosho

Well-Known Member
how do i test force techs in training? they never get hit by them so i cant properly test follow ups
... nvm i found a way, but not sure how reliable
 
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shinryu

Active Member
Well, so this looks like it's actually a bit more complicated than I had initially thought. Apparently some knockdowns entirely disable force teching for their duration, while some don't. Depending, certain force techs may or may not work. It actually looks like most of the 2p setups above don't work if the opponent techs after the 2p, unless it follows one of the special knockdowns. So, basically, if your character can get a hard knockdown like Tina/Bayman/Mila, you can get something like 2p 6f+k to work. But even if those characters don't use one of the special knockdowns, you can't insure the force tech unless the opponent fails to tech after 2p. So, unfortunately, these setups are less useful than I had hoped. You do have time to see if they tech the 2p and respond appropriately, I think, so it's not totally useless. But nothing is guaranteed after the first 2p.
 
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