Post your experience with Small/smallest health. Good or bad
- Thread starter RyuJin
- Start date
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Remove counters during stuns and reduce the number of attacks that stun, then we can talk about lower life settings.
Honestly... you guys should focus on getting more than 10 people at tournaments before you worry about the settings. As it stands you can play 5 tournaments (one on every life setting) and still get done before any other tournaments starting at the same time.
Honestly... you guys should focus on getting more than 10 people at tournaments before you worry about the settings. As it stands you can play 5 tournaments (one on every life setting) and still get done before any other tournaments starting at the same time.
kupo
Active Member
I couldn't agree more.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
well i don't know how to get our numbers at majors up. I mean...4 at a major? How is that humanly possible? It must be our online roots.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
More or less. The community grew from DoA2U which was pretty much the first online 3D fighter.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
And if Tn patches the netcode to make it godlike....we might not have an offline scene.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Nah, we've come a long way since then.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
That's good.
Im starting to lean back the other way towards normal now. Initially I was feeling smallest but as a player who uses pure striking characters (No parries, no huge damage grabs/counters, not much evasion) Im finding that damage output potential and the ease you can get it is a bit unbalanced. Especially skewed towards grapplers.
Yes with Jann Lee on smallest I can take enormous amounts of health with one combo, but combo's take work to setup and leave my opponent with out's until I can hopefully get CB.
Playing someone like Bass or Bayman if I get hit by ONE well timed (Or more likely guessed) OH or counter and im either done or playing major catch up the rest of the fight.
And its not like these characters have weak mosquito bite strikes either. Their single power strikes are just as powerful as mine.
Im not saying that it breaks the game or anything like that but I do personally believe that smallest may artificially alter the balance between characters a bit.. With the game only out for about a month now Im not yet sold on the idea of a community altering standards and potentially affecting balance quite yet.
Also I feel like smallest diminishes the yomi and conditioning aspects of the game. Especially with certain character matchups. Yes I understand stuff like that can be considered "scrubish" but come on, in reality it really is a big part of what has always made DOA, DOA.
How can a player using Christie for example condition his opponent or really work a good yomi game into a match when against a Bayman his lifebar is gone after a couple of holds or an OH or 2 and the match is over in 20 seconds.
At least on normal the same player is going to have enough time and leeway to go away from his B&B and try working mind games into a round if need be. On smallest you really cant do this. By the time you get started the round is probably over.
You can acheive this over the course of multiple rounds of course but its not the same as being able to switch things up or try and use your opponents tendencies against them mid round if need be.
Yes with Jann Lee on smallest I can take enormous amounts of health with one combo, but combo's take work to setup and leave my opponent with out's until I can hopefully get CB.
Playing someone like Bass or Bayman if I get hit by ONE well timed (Or more likely guessed) OH or counter and im either done or playing major catch up the rest of the fight.
And its not like these characters have weak mosquito bite strikes either. Their single power strikes are just as powerful as mine.
Im not saying that it breaks the game or anything like that but I do personally believe that smallest may artificially alter the balance between characters a bit.. With the game only out for about a month now Im not yet sold on the idea of a community altering standards and potentially affecting balance quite yet.
Also I feel like smallest diminishes the yomi and conditioning aspects of the game. Especially with certain character matchups. Yes I understand stuff like that can be considered "scrubish" but come on, in reality it really is a big part of what has always made DOA, DOA.
How can a player using Christie for example condition his opponent or really work a good yomi game into a match when against a Bayman his lifebar is gone after a couple of holds or an OH or 2 and the match is over in 20 seconds.
At least on normal the same player is going to have enough time and leeway to go away from his B&B and try working mind games into a round if need be. On smallest you really cant do this. By the time you get started the round is probably over.
