Free Step Dodge

As far as movesets go though, TN made me vomit from the additions they made to Ryu. 44P looks like garbage. WR H+K is extremely out of place, H+KKP looks ugly (should've been H+KK4K and been the DOA5 3H+K type kick), and 33T is great... but I don't like it. It should stay because it's good for him, but I don't like it. It just feels nasty.

The Hi-Counter 46T is cool though.

DOA5U 3H+K (so that the first hit can come faster)... and I'll reiterate how much I hate H+KKP. That move is sooooo ugly and yea he didn't need it before but then again, looking at DOA4 Hayabusa it kind of made me get naseous as well playing him. Don't get me wrong, 8K was great and certain other little things were but my problem fighting him is only his lack of hitboxes on things like ong 8T when punishing.

yea he didn't need "it"* (it=ongyoin)

44P = useless | H+KKP = useless | 34K9P/4H+K9P = useless | 4PK = useless |HiC 46T = useless | WR H+K useful, but dumb-looking. should have been his old 236K input/animation w/ tracking | 3P+K P+K = nice, I guess? | 33T = sexy

Haha I'd kill for 46T's increased advantage for Hayate. Not that heed needs it, the grab is solid as is (though the animation would be nice to have).

I agree (if this is what you meant) that 236K should've come back instead of WR H+K. 3KK from DOA4 would be nice too, granted 3K2K was given a more demanding amount of advantage.

Hayate is great because he can do everything. You approach your opponent in a manner that strikes their weakness. Outspeed the grapplers. Outspace the 9 frame jabbers. Against ppl his speed tier they need specific things to take him on; tracking being one of them. His flaws are his unsafety, poor mixups outside of stun (a good mixup to me is a mid low mixup in which the mid can be delayed._

Kokoro has good mixups. Kasumi has good mixups. HItomi has average mixup ouside of stun and frame advantage situations because the majority of her stuff goes High to low or high / low so you can duck and stay safe.

everything else once it gets to a mid punch the rest of the string is all mid. Not much guessing thier; either hold mid or dont.

Back to Hayate his mixups arent that great outside of stun but his strings are good because they are respectable. PP2K 9 times out of 10 the opponent stands there trying to block the low.

however Hayate doesn't have alot reliable strings to delay. I suspect this is why he was given frame advantage to help him open people up with 50 /50s. His stuns while good are not deep. So more often than not you have to pick an option and commit to it since he cant really take some time to think unless 3P stuns.

or jabs / 9p. He also doesnt have a tracking move that leads into pressure reliably. this would have been 4P6P if it wasnt interuptable by jabs and some mids.

In general he can be jab poked out of a few of his mixups. At distance as long as he isnt being stupid with his range tools he can be fine. I can hold 3H+K and 214P on reaction but not everyone can so sometimes hayate can get away with convincing people he has a ranged mixup when he doesnt.

But yeah just wanted to point those things out. I know hayate and kasumi are good characters but i feel that not many know of thier flaws and how to exploit them. I see people taking 66PP from kasumi more than they should and respecting hosinpo dash when it doesnt need to be respected. SS strike beats all followups. Bayman tank roll destroys it completely.

Sometimes when the flaws arent made apparent TN decides to do stupid things. I'm tired of characters with potential to be complete getting either nerfed or getting things that do nothing for them. I want a game where I can look at characters and say yeah this is a complete character.

In 5U right now the characters that are complete IMO are Momiji, Leon, Hitomi, and maybe one or two others that slip my mind. Those that I mentioned dont need any buffs or nerfs, if anything small tweaks to thier move properties could go a long way as we saw with Leon's grab change.

Momiji could prolly use a new move or two if absolutely necessary but shes not struggling and isnt missing much at all. For Hayate all i want is 4H+K, vanilla wind dash K, +2 on 236K. This would be enough to complete him for me.

Oh and Hayate is WAY better than Ryu in this game like its not even funny. Ryu has a better stun game and better 12 frame throw as well as holds. In vanilla it was even but I LOL at the super ninja in this game because his animations and the things he has to do to open people up are silly.

Ryu's throw game is better as well. Yea, in DOA5 though I could definitely argue for Hayate and Ryu to be 5/5 or 6/4 Ryu (While others argued 6/4 Hayate which was understandable, it's just playing both of them... I really felt Ryu had the edge.

Ryu lost 4PK's frame advantage, 66K was nerfed on advantage, Ongyoin still is easily beat. (Not completely, but pretty easily).

Frankly if 4PK/3H+K is going to be as it is now, it needs to guard break. Call Vanilla's 4PK excessive if you like but it truly DEMANDED the respect it deserves so I say let it be. 3H+K on the other hand is fine at +2 like it was, cause you'll never see it coming. See 3H+K might be a 2 in 1 now but that doesn't mean it's more helpful. It's still techable and it's still a knockdown unlike Hayate's.

and yea you're right, he does have to do Crazy things to open up the opponent, so you know what? 46T should say as is, since he can start something with it. There's something for opening up, but I definitely open up my idea from before. 2H+K need to be better in this game. Here's what I envision for Ryu. First of all he's got NH stuns already, specifically 6K is a good intiator.