About morons online

[iHajinShinobi]

You don't really know how to play DOA do you, Khaos?

 

[Raansu]

You'd have to define what you think of as "random". Because as far as I've always known, for something to be "random", it must be uncontrollable and unpredictable, the former of which is non-applicable, the latter, debatable. Not going for guaranteed damage isn't playing random, its just not doing follow ups and juggles (as the primary source of damage). Aka, free/guaranteed hits.

Last I checked you cannot control when an opponent counters, thus making it unpredictable and random.

Also, the "goal" is to HIT THEM. (HARD. Preferably in a way that sends them flying back, or crashing to the ground.) That is literally the ONLY goal I need in a fight, since it's, yaknow...the goal and entire point of a fight.

Ya that's not how you play Mila.

 

[SilverKhaos]

You have to understand people are getting really annoyed by you claiming to have some kind of Yomi superpowers to make DOA5 less random. The stun game in DOA is random: That's a fact. Why don't you go play Virtua Fighter and test your Yomi there? You like defense? VF has defense up the wazoo. Fuzzy, ETE, TEG, ETEG, etc. If you really have good defense and good yomi you will succeed in Virtua Fighter.

1) Its not "yomi superpowers". its literally just common sense and ability that every player has and practices. Just fundamentals and mindgames, its nothing special, and sure as hell not unique to me, and i'm' nowhere near pro at them. I just focus on them.

2) I don't like any of the Virtua Fighter characters besides Vanessa, and thats purely because she's a genderswap of Leon. Sides, VF is way way too bland. Never gets exciting to watch or play.

3) The issue (and what really irritates me) is people throwing around the word "Random" where it flat out doesn't apply, like HiguraShiki just demonstrated ("Not doing guaranteed damage? RANDOM!"). UNRELIABLE may be a more appropriate term in certain situations, but "Random" isn't. This isn't a game of dice, where you have absolutely no control over what is happening from either player.

If it was really random, then shit, both players might as well put down the controller because it makes no difference whether they are playing or NOT, they characters will just flail wildly regardless of any input from the controllers.

Or alternately, if it were random, when you pressed the punch button, rather than punch, what would actually be random is if your character instead did a grab, kick, counter or punch, with absolutely no way to tell which action will come out even though you pressed "punch".

OR, a third scenario that would actually be random, is if, when you punched a character, rather than being hit in the intended direction, they instead flailed wildly and flew in a different direction each time you hit them with the same attack, with absolutely no way of telling which way they will go, regardless of which attack you hit them with.

See what I mean? THOSE are situations where the term "Random" applies.

Does the stun game have issues? Of course. But is it "Random"? Hell no, otherwise stuns would be banned from tournaments and nobody would bother to use them since they can't control them in any way. The term does simply not apply.

My main issue is people just trying to throw the word "random" at everything they have problems with, as an excuse to disregard things they don't like. I mean, shit, I hate juggles and guaranteed damage, but I'm not sitting there calling them "random", they are still fully controlled and intended.

Again, by all means, if you can and want to demonstrate something truly random, then i'll stop griping about that word being thrown around. I just have yet to see it, and I hate things being mislabeled in such a way that its completely misleading.

Well, besides online, that has a certain "random" factor, such as me never being sure if its going to read my kicks or not. Though technically thats not random, either, since its a constant risk that leads to a certain result that i'm fully aware of and have taken precautions to get around.

Again, i'm not pro, and i'm not claiming to be, nor do I strive to be. I'm just calling BS on using the word "random" on things that aren't random.

 

[SilverKhaos]

You don't really know how to play DOA do you, Khaos?

Well, considering that I hit them and their health goes down, yes, I do know how to play. People are just trying to pretend it is/has to be more complicated than it really is. For example. The "Goal" is not to do guaranteed damage and combos. The "goal" is to hit them till their health goes all the way down, and guaranteed damage and combos are a tool to aid in reaching that goal. I do not like using said tools, as I like the challenge of going without them.

Kinda like going just knife and bow in Far Cry 3, rather than using all the guns and explosives. The fundamental/basic approach is valid, just more challenging.

 

[Raansu]

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[shunwong]

Ignorance is bliss.

