The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
P1naatt1ke1tt0
Active Member
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Is it because she lacks guaranteed damage? Because that would make Helena low tier.
ErickBello
Active Member
I laugh a little bit when I see this thread.
If I don't sound bossy... now you should develop a tier list.
If I don't sound bossy... now you should develop a tier list.
reese
New Member
Murakame
Active Member
Hitomi is good. People need to stop saying she isn't just because she lacks guaranteed damage. When she is near a wall she has easy access to guaranteed damage because alot of her moves wall splat. She doesn't even have to be in your face all she needs is for you to be near a wall and nail you with 46P or 236P and you take a good amount of damage.
She also has frame advantage; something alot of strikers lack. She has guard breaks that give anywhere from +3-8. 2P is +1 and her 6T is +10. Even though 2P is only +1 it still has to be respected by characters in her speed tier because her jab becomes 9 frames and her mids are both 12. She will beat out her opponent more often than not should they choose to respond with strikes.
She has access to a parry that shuts down both high and mid punches. Its not like other characters where you need to guess you can just throw it out and catch a punch more often than not; granting Hitomi frame advantage. For some characters that depend on those punches to begin an offense that parry can be an issue.
She also does not give a flying fuck about SS. Trying to SS Hitomi is one of the stupidest things you can do when she literally has tracking out of her ass. PP4P tracks. 4P tracks. 6H+K tracks. 4K tracks. 2H+K and strings with the kick track. 6T tracks. 33T tracks. 2P+K tracks. She has more than enough tracking to deal with SS.
Her gap closers are all either safe or advantage on block. They are all very effective whiff punishment tools. 3H+K gives free force tech followups. 6H+K tracks, has great range and is a nice stun. It even has followups. 46P is -7 on block and is 12 frames. Shit cannot be seen coming and has the greatest range of all her whiff punishers I believe. 236P is solid. 66K by itself forces people to block and guess what you will do next whether it be finishing off the string with the low, double high kicks (the last kick being -1 on block and diverts when held). or high kick mid p launcher.
Somebody please explain to me how everything I have just stated equates to a low tier character. I am seeing high mid at the least right now.
She also has frame advantage; something alot of strikers lack. She has guard breaks that give anywhere from +3-8. 2P is +1 and her 6T is +10. Even though 2P is only +1 it still has to be respected by characters in her speed tier because her jab becomes 9 frames and her mids are both 12. She will beat out her opponent more often than not should they choose to respond with strikes.
She has access to a parry that shuts down both high and mid punches. Its not like other characters where you need to guess you can just throw it out and catch a punch more often than not; granting Hitomi frame advantage. For some characters that depend on those punches to begin an offense that parry can be an issue.
She also does not give a flying fuck about SS. Trying to SS Hitomi is one of the stupidest things you can do when she literally has tracking out of her ass. PP4P tracks. 4P tracks. 6H+K tracks. 4K tracks. 2H+K and strings with the kick track. 6T tracks. 33T tracks. 2P+K tracks. She has more than enough tracking to deal with SS.
Her gap closers are all either safe or advantage on block. They are all very effective whiff punishment tools. 3H+K gives free force tech followups. 6H+K tracks, has great range and is a nice stun. It even has followups. 46P is -7 on block and is 12 frames. Shit cannot be seen coming and has the greatest range of all her whiff punishers I believe. 236P is solid. 66K by itself forces people to block and guess what you will do next whether it be finishing off the string with the low, double high kicks (the last kick being -1 on block and diverts when held). or high kick mid p launcher.
Somebody please explain to me how everything I have just stated equates to a low tier character. I am seeing high mid at the least right now.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
People think that just because she doesn't have great sit down stuns that she is garbage. But we all know that 90% of the cast can't guarantee shit from their sit down stuns. It's the same with Hayate players acting like they alone are victims of shitty balance when in fact they are no worse of than the vast majority of the characters in DOA5.
Top Tier
High Tier
Mid Tier > Hayate and Hitomi are right here along with eveyone else.
from a recent painful experience she also can ruin ones wake up kicks,dances out of range of your kicks then uses some long range move to break your face in.i don't know if other characters can do this but shes the first ive experienced have that type of punishment
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Hitomi is at the bottom of the barrel. She is not a good character and her "good" tools are EASILY over shadowed by other characters with similar tools that function better and net better results/follow ups. If she kept her frame advantage/traps from the demo as well as her natural combo's it would slightly outweigh a lot of her negatives. But as is, she's stuck in DoA4 and will never get out of it. And she can't even do DoA4 style all that well as she actually had MORE options off certain setups in DoA4 than she does now. Ironic huh?
A lot of characters can do that.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Instead of throwing out all these "so-and-so character has so-and-so advantages" how about actually listing your ideas of how their match ups are against other characters.
Instead of of saying that so-and-so has frame advantage, or reach, or damage, how about actually explaining this in the context of matchups. Something like "Sarah destroys Hitomi because the former can keep pressuring since she has massive frame advantage." Or something like "Sarah beats out Kasumi since she can easily launch her opponent of a single hit without having to play the stun game." That's how you do tiers, you compare characters to one another via their matchups.
Instead of of saying that so-and-so has frame advantage, or reach, or damage, how about actually explaining this in the context of matchups. Something like "Sarah destroys Hitomi because the former can keep pressuring since she has massive frame advantage." Or something like "Sarah beats out Kasumi since she can easily launch her opponent of a single hit without having to play the stun game." That's how you do tiers, you compare characters to one another via their matchups.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Ya and they only caught all mids or all highs. Hitomi's parry caught all standing punches. It was unique to Hitomi. It's fine that Leifang got that in DoA5, its not fine that she get's a guaranteed follow up out of it and Hitomi gets to play the guessing game again.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
lol i say that too, but people like RD and Hoodless sue him well. Anyways...here are his problems....very easy to crush, not all that safe, in doa 4 hell(has to play the stun game), not a lot of ways to get free damage, has to rely on mixup/gimmicky to win, and can knock out of sway and duck easily too.
