My Issue With Rig....

[DrDogg]

Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of people online claiming to be the best, yet not bothering to show up offline. Look at me, this is my first DOA game and I do pretty good online and you don't see me bragging that I know anything about the game or that I am one of the best players. That's because I know that unless I go offline, all I'm doing is making baseless claims.

I think the issue is that a lot of people who play DOA do not play other fighting games (at least at a competitive level). They don't understand the big differences between online and offline, and the only time they play offline is against their friends at an equal skill level. So when they beat them using those same online tactics, they assume it works against everyone.

If the OP made the same post on SRK about he's the best based on online wins, he'd be ignored or laughed at endlessly. But he can get away with it here (and even get a little support) because this community is not weathered enough to understand. You're one of the few newcomers who understands this stuff. Thank you for that.

 

[Steady G]

It is sad that people only think "offline" is the best way to show your true skill. Numerous of people that went to an offline tournament said that there isn't a difference from offline or online play. The only major difference would be the lag between the two players. Playing offline would give you bragging rights but sometimes the tournaments that people win are easy and it makes them cocky. People that keep referring to "online tactics" and NOT EXPLAINING WHAT AN ONLINE TACTIC REALLY IS are making excuses because they are not familiar with the game. Its just sad how people make excuses and try to go to FSD to get everybody on their side because they think a player isn't good. If you guys are going to complain about somebody you lose to that does not have skill when you play them online, then stop taking online play seriously. And NOBODY can not talk about somebody skill online if somebody uses the same moves over and over (with Mila) just to get a win. This community is something else... That is just what I think about that. If there was a HUGE difference between offline and online play, ElectrifiedMann wouldn't have made Top 3 at D.i.D. because that was his first offline tournament. People need to keep their opinions to themselves because it does not make any sense. Well to me it doesn't...

 

[Virtua Mima]

100% CSteady

@DrDogg you randomly hogged this thread and attacked Hades for no reason, probably because you're butthurt that he cleaned you online. You're a dick, as usual, you can study the game all you want and write all the guides you want but if you suck, you suck. You're nobody, go lose to Chosen1 or something stop bothering people.

 

[DR2K]

It is sad that people only think "offline" is the best way to show your true skill. Numerous of people that went to an offline tournament said that there isn't a difference from offline or online play. The only major difference would be the lag between the two players. Playing offline would give you bragging rights but sometimes the tournaments that people win are easy and it makes them cocky. People that keep referring to "online tactics" and NOT EXPLAINING WHAT AN ONLINE TACTIC REALLY IS are making excuses because they are not familiar with the game. Its just sad how people make excuses and try to go to FSD to get everybody on their side because they think a player isn't good. If you guys are going to complain about somebody you lose to that does not have skill when you play them online, then stop taking online play seriously. And NOBODY can not talk about somebody skill online if somebody uses the same moves over and over (with Mila) just to get a win. This community is something else... That is just what I think about that. If there was a HUGE difference between offline and online play, ElectrifiedMann wouldn't have made Top 3 at D.i.D. because that was his first offline tournament. People need to keep their opinions to themselves because it does not make any sense. Well to me it doesn't...

Being good online means you're great at adjusting to various levels of lag, input delay, etc. . .it's a worthless skill to the core game. It means you can get away with mashing low hold, attacking out of disadvantage, mashing lows, etc. . . Factors that don't come into play for any game offline. The online is especially atrocious for DOA5, it's the worst netcode since Tekken 6. I'm not sure how anyone can say online is even a feasible measure to the core game especially when it's in such a horrible state.

Skill isn't defined as using different moves it's about using the right ones.

Most DOA players start out online, almost all of them actually. Why would it be surprising Emann made top 3? I mean who took Emann out of the tournmanet? An offline player. Who won that tournament? An offline player.

 

[Jefffcore]

You guys... are silly.

Online is different than online; that's just a fact. Someone who only plays online can still be better than someone who plays offline, but online isn't consistent, so the out-come isn't as accurate as it could be.