You can acheive this over the course of multiple rounds of course but its not the same as being able to switch things up or try and use your opponents tendencies against them mid round if need be.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
That's kind of the entire point...It teaches players to be less random and make more careful choices with their attacks and if you screw up you pay for it. With that said I still think smallest is too much and small is the right balance. I'm still playing on smallest and think it's hilarious one shotting people with CB>PB setups, but it's just too much. Definitely would like to stick with small health though as it actually makes the crappy characters worth a damn. On normal certain characters have to work 10x harder to do anything respectable, at least on small/smallest they are rewarded with respectable damage. Like on small Hitomi's 33f+p actually does damage worth a damn. On normal that throw is a joke on damage, barely even hurts.
Skilletor
Active Member
Couldn't that be said of any game when you lower the life?
I have yet to see anybody provide an argument for smallest setting that couldn't be applied to ANY fighting game when you lower the life setting.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
It could be said of other fighting games, sure.
But how many other fighting games have the severity of randomness that DOA has and actually need that extra push?
Something-Unique
Active Member
Its pretty much what was mentioned in the other thread about disrupting balance. Certain characters become obnoxiously stupid and the yomi basically becomes non existent or at least it requires less of it. Jann Lee for example is extra braindead on smallest. Almost zero effort whatsoever and it doesn't end there.
Skilletor
Active Member
Well, as you told me and Master Thespian, if we don't like it (the severity of randomness in DoA cough cough stun system), go play those other games. If there's something inherent in DoA's system that makes people think this is necessary to make the game (more) playable, it says something about the game.
The way I look at it is this, hypothetically:
Jann Lee needs 2 combos to kill you. Christie needs 3 combos.
If you change the settings to small/smallest, that shifts to Jann Lee needing 1 combo to kill you and Christie needing 2 and maybe, still, 3 just because of her damage output. That doesn't fix anything. It just makes the strong character even stronger. The weak character still needs to open you up multiple times while the stronger characters need to do so less.
The way I look at it is this, hypothetically:
Jann Lee needs 2 combos to kill you. Christie needs 3 combos.
If you change the settings to small/smallest, that shifts to Jann Lee needing 1 combo to kill you and Christie needing 2 and maybe, still, 3 just because of her damage output. That doesn't fix anything. It just makes the strong character even stronger. The weak character still needs to open you up multiple times while the stronger characters need to do so less.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
In typical scenarios Jann Lee still needs 2 to kill you, but Christie would move down to 2 as well. That's why I say its more balanced.
It is very, very hard for Jann to kill you with a single combo. The ones he CAN use to kill you with can actually be done on normal health as well, they are just stupid situational.
It is very, very hard for Jann to kill you with a single combo. The ones he CAN use to kill you with can actually be done on normal health as well, they are just stupid situational.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
UMVC3, SFIV, Virtua Fighter 5 feature a lot of guessing /yomi where lower health would give them the same push.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
in UMVC3 you get tapped you're close to dead (if not outright) anyway, so I don't see the difference there.
SFIV, yea maybe. VF5, well depends if you mean FS or not. FS you already die really fast and there isn't a holds-in-stun system to save your ass like there is in DOA 5, so its pretty much already playing like DOA 5 on smallest.
SFIV, yea maybe. VF5, well depends if you mean FS or not. FS you already die really fast and there isn't a holds-in-stun system to save your ass like there is in DOA 5, so its pretty much already playing like DOA 5 on smallest.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Not always, it's dependant on meter, plus a character is only 1/3rd of a lifebar, incoming character is a total guess.
Throw breaking is guess based(mostly), stuns can be shaken out of, etc. . .
Not saying they're more random, but they would benefit just the same.
ILYA✰
Active Member
It's true that low-damage chars like Christie would have less to worry about (more life=more hold-opportunities), and naturally beating off an opponent wouldn't require those 3-4 combos anymore.
I also think that chars like Jann and some grapplers get advantage too, of course, from the smallest life setting..
What I dont want is people turning the matches into quickies where the point is just nailing those couple of damaging kicks to kill an opponent...