Okay, why/how am I getting accused of spamming counters? Thats not even POSSIBLE.

HiguraShiki

Active Member
What about people like me, who hold the first hit, not the second?
Thats a guess too. It is basically saying "Ok this guy usually throws a mid punch after wakeup, so let me try mid punch holding to see if it works." It is still a guess. Now if the opponent was halfway decent, they would condition you to hold the mid punch after wakeup and grab you instead. As a matter of fact, when you said you held people by reading them, I figured you ment you held them after a few strings. Attempting to hold the first string immediately is even more of a guess than waiting for the launcher. Unless the move is like i60, where you can always react to it once it is thrown, i highly doubt anyone has the reflex to automatically detect whether the person is going to throw a mid P, mid K, high, low, grab, or low grab on the first shot.
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
Thats a guess too. It is basically saying "Ok this guy usually throws a mid punch after wakeup, so let me try mid punch holding to see if it works." It is still a guess. Now if the opponent was halfway decent, they would condition you to hold the mid punch after wakeup and grab you instead. As a matter of fact, when you said you held people by reading them, I figured you ment you held them after a few strings. Attempting to hold the first string immediately is even more of a guess than waiting for the launcher. Unless the move is like i60, where you can always react to it once it is thrown, i highly doubt anyone has the reflex to automatically detect whether the person is going to throw a mid P, mid K, high, low, grab, or low grab on the first shot.
LOL funny story about that I actually counter hold on the first shot. When the announcer said "Get ready Fight" Leifang did her :2::P: & all of sudden I countered that annoying move. One time I was fighting Bass he threw out a quick mid kick & guess what, I reversed it. These moments had my jaw dropped, :eek: & I was watching the replays over & over again.
 

HiguraShiki

Active Member
LOL funny story about that I actually counter hold on the first shot. When the announcer said "Get ready Fight" Leifang did her :2::P: & all of sudden I countered that annoying move. One time I was fighting Bass he threw out a quick mid kick & guess what, I reversed it. These moments had my jaw dropped, :eek: & I was watching the replays over & over again.
Can you do it? Yes. I'm just trying to tell this dude that focusing your entire game on just trying to hold the person is pretty much guessing all the time.
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
Can you do it? Yes. I'm just trying to tell this dude that focusing your entire game on just trying to hold the person is pretty much guessing all the time.
can you do it? Yes, can you do it most of the time? Hell no! Its not that easy.
 

SilverKhaos

Active Member
can you do it? Yes, can you do it most of the time? Hell no! Its not that easy.

...you'd be surprised. Most of my damage comes from counters/holds.

Thats a guess too. It is basically saying "Ok this guy usually throws a mid punch after wakeup, so let me try mid punch holding to see if it works." It is still a guess. Now if the opponent was halfway decent, they would condition you to hold the mid punch after wakeup and grab you instead. As a matter of fact, when you said you held people by reading them, I figured you ment you held them after a few strings. Attempting to hold the first string immediately is even more of a guess than waiting for the launcher. Unless the move is like i60, where you can always react to it once it is thrown, i highly doubt anyone has the reflex to automatically detect whether the person is going to throw a mid P, mid K, high, low, grab, or low grab on the first shot.

It's less "he usually does this", and more "What would I do if I was him, using his playstyle, in his position?"

Like you said, decent players condition their opponent. And thats what I do, its why its a lot easier to constantly counter than you'd think. Condition the opponent to use certain attacks, then counter said attack. Now I'm not saying i'm perfect or psychic or anything, I'm just saying it's what I do.

Like you said, some better players try to grab the holds. Doesn't really work due to mixup (Tried grabbing as I'm doing a low sweep instead, because I conditioned them to try to grab, thinking I'd counter again.).

Again, the issue is you are thinking of it in terms of "on reaction." I'm thinking of it in terms of "think three steps ahead". And no, i'm not trying to make myself sound good by saying this (like I said, i'm nowhere near as proficient with this playstyle as I used to be/want to be), I'm explaining the different approaches to using counters. I'm not perfect at it by any means, but getting better every day.

Now, yes, there is still some guessing...however, theres very LITTLE in the way I'm doing. It just all depends on if I've done a good job reading and guiding the opponent's actions, rather than factoring on guessing alone. Its like herding sheep. Sure theres a chance they'll swerve off, but for the most part, they are following the route you laid out for them.

Now, if I can't read their playstyle/mentality, my way doesn't work. But since everyone has a playstyle, it usually just comes down to whether I screw up or not.

So....i'd say maybe 10% guessing? 15 tops? Also, for reflexes, I grew up on Burnout, Wipeout, Sonic, Fzero, etc. My reflexes are pretty good lol.

Don't get me wrong, the way I'm doing it is insanely hard, as its about outmaneuvering, rather than simple execution. And I screw up a lot still. So like I said, don't take this as "my way is better" or anything, I'm just saying I use it, and it works, and its fun.

Blah. Again, apologies for rambling. I always think I haven't explained it right, so I just keep yapping trying to get it right.
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
When was I fighting against Leifang (using Hitomi) I was dodging so many throws, it was weird but in a good way lol & I've save another replay when I was countering 5 or 4 wake up kicks. o_O Crazy shit like countering the first attack or countering wake up
Kicks 3 times in a row usually happens sometimes.
 