Talking about random. You made me remember this song (it kind of has a SilverKhaos ring to it):

Better off in Iowa against your scrambled eggs
Than crawling down Cahuenga on a broken pair of legs
You'll find your ignorance is blissful every goddamn time
Your're waitin' for the RTD on heartattack and vine

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Well, considering that I hit them and their health goes down, yes, I do know how to play. People are just trying to pretend it is/has to be more complicated than it really is. For example. The "Goal" is not to do guaranteed damage and combos. The "goal" is to hit them till their health goes all the way down, and guaranteed damage and combos are a tool to aid in reaching that goal. I do not like using said tools, as I like the challenge of going without them.

Kinda like going just knife and bow in Far Cry 3, rather than using all the guns and explosives. The fundamental/basic approach is valid, just more challenging.

You're like...the prime example of what this thread's title is about. "About morons online". The "only" person here making things complicated for themselves, is yourself. Doing things with no real purpose in mind in a game like Dead or Alive, is really, really friggin' stupid.

You're basically playing a game just to push buttons however you want because you can then. I can't imagine how you'd fair in a game like Blazblue or Guilty Gear, lol.

 

[ILYA✰]

If he wants to play the way he does, let him, it's not your problem.
He just has to face the fact that most people will see him as a troll of some sort, going for abuse tactics and such.

 

[shunwong]

If he wants to play the way he does, let him, it's not your problem.

Sure, he can play whatever way he wants. It's just funny that he comes and preaches his gospel here, where people are into competitive gaming. Wrong place, that's all.

 

[Tokkosho]

idc how he chooses to play, idc whether he thinks its the right way or not, i start caring when/if he tries to force his way upon other players who want to play their way because his way is "better" or "more skillful". i dont remember him directly pushing his way on others, but dont remember a time where he specifically "didn't".

 

[Sam Sultan]

I felt the need to chime in here so this incorrect information does not get spread around.
This information is completely incorrect and not at all how probability works. The events are independent.

The probability of countering stays the same, regardless of the previous outcome. If you counter wrong, the next time you get a clean slate to guess again no matter how many previous attempts you failed.

Think about it like a coin flip, the probability of guessing any single flip is 50%, period. In our case it is 1/4, or 29% or whatever the number you like. Each counter attempt is independent.

You are confusing it with 'with guess X times correctly, in a row'. Which is dependent on the previous event. The probability of guessing 4 coin flips in a row, is (1/2) x (1/2) x (1/2) x (1/2) = 1/16 = 0.0625 = 6.25 %, however that is not the case here.

Short version: Probability of countering correctly is the same the 4th time as it was the 1st time because that event is independent of the last one.

The probability of an defender to counter the attacker is 1 on 4 = 25%. It is not necessary to talk about what the odds are for a defender to counter the whole string since after on successful counter the whole situation is reset. But for those who are interested:
To counter the first and 2nd hit it's (1/4)^2 = 1/16(6.3%), to counter the first 2nd and 3rd hit it's (1/4)^3 = (1.6%)

Please read carefully before you post something. I know the event is independent from the previous one and i have mentioned that in my post. I just did the calculation for fun just like i said in my post it has no meaning. The post was mainly about the other calculation which are all correct.

 

[Sam Sultan]

Random means you are doing random attacks without aiming for a goal. You aren't going for any guaranteed damage so you basically have no goal except to do any attack you feel like doing until you hopefully win. If you are going for guaranteed damage, you have a goal. You know your moves inside and out and you attempt to do moves not to just hit, but to set up for guaranteed damage.

Mila's overall moveset is not realistic to fighting. You are just saying that because you think it makes you sound intelligent. First of all, no MMA fighter practices just kickboxing and grappling. Second of all, Mila's ground game is not realistic at all. If it was realistic, Mila would do more than just 3 punches or a throw. She would aim for various attacks on the ground and try to tap the person out.

You are completely and utterly 100 percent wrong.

Not going for guaranteed damage is not random it's just a different way of playing. And stun game is not random also, like i said and showed, attacker has advantage in a stun situation and thus far nobody could come up with a intelligent response on why it is random. Also most of the MMA fighters practice no more than 2 fighting styles which are most of the time kickboxing X BJJ or Muay Thai X BJJ i can link you to the site where all this fighters are listed together with there fighting styles. So you see you are the one who is 100% wrong.

idc how he chooses to play, idc whether he thinks its the right way or not, i start caring when/if he tries to force his way upon other players who want to play their way because his way is "better" or "more skillful". i dont remember him directly pushing his way on others, but dont remember a time where he specifically "didn't".