E-Mann is good at doing attacks and holding. If he has decent yomi, that's all they need to win at DOA. He doesn't really have good fundamentals from what I've seen/experienced. He got that far because DOA itself is dumb, it's new, and the community as a whole is lazy.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing the same thing over and over. The point of DOA is adjusting; nothing less, nothing more. It's the same 50/50's over and over.

/Inbeforethreadgetscleaned

 

[DrDogg]

It is sad that people only think "offline" is the best way to show your true skill.

It's not the best way, it's the only way (at least when it comes to DOA5).

Numerous of people that went to an offline tournament said that there isn't a difference from offline or online play. The only major difference would be the lag between the two players.

Which is a HUGE difference.

People that keep referring to "online tactics" and NOT EXPLAINING WHAT AN ONLINE TACTIC REALLY IS are making excuses because they are not familiar with the game.

You really need the definition of an online tactic explained to you? And you claim other people are unfamiliar with the game...

An online tactic is something that works due to the latency and other limiting factors of online play. Helena is the perfect example of this. Online, you see Helena players attacking, attacking, attacking. They never stop hitting buttons. Have you looked at her frame data? 95% of her attacks are unsafe, yet when you block them online, she's essentially at +3 or better after almost every blocked attack so you can't interrupt her and you can't punish her.

Its just sad how people make excuses and try to go to FSD to get everybody on their side because they think a player isn't good. If you guys are going to complain about somebody you lose to that does not have skill when you play them online, then stop taking online play seriously. And NOBODY can not talk about somebody skill online if somebody uses the same moves over and over (with Mila) just to get a win. This community is something else...

Did you even bother to read the conversation? Hades is claiming he's the best Rig and basing this on his matches online. I told him how he can prove his claim and he somehow translated that into me saying I'm better with Rig than he is (I don't even remember how his Rig played). It has absolutely nothing to do with his skill online, it's about how he needs to prove his claims.

That is just what I think about that. If there was a HUGE difference between offline and online play, ElectrifiedMann wouldn't have made Top 3 at D.i.D. because that was his first offline tournament.

Most of the people going to these tournaments only play online because the local scenes are not very large (or nonexistent in some areas). If you watch what EMann and XBladez did at DID and NEC, you'll see that there was very little punishment going on. The people who played against them played the match like it was online. That doesn't mean there's no difference, it means that the level of skill in the community is very low... to the point where people aren't doing their homework.

People need to keep their opinions to themselves because it does not make any sense. Well to me it doesn't...

So you can share your opinion but other people can't share theirs? That is what doesn't make any sense.

 

[Raansu]

It is sad that people only think "offline" is the best way to show your true skill.

Beating randoms online and claiming to be the best of the best in an inconsistent environment is not the way to go about things. You may be great, you may not, but until you consistently win offline against the top DoA players, your online achievements really mean nothing.

Numerous of people that went to an offline tournament said that there isn't a difference from offline or online play.

They are lying out of their ass then. Going offline makes a MASSIVE difference. I hardly ever hold or block low online because I tend to do everything on reaction but 9/10 when I do the input nothing happens online so I stopped trying. When I went to CEO I was actually holding, catching stuff on reaction, I actually was able to block low and for once I could utilize good defense and proper spacing. There is a huge difference between the two and I will NEVER give merit to online "accomplishments" because online is meant for casual play and casual play only.

People that keep referring to "online tactics" and NOT EXPLAINING WHAT AN ONLINE TACTIC REALLY IS are making excuses because they are not familiar with the game.

Maybe you should get familiar with the game first then? Online creates bad habits and changes how the game is played by a significant amount. I've lost track of how many times I've blocked something and the player should be at -11 and they just keep on attacking like they are at frame advantage and it actually works for them because of the lag. I get furious when I block and go to throw punish something that's a guaranteed throw punishment only to eat a jab.

Whether people do it intentionally or not doesn't matter. The fact remains that frame data is unreliable online and changes how the game is played.