GLoRToR

Active Member
If you do not break my throw attempt, I'll keep throwing you until your life ran out.
If you are a scrub, you won't figure out that throw can be broken and then blow me up for it, but bitch that I'm "spamming" throws.
Online makes shit rather dumb in most fighting games because some things are just not punishable. So a lot of online players will figure out what it is, and then do it.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
You can spam anything. Doesn't make you cheap. DOA's system is specifically designed to punish people who are limited to the same playstyle. If you're spamming counters that always connect, it's your opponent's fault for being predictable.
 

WiZzYx

Active Member
I played with you, and yes...you're an OH spammer. You don't play defensively...your main combo is :P: :P: :6: :K: :H+P:
 

Krimsynn

New Member
I had some random guy send me a throwdown challenge which I accepted. He used Rig, and I used Christie and I beat him handily. He sent me a message saying I was a "spamming a$$ b***h".

All I used were a few attack strings because he didnt know what he was doing. His attacks were easy to block and counter attack. I messaged him back and told him that his rude message was uncalled for and that I was actually going to tell him good game. He message me back saying he was sorry but I didn't give him a chance. I said DUDE, if I GAVE you a chance, you would have won the match!!!

So, I know exactly what you mean by people raging out if they lose.
 

WiZzYx

Active Member
Obviously, you didn't played against DEGALON. Their cheap tactic didn't work for me, so i'm not salty or something, but he is a spammer...
 

Lafintica

New Member
By spam counter did you mean spamming (:h:) button in every direction randomly ? .... It's possible, but it's not spamming, we rather called it defensive play.
Sometimes player that new to DOA triangle system ranting about all of their attacks being countered, maybe they should watch Rikuto's Bayman

If you lose, that's mean you are just not good enough fighter, therefor every fighting game has training mode. Training mode in DOA5 is really perfect among all fighting game out there.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Obviously, you didn't played against DEGALON. Their cheap tactic didn't work for me, so i'm not salty or something, but he is a spammer...

I've played him....I didn't notice any spamming, of course he's also terrible at the game and I never really gave him a chance to attack.
 

Musourenka

Active Member
I have a habit of going hold-crazy (and eating HCTs in the process) if I can't slow-escape and I can't read strings.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Okay, why/how does this sound like a theatrical version of a good game/bad game post?

Better yet? Why/how are you worried about adapting to an opponent by doing something that works?
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
Never give somebody a chance because they won't learn their mistakes & try to improve their skills.
 

SilverKhaos

Active Member
Never give somebody a chance because they won't learn their mistakes & try to improve their skills.

Other way around. If you don't give them a chance, they wont bother to keep trying/playing. Nobody wants to just sit there banging their head on a wall, in the vain hope of breaking through.
Work with them, give them CHANCES to learn from their mistakes, and they'll improve. Just plow them into the ground, no chances, and they'll just say screw it and move on to something else. Start shallow, not sink or swim. Unless you hate them.
 

prototypetom

Active Member
Other way around. If you don't give them a chance, they wont bother to keep trying/playing. Nobody wants to just sit there banging their head on a wall, in the vain hope of breaking through.
Work with them, give them CHANCES to learn from their mistakes, and they'll improve. Just plow them into the ground, no chances, and they'll just say screw it and move on to something else. Start shallow, not sink or swim. Unless you hate them.
actually i do. but i might be weird like that. If someone mullers me bad the only thing i spam is 'fight again'. don't care about being abused, i NEED to keep going till i've figured out what i'm doing wrong. i'd actually say i enjoy DOA more on a losing streak than a winning one. in fact if i was to pick my absolute favourite thing in DOA... It's playing as Lisa, losing 10 or 15 matches in a row to someone good, then winning one and seeing her say "You didn't really expect to win did you?" or whatever it is. fantastic.
 

SilverKhaos

Active Member
actually i do. but i might be weird like that. If someone mullers me bad the only thing i spam is 'fight again'. don't care about being abused, i NEED to keep going till i've figured out what i'm doing wrong. i'd actually say i enjoy DOA more on a losing streak than a winning one. in fact if i was to pick my absolute favourite thing in DOA... It's playing as Lisa, losing 10 or 15 matches in a row to someone good, then winning one and seeing her say "You didn't really expect to win did you?". fantastic.

Fair enough. I personally see it in terms of "how much effort for how much reward." In that kind of situation, I just don't see finally getting a win as enough to justify 10-20 rounds of virtually not even getting to play. Unless getting a win unlocks something (friggin arcade mode...)

One of my absolute favorite fighting game experience was a round in Training mode of Tenkaichi 3. me as Super 17, opponent as SS4 Goku, Time chamber, infinite health, and time, absolute hardest difficulty. I got pummeled at first, then quickly warmed up to it, was keeping on par, then dominating, so I toned it back to keep it on par, and had a blast, played that one fight for almost 4 hours. It was THAT fun. And since this was on the wii, it was a helluva workout lol. So I felt the fight.
 

prototypetom

Active Member
well i'm not talking about fluking a win, i'm talking about matching up against someone better, learning their game, and developing something new in my game to overcome. (so i need to follow up with a few more wins - but that ironic lisa taunt is only special the first win). to me that means I've come away richer than i went in. so the reward you're talking about is there.

never played dragonball, know almost nothing about it - but damn... i was moaning earlier about switching to a stick was hard work. :cool:
 
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