Free Step Dodge

Brute
Brute
Struggles in every other aspect like SS checks and space control. It's almost like it's bi... oh.
My mistake. Please, go on and tell me how terrible your main is.
Coolcatn1kk1
Coolcatn1kk1
Phase 4 is bad at this point and someone who actually plays her knows that the best. Your right so don't even bother responding ♡ @xDevious
xDevious
xDevious
Phase 4 isn’t a zoning character though. She’s meant to do her tele mix-up, try to land a CH, and get them into combos for massive damage. The massive damage on combos are gone, and the best range tool she has is Tenfu P+K which is unsafe. Her zoning is trash, so I have literally no idea who you lost to that made you come to that conclusion.
xDevious
xDevious
But please tell me how much you’ve played and studied her to know my main better than me. It’s not bias that I think she’s trash, look at these other people in here that agree with me. I wasn’t even the one who initially said she’s low tier, I just confirmed it from a main’s standpoint. She’s awful in 6 until they fix her scaling. She’s “THE” combo-Character, yet she has weak combos compared to a lot of other
xDevious
xDevious
characters I also play.
Brute
Brute
1) I didn't claim to know your main better than you. I suggested that people often have problems evaluating their mains relative to other characters. Since nobody is a master of all characters, you can know your main inside and out, and still not properly assess how they stack up against all other characters.
Brute
Brute
2) If playtime/experience is the primary determinant of the aforementioned assessment, there are some pretty troubling consequences. Example: if I had more experience w/ Nyotengu, then I could more accurately assess how she stacks up than you by default. So if I were to say that she was the worst character in the game (worse than Phase 4)...
Brute
Brute
...you'd just have to be content with it until your experience with her usurped mine (maybe it does, this is just a hypothetical, but you understand the concern).
3) I'll admit, my lack of character knowledge may be an issue here, as I do not know how to punish Tenfu P+K. The placement and frames range wildly, but the most compromising I found is -5, which I can't punish FT or BT. It's usually about -1 to -2...
Brute
Brute
...I would un-ironically be grateful if you told me the method to universally punishing that.
4) Looking at other people who agree with you is not that compelling. Popular opinion has never really been that reliable in the general population, and the DOA community doesn't skew those odds favorably.
Brute
Brute
5) Lastly, there seems to be an assumption that I suggested Phase 4 was not low tier, which I never did. I did suggest that she has great speed, potent zoning tools, and good damage output. The last point is debatable. As for zoning tools, everything is relative. I could argue that Hayabusa is not a zoning character because his zoning game sucks compared to Ayane's...
Brute
Brute
...but you probably wouldn't agree that he's not a zoner. You can argue that Phase 4 isn't a zoner, but tools like 66K2P+K, Tenfu P+K or literally anything from Chifu (flaws and all) are so far beyond what Marie's kit offers Phase may as well be a zoning god in direct comparison.
Brute
Brute
6) I'm beginning to think that Coolcat is the actual Derek Savage. ♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡♡
xDevious
xDevious
I’m not saying playtime and experience is everything, but the fact that I’ve played her every single game since when she came out in 5U, I think I can pretty securely know her strengths and weaknesses. In 5U and 5LR she had clear strengths (damage, speed) and clear weaknesses (unsafe, predictable). In 6, she has one strength, which is her speed, but she has a ton of weaknesses compared to a lot of other chars.
xDevious
xDevious
She’s unsafe, she’s predictable, her damage is lacking unless you manage to get to every single Danger Zone before your opponent, her best tool from range (Tenfu P+K) is unsafe and non-tracking. Literally, if you see a Phase 4 jump into Tenfu at range, sidestep and you won’t be hit, it’s that simple, it’s not as great as people say it is. It comes out fast, sure, but if you learn to deal with it, it’s not amazing.
xDevious
xDevious
Every “zoning tool” Phase 4 has that you listed are unsafe, except for Chifu P. 66K.2P+K is never a good idea on block as people who get used to it will easily just poke you right as 66K connects, and then you’re stuck looking like a fool. Sure, she has better range than Marie, but Marie and Phase 4 are not comparable when it comes to playstyle, so that’s irrelevant.
xDevious
xDevious
Fact of the matter is, I am not bias. Phase 4 is an objectively worse character than a lot of characters in this game. She requires more effort than basically every other character to actually pick up a win with. She is high risk, moderate reward (at best).
Coolcatn1kk1
Coolcatn1kk1
Brute
Brute
"if you see a Phase 4 jump into Tenfu at range, sidestep and you won’t be hit,"
-Incredibly dismissive over-simplification aside (on second thought, you probably would argue that Ryu's not a zoner), I'd still like to know how to guaranteed punish the move.

"Marie and Phase 4 are not comparable when it comes to playstyle"
-That's literally what tiers are. Comparing kits/playstyles to see which are more effective.
xDevious
xDevious
I do agree Ryu has great zoning, whilst punishable it’s still harder. Over simplification? It’s literally the easiest way to get away... You asked me how to punish it successfully; that’s how. Sidestep and capitalize. That’s just how simple it is.

Tier lists are indeed looking at who’s the strongest characters on the roster, but you do not compare their fighting style. Tina can’t be compared to Kasumi when it
xDevious
xDevious
comes down to playstyle. They do not play alike at all. Tina doesn’t rely on strikes, Kasumi doesn’t rely on HiC throws. Kits are one thing, but you cannot compare a throw character, a strike character, and a hold character in terms of playstyle. You compare them on how strong they are at what they do best, nothing else.
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