Well I'm saying he's bad because I don't want to be flame again.
That and Ryujin and AP destroy my case for him when I talked to them at FF5.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
lol i say that too, but people like RD and Hoodless sue him well. Anyways...here are his problems....very easy to crush, not all that safe, in doa 4 hell(has to play the stun game), not a lot of ways to get free damage, has to rely on mixup/gimmicky to win, and can knock out of sway and duck easily too.
Well I'm saying he's bad because I don't want to be flame again.
Helena is arguabley the best character in the game and she embodies those qualities as well.
Leifang's parry only counters puches? Does it not also deflect kicks?
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Doesn't Lei Fang have a parry for all high's, one for both mid's and her stance auto parries high and mid punches?
Raansu
Well-Known Member
...
She has her regular high and mid parries but in DoA5 they gave her a parry that catches all standing punches as well and it can be done in both neutral and in string and the parry gives her guaranteed follow ups.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
So you think Zack is magically top tier DR2K?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
No, I think he's mostly undiscovered and barely played vs Helena who is a much more popualr character and has more information discovered. Lack of people playing him stifles his growth.
Wow they gave her more parries? Shimbori really likes her.
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
i no longer own the game but i wont let that stop me for edgumacating clowns on why eliot is a shit character so i'll go deep indepth on why that is.
players should not be losing to him under any circumstances other than unfamiliarity and not utilizing sidestepping. eliots strings ALL leave him at disadvantage even his 46p guardbreak ender leaves him -4 all his mixups options from his strings leave him at disadvantage the K,P, 2P ALL negative with 2p being at disadvantage even on normal hit. his neutral game is abysmal and he can not open up blocking opponents. no low other than 2H+K stuns on normal hit so other than that one slow easy to react to low, an opponent comfortably stand and block all his offense and then punish him accordingly without worry about some hard to react to low stunning them. during any of his strings
On to sidestepping...
universal sidestepping already destroys him with him only possessing exactly ONE tracking move. and that one tracking move is a high so it can still work on universal sidesteppers which would be fine accept many characters have command sidesteps that not only avoid linear moves but also high crush making his one tracking move completely worthless. characters with high crush command sidesteps get an automatic 7-3 favor to them since eliot is literally helpless against them with none of his offense able to track mid or low.
guaranteed damage...
he gets none
moving on...
force techs...
with all his downfalls eliot still doesn't have access to any decent force tech/pseudo force tech to make up for his overall shittyness like a certain french whore. with his weak neutral game even if he successfully forcetechs anyone he has no frame advantage or good mixups to take advantage of it so its on to another series of guessing for him
next..
9frame strike NOT all its cracked up to be. yeah its a good tool but his basic jab was already 10i and doesn't make up for his horribly slow mids and lows. 7p is easily crushable with short reach and only stuns on counter hit
on to parries...
they were his one redeeming quality that had people pegging him as top tier pre-launch with them giving him 20frames of advantage that gave him access to guaranteed launchers. of course TN being TN couldn't have that and secretly nerfed them to 16frames of advantage for the final game thus eliminating any guaranteed launchers and sticking him with non-stunning strikes that are 15frames or lower as his only guaranteed damage from them
in the end after 6months of using him exclusively i can comfortably say that he IS low tier and i have yet to see any legit arguments to prove otherwise
players should not be losing to him under any circumstances other than unfamiliarity and not utilizing sidestepping. eliots strings ALL leave him at disadvantage even his 46p guardbreak ender leaves him -4 all his mixups options from his strings leave him at disadvantage the K,P, 2P ALL negative with 2p being at disadvantage even on normal hit. his neutral game is abysmal and he can not open up blocking opponents. no low other than 2H+K stuns on normal hit so other than that one slow easy to react to low, an opponent comfortably stand and block all his offense and then punish him accordingly without worry about some hard to react to low stunning them. during any of his strings
On to sidestepping...
universal sidestepping already destroys him with him only possessing exactly ONE tracking move. and that one tracking move is a high so it can still work on universal sidesteppers which would be fine accept many characters have command sidesteps that not only avoid linear moves but also high crush making his one tracking move completely worthless. characters with high crush command sidesteps get an automatic 7-3 favor to them since eliot is literally helpless against them with none of his offense able to track mid or low.
guaranteed damage...
he gets none
moving on...
force techs...
with all his downfalls eliot still doesn't have access to any decent force tech/pseudo force tech to make up for his overall shittyness like a certain french whore. with his weak neutral game even if he successfully forcetechs anyone he has no frame advantage or good mixups to take advantage of it so its on to another series of guessing for him
next..
9frame strike NOT all its cracked up to be. yeah its a good tool but his basic jab was already 10i and doesn't make up for his horribly slow mids and lows. 7p is easily crushable with short reach and only stuns on counter hit
on to parries...
they were his one redeeming quality that had people pegging him as top tier pre-launch with them giving him 20frames of advantage that gave him access to guaranteed launchers. of course TN being TN couldn't have that and secretly nerfed them to 16frames of advantage for the final game thus eliminating any guaranteed launchers and sticking him with non-stunning strikes that are 15frames or lower as his only guaranteed damage from them
in the end after 6months of using him exclusively i can comfortably say that he IS low tier and i have yet to see any legit arguments to prove otherwise