The others in this forum who like to say "the game is random and going for guaranteed damage is the way to go" however, are trying to push their opinion on other people and they do claim that there way of playing is better or more skillful and yet i don't see you responding to them for some reason.

 

[onedayitllmake]

As you can see the probability to guess a counter right is pretty slim since the opponent has 75% chance of hitting you and you have 25% chance on countering right, and as you keep countering the probability of guessing a countering right again reduces to almost nothing.

This is incorrect, and your math that lead you to this assumption is incorrect. I'm only pointing it out so that incorrect information does not get spread around. It's not an attack on you, you have valid points and I also agree that I enjoy the meta-game in DOA more than doing things on reaction.

If playing based only on only reaction was fun, then playing the computer would be more enjoyable. I think the 'guessing' game is part of DOA's draw because it helps you punish opponents who are predictable. It's the mixture of reaction and prediction/reading, that makes playing humans so much fun.

However I see the other side as well, where people would prefer to get more guaranteed punishment from proper spacing and whiff punishment.

 

[VirtuaKazama]

1) Its not "yomi superpowers". its literally just common sense and ability that every player has and practices. Just fundamentals and mindgames, its nothing special, and sure as hell not unique to me, and i'm' nowhere near pro at them. I just focus on them.

2) I don't like any of the Virtua Fighter characters besides Vanessa, and thats purely because she's a genderswap of Leon. Sides, VF is way way too bland. Never gets exciting to watch or play.

3) The issue (and what really irritates me) is people throwing around the word "Random" where it flat out doesn't apply, like HiguraShiki just demonstrated ("Not doing guaranteed damage? RANDOM!"). UNRELIABLE may be a more appropriate term in certain situations, but "Random" isn't. This isn't a game of dice, where you have absolutely no control over what is happening from either player.

If it was really random, then shit, both players might as well put down the controller because it makes no difference whether they are playing or NOT, they characters will just flail wildly regardless of any input from the controllers.

Or alternately, if it were random, when you pressed the punch button, rather than punch, what would actually be random is if your character instead did a grab, kick, counter or punch, with absolutely no way to tell which action will come out even though you pressed "punch".

OR, a third scenario that would actually be random, is if, when you punched a character, rather than being hit in the intended direction, they instead flailed wildly and flew in a different direction each time you hit them with the same attack, with absolutely no way of telling which way they will go, regardless of which attack you hit them with.

See what I mean? THOSE are situations where the term "Random" applies.

Does the stun game have issues? Of course. But is it "Random"? Hell no, otherwise stuns would be banned from tournaments and nobody would bother to use them since they can't control them in any way. The term does simply not apply.

My main issue is people just trying to throw the word "random" at everything they have problems with, as an excuse to disregard things they don't like. I mean, shit, I hate juggles and guaranteed damage, but I'm not sitting there calling them "random", they are still fully controlled and intended.

Again, by all means, if you can and want to demonstrate something truly random, then i'll stop griping about that word being thrown around. I just have yet to see it, and I hate things being mislabeled in such a way that its completely misleading.

Well, besides online, that has a certain "random" factor, such as me never being sure if its going to read my kicks or not. Though technically thats not random, either, since its a constant risk that leads to a certain result that i'm fully aware of and have taken precautions to get around.

Again, i'm not pro, and i'm not claiming to be, nor do I strive to be. I'm just calling BS on using the word "random" on things that aren't random.

Well my good sir, everyone is calling BS on your statement. If you say you hate guaranteed damage and juggles then why are you playing DOA?

You run your mouth about "I use fundamentals" and "Everybody should play by my rules". You say you don't use combos and guaranteed damage because "it's way too easy to get a win this way". If you say that at an offline tournament or gathering, I'm not the only one that's gonna be saying "scrub" and "free".

I understand that you are not a pro, I get that. But you can't be preaching this stuff to the tournament players. Again this ain't GameFAQs.

 

[Sam Sultan]

This is incorrect, and your math that lead you to this assumption is incorrect. I'm only pointing it out so that incorrect information does not get spread around. It's not an attack on you, you have valid points and I also agree that I enjoy the meta-game in DOA more than doing things on reaction.

If playing based only on only reaction was fun, then playing the computer would be more enjoyable. I think the 'guessing' game is part of DOA's draw because it helps you punish opponents who are predictable. It's the mixture of reaction and prediction/reading, that makes playing humans so much fun.

However I see the other side as well, where people would prefer to get more guaranteed punishment from proper spacing and whiff punishment.