Its just sad how people make excuses and try to go to FSD to get everybody on their side because they think a player isn't good.

It's sad that the whole online vs offline argument still exists within DoA's community and has been going since DoA2U and DoAC forums while every other community understands the difference between the two and will NOT tolerate online warriors for even a second yet this community still tolerates it and allows people to get away with it.

The concept is simple. Online play is fine and dandy for casuals, but if you want to call yourself a good player you have to prove it consistently offline against other top players not just go "lol I win lots of times online and I haz S+ rank." Hell, I have an S+ and have placed top at both the CEO events in Florida and at D.i.D last year and I still don't consider myself on the same level as the top players.

If there was a HUGE difference between offline and online play, ElectrifiedMann wouldn't have made Top 3 at D.i.D. because that was his first offline tournament. People need to keep their opinions to themselves because it does not make any sense. Well to me it doesn't...

I've never played Emann and not to take away from his accomplishment but really he simply got away with a tech that no one had really seen yet. Heck I only saw it once against mamba online prior to D i D 8 and I still didn't really know how to deal with it. And if you watch the finals with mamba/master you can see master figuring the tech out near the end. I'm sure they will continue to do well if they keep attending future tournaments, but I doubt we'll see the steam rolls he pulled at D i D now that everyone has seen the tech and has had time to figure out how to counter it.

 

[Murakame]

Beating randoms online and claiming to be the best of the best in an inconsistent environment is not the way to go about things. You may be great, you may not, but until you consistently win offline against the top DoA players, your online achievements really mean nothing.

Maybe you should get familiar with the game first then? Online creates bad habits and changes how the game is played by a significant amount. I've lost track of how many times I've blocked something and the player should be at -11 and they just keep on attacking like they are at frame advantage and it actually works for them because of the lag. I get furious when I block and go to throw punish something that's a guaranteed throw punishment only to eat a jab.

Whether people do it intentionally or not doesn't matter. The fact remains that frame data is unreliable online and changes how the game is played.

The concept is simple. Online play is fine and dandy for casuals, but if you want to call yourself a good player you have to prove it consistently offline against other top players not just go "lol I win lots of times online and I haz S+ rank." Hell, I have an S+ and have placed top at both the CEO events in Florida and at D.i.D last year and I still don't consider myself on the same level as the top players.

The argument should be over with this. I don't know what it will take to convince people that online is not an accurate gauge of skill. People seem to believe that offline players consider online players trash and to be honest some probably do. However the point I believe the majority of offline players are trying to make is that you can definitely develop some form of skill online but you cannot use it to say you are a top level player because as you have stated too much things go wrong online. A player with some form of knowledge about how to play the game properly would never stay attacking at massive disadvantage like I still see some online players and S ranks do. I don't believe in a "way to play online" and a "way to play offline." I only believe in the way to play DOA and in DOA you should not be attacking when you are at -12 regardless of what environment you are in. In an environment with a considerable amount of players that abuse the fact that online let's you get away with constantly attacking at disadvantage and abuse unsafe low hitting attacks that could have been blocked on reaction offline, but are alot easier to use online due to lag, input delay, hold delays etc how do you accurately gauge somebody's level of skill? We can be honest with each other here and say it is a fact that this same play style that allows some people to see some success online would get them demolished offline. When offline players say to come offline and prove your skills we online players should not be taking it as an insult. Instead we should rise up to the challenge and take it as a chance to see if we really know the way to play DOA properly and step our game up.

 

[Haydeeze]

All im Saying DrDogg...14-0...8 of those wins from Rig. You, have not beaten me once. SO the fact that you say im an "unsafe Helena player" has nothing to do with the fact that you get spanked on numerous occaisons by me. I'm not about to go to your house and beat you so you can complain about the lag in front of my face as you hear the announcer yell "GREATEST"! It's not worth it, no wonder people get sick of this community so quick. Nobody knows how to take an L without a freaking 30 page word documents of excuses. Smdh. Grow up. Aren't you the adult here? Obviously not. I'm done arguing with this man. ALSO Mr "Lets complain about online tactics"...Don't you constantly stand there and SS Hold with Mila so the opponent literally cant do anything? Or you use Bass' get up grab and do the 1pp to get a guard break and have an outstanding advantage, ESPECIALLY online. Hmmm... Kinda shady there, Doctor.

 

[Haydeeze]

Anyways, back to the main topic...
Rig players!

 

[Raansu]

Anyways, back to the main topic...
Rig players!

They don't exist.

 

[Haydeeze]

Being good online means you're great at adjusting to various levels of lag, input delay, etc. . .it's a worthless skill to the core game. It means you can get away with mashing low hold, attacking out of disadvantage, mashing lows, etc. . . Factors that don't come into play for any game offline. The online is especially atrocious for DOA5, it's the worst netcode since Tekken 6. I'm not sure how anyone can say online is even a feasible measure to the core game especially when it's in such a horrible state.

Skill isn't defined as using different moves it's about using the right ones.

Most DOA players start out online, almost all of them actually. Why would it be surprising Emann made top 3? I mean who took Emann out of the tournmanet? An offline player. Who won that tournament? An offline player.

Lol what? So an online player (Emann) Places top 3 offline. But your only regarding the fact that he lost to an offline player, WHILE beating other offline players like Rikuto? Hmmm...

 

[Raansu]

Lol what? So an online player (Emann) Places top 3 offline. But your only regarding the fact that he lost to an offline player, WHILE beating other offline players like Rikuto? Hmmm...

Ya while using a tech that no one had seen before. Everyone has seen it, everyone has had time to adjust to it. Doubt we'll be seeing any of them getting away with a steamroll like that in future tournaments.

 

[Haydeeze]

Ya while using a tech that no one had seen before. Everyone has seen it, everyone has had time to adjust to it. Doubt we'll be seeing any of them getting away with a steamroll like that in future tournaments.

What about Caliber Winning NEC with Offline vets like Black Mamba?

 

[Awesmic]

Most DOA players start out online, almost all of them actually. Why would it be surprising Emann made top 3? I mean who took Emann out of the tournmanet? An offline player. Who won that tournament? An offline player.

To be fair Onslaught, an online player won NEC.

But I guess you're gonna take away from that guy's victory, so...

EDIT: Ninja'd by Haydeeze. Carry on.

 

[HiguraShiki]

I like how all this information just completely went over their heads....

 

[Tokkosho]

I like how all this information just completely went over their heads....

oh dear god dont get sucked in!

 

[DrDogg]

All im Saying DrDogg...14-0...8 of those wins from Rig. You, have not beaten me once. SO the fact that you say im an "unsafe Helena player" has nothing to do with the fact that you get spanked on numerous occaisons by me.

What? So the fact that you're 8-0 playing Rig against me in lag means something?

And it has everything to do with the fact that you're an unsafe Helena player. She has a 10-0 match-up against every other character online. You should NEVER lose with her online.

I'm not about to go to your house and beat you so you can complain about the lag in front of my face as you hear the announcer yell "GREATEST"! It's not worth it, no wonder people get sick of this community so quick. Nobody knows how to take an L without a freaking 30 page word documents of excuses.

This is the big problem. Not once in this entire thread, or anywhere on this site have I said that I'm a better player than you. If I have please point it out. If you respond to nothing else in this post, please show me at what point I said that I'm a better player than you.

The reason people get sick of online warriors like yourself is because you make these outlandish claims of superiority when you've done nothing to back up those claims. And before you go back to your 14-0 online record against me, it's ONLINE. I can't block on reaction, I can't counter on reaction, I can't punish almost ANYTHING, and even if I start guessing (which I hate to do) half the time my guess doesn't even come out in time. Yet you want to use that medium as a way to prove you're better than me at this game?

And for the record, that wasn't even the initial debate. You decided you wanted to discuss how much better you are compared to me. I simply told you how to prove your skill.

ALSO Mr "Lets complain about online tactics"...Don't you constantly stand there and SS Hold with Mila so the opponent literally cant do anything?