That sentence came out wrong what i wanted to say is that the chance of successful counters decrease as the number of successful counters increase. To show you what i meant: What are the odds of someone successfully countering 3 times in a row in a situation where both players are playing randomly.

 

[onedayitllmake]

@samsultan
Now that you've re-phrased to be more clear, I see what you meant.

 

[Sam Sultan]

@samsultan
Now that you've re-phrased to be more clear, I see what you meant.

Yeah sorry for that. Bad sentence to describe what i meant. But i liked your post since indeed some stuff i wrote came out wrong and im gonna pay more attention to that in the future.

 

[Raansu]

Not going for guaranteed damage is not random it's just a different way of playing. And stun game is not random also, like i said and showed, attacker has advantage in a stun situation and thus far nobody could come up with a intelligent response on why it is random.

I stunned you, I beat your defense, but I still have to guess whether or not you are going to hold my strike or low hold and avoid my strike/throw. It is nothing but pure guessing until you reach the point of guaranteed punishment. It's fucking random.

 

[HiguraShiki]

1) Its not "yomi superpowers". its literally just common sense and ability that every player has and practices. Just fundamentals and mindgames, its nothing special, and sure as hell not unique to me, and i'm' nowhere near pro at them. I just focus on them.

2) I don't like any of the Virtua Fighter characters besides Vanessa, and thats purely because she's a genderswap of Leon. Sides, VF is way way too bland. Never gets exciting to watch or play.

3) The issue (and what really irritates me) is people throwing around the word "Random" where it flat out doesn't apply, like HiguraShiki just demonstrated ("Not doing guaranteed damage? RANDOM!"). UNRELIABLE may be a more appropriate term in certain situations, but "Random" isn't. This isn't a game of dice, where you have absolutely no control over what is happening from either player.

If it was really random, then shit, both players might as well put down the controller because it makes no difference whether they are playing or NOT, they characters will just flail wildly regardless of any input from the controllers.

Or alternately, if it were random, when you pressed the punch button, rather than punch, what would actually be random is if your character instead did a grab, kick, counter or punch, with absolutely no way to tell which action will come out even though you pressed "punch".

OR, a third scenario that would actually be random, is if, when you punched a character, rather than being hit in the intended direction, they instead flailed wildly and flew in a different direction each time you hit them with the same attack, with absolutely no way of telling which way they will go, regardless of which attack you hit them with.

See what I mean? THOSE are situations where the term "Random" applies.

Does the stun game have issues? Of course. But is it "Random"? Hell no, otherwise stuns would be banned from tournaments and nobody would bother to use them since they can't control them in any way. The term does simply not apply.

My main issue is people just trying to throw the word "random" at everything they have problems with, as an excuse to disregard things they don't like. I mean, shit, I hate juggles and guaranteed damage, but I'm not sitting there calling them "random", they are still fully controlled and intended.

Again, by all means, if you can and want to demonstrate something truly random, then i'll stop griping about that word being thrown around. I just have yet to see it, and I hate things being mislabeled in such a way that its completely misleading.

Well, besides online, that has a certain "random" factor, such as me never being sure if its going to read my kicks or not. Though technically thats not random, either, since its a constant risk that leads to a certain result that i'm fully aware of and have taken precautions to get around.

Again, i'm not pro, and i'm not claiming to be, nor do I strive to be. I'm just calling BS on using the word "random" on things that aren't random.

Let me try to make this as blatant and easy for morons to understand as possible.
If you STUN in DOA5, you have to GUESS whether or not the opponent is going to HOLD one of your attacks. That is random. You have no control over whether the opponent is going to either hold or try to avoid a grab. It is random.

You claim that virtual fighter is bland yet you fight with perhaps one of the most goddamn boring fighting styles on the face of the planet? Oh the irony.

Common sense and not yomi superpowers? It's common sense to AIM for guaranteed damage. What isn't common sense is to try to do most of the damage off of holds and doing stupid crap such as pressing mid punch and not doing anything because you think it is cool to play that way.

And yes your playstyle is completely random. As Raansu demonstrated before, all you do is hold. You are probably one of the easiest players in the world to beat because of your dumb playstyle.

And let me ask you this question. Why are you here on a competitive DOA forum if you don't give a crap about competitive gaming?

 

[Sly Bass]

Random - adj - Made, done, happening, or chosen without method or conscious decision

If it truly is random, both opponents would have to be face rolling their controllers. Discuss.