What is SS Hold? I don't think I've ever done "sidestep, hold" with Mila in my life. Also, most of my Mila tactics are legit offline. There are a few that are online only (4K~tackle mainly), but I only use that because if I cancel the tackle (like I would do offline), people are too slow to react online and I miss out on damage. There's no reason to cancel the tackle online, just like there's no reason for a Helena player to ever stop attacking.

Or you use Bass' get up grab and do the 1pp to get a guard break and have an outstanding advantage, ESPECIALLY online. Hmmm... Kinda shady there, Doctor.

Bass is my online character. I use him primarily against Helena players. I spam 1PP into pick-up mixups. If you did your homework you'd see that most of his guard breaks are disadvantage, so you have no reason to complain about that. But you're the best Rig player alive so I'm sure you already knew that.

The difference between my Bass (and even my Mila 4K~tackle) is that I know what's limited to online tactics and what would transfer well to offline. I would probably never play Bass in an offline tournament because I don't know how to play the character. I literally only use him against Helena, or when I'm fighting someone who likes to spam slow low attacks online (to give them a taste of their own medicine).

Most importantly, I would never brag about beating someone with Bass online. I know my Bass is garbage and I know it's 90% online tactics. I know anytime I win with Bass, it has nothing to do with skill (although a lot of people don't even attempt to escape his frame traps, but whatever). I'm not sitting here posting my win percentage with Bass and saying I'm the best Bass player in the world.

 

[Haydeeze]

Side Step OH* my bad,

 

[Haydeeze]

What? So the fact that you're 8-0 playing Rig against me in lag means something?

And it has everything to do with the fact that you're an unsafe Helena player. She has a 10-0 match-up against every other character online. You should NEVER lose with her online.



This is the big problem. Not once in this entire thread, or anywhere on this site have I said that I'm a better player than you. If I have please point it out. If you respond to nothing else in this post, please show me at what point I said that I'm a better player than you.

The reason people get sick of online warriors like yourself is because you make these outlandish claims of superiority when you've done nothing to back up those claims. And before you go back to your 14-0 online record against me, it's ONLINE. I can't block on reaction, I can't counter on reaction, I can't punish almost ANYTHING, and even if I start guessing (which I hate to do) half the time my guess doesn't even come out in time. Yet you want to use that medium as a way to prove you're better than me at this game?

And for the record, that wasn't even the initial debate. You decided you wanted to discuss how much better you are compared to me. I simply told you how to prove your skill.



What is SS Hold? I don't think I've ever done "sidestep, hold" with Mila in my life. Also, most of my Mila tactics are legit offline. There are a few that are online only (4K~tackle mainly), but I only use that because if I cancel the tackle (like I would do offline), people are too slow to react online and I miss out on damage. There's no reason to cancel the tackle online, just like there's no reason for a Helena player to ever stop attacking.



Bass is my online character. I use him primarily against Helena players. I spam 1PP into pick-up mixups. If you did your homework you'd see that most of his guard breaks are disadvantage, so you have no reason to complain about that. But you're the best Rig player alive so I'm sure you already knew that.

The difference between my Bass (and even my Mila 4K~tackle) is that I know what's limited to online tactics and what would transfer well to offline. I would probably never play Bass in an offline tournament because I don't know how to play the character. I literally only use him against Helena, or when I'm fighting someone who likes to spam slow low attacks online (to give them a taste of their own medicine).

Most importantly, I would never brag about beating someone with Bass online. I know my Bass is garbage and I know it's 90% online tactics. I know anytime I win with Bass, it has nothing to do with skill (although a lot of people don't even attempt to escape his frame traps, but whatever). I'm not sitting here posting my win percentage with Bass and saying I'm the best Bass player in the world.

Disadvantage? Are you serious? I'm. Done. Lol. Anyway I have no more to argue with you about. You came into my thread coming at me disputing if I was a Rig main. You had no buisness doing that in the first place considering "You've never played my Rig" :/.