Free Step Dodge

Hayate keeps getting nerfed and it's annoying. Regardless, Ten is right. For the most part you'll be fleshing out a lot of PP6PK for just about everything. 66KKK is usually the best option to complete your combos because it's relatively consistent and 4P6P+K~K, BT 7K has been nerfed substantially.

His damage may not be bad overall but it keeps him from being an engaging character...

Thanks for all the advice guys. Really glad i picked hayate back up. Wanted to pick him or hayabusa back up and since i saw that everyone else was going with Hayabusa, i decided to go with hayate. Hes so much more fun to use than i remember, and I feel like ill be able to do a lot with him if i stay dedicated. Gonna be using him, Mila and Hitomi for a while

"Everyone else was going with Hayabusa" what?

It's true though. You hardly see any Hayates anymore let alone any worth mentioning. He's not as inspiring to play as Hayabusa even though Busa does have his issues as well.

There's been a huge influx of hayabusas online lately. Maybe im just entering weird lobbies, but i see hayabusa, jann lee, and the VF characters more than anyone else now. I dont even really see people using the other 3 ninjas that much now for some reason

Apparently my experience is not shared by everyone, but for me, PSN is still 80% Ayane, 20% all other characters combined. Personally, I run into more Hayates than Busas, though that may be because I play Busa and people love doing that fucking MU, much to my chagrin.

I will admit there are more Hayabusa mains I know than Hayate mains, though that may be because Hayabusa players deliberately seek me out. Hayate seems to be a far more common sub character than Hayabusa does.

Either way, in the "pro" circuit, neither character is extremely popular. I can name about 3 offline players known for using each character and that's about it.

And only one is really up there consistently and that's Manny.

Regardless, yeah I mean the top Hayates are me, Ten, Zeo, and Queen Jak online but I haven't kept up with Jak, besides he mains Christie. Zeo mains Akira and prefers Ein. Ten mains Ein and pocketed Hayate. I'm the only one who really mains him but I don't really play anymore.

Offline, Rabies claims to be the best (as you saw on Facebook). Most of his tech I already know, but there's more to figure out.

PL's Hayate isn't inspired. That's partially because he hasn't really taken DOA seriously enough til now. He could be the best but I don't think he'll bounce back. Not that he isn't capable, I just think he won't enjoy it so he'll back out and go to Gen Fu or JL. I don't blame him either.

Shade is one of the best Hayates offline as well but the reality is, it's not his Hayate that's good. It's him. He plays so damn solid by the books that it's very tough to face him. This is true for all of his characters. I don't feel like I'm watching those characters. I know I'm watching Shade.

Going back to PL for a second to make a point, in my opinion I just don't think he feels inspired with Hayate and more. Hayate used to be basic rushdown with space control. This was because he had multiple get in moves from mid screen which allowed him to get in not necessarily safely but with high pressure that you had to deal with.

Now, that still stands but it's a bit tougher because just like with the other characters, he stands on a true 3D plain meaning just about all of his old get in moves that used to stick are now weakened by the sidestep and freestep (for things like 214P/214K/236K/3H+K).

On top of that, his damage consistently gets nerfed over and over and over.

Wind Dash K used to be 30+20 in DOA4 as a 15i move. It was made a launcher and reverted to 26+20 in Vanilla. This was fine. The launcher was GOOD and had potential. Then it was nerfed and taken away as a launcher to be a knockdown again, I tolerated this but saw that the launcher had much more potential, even if it was overly unsafe.

Then in 5U, they nerfed it again to 20+16 and to add insult to injury 4P was nerfed to 20 damage from 25.

This brought his new 4P6P+K~K, BT 7K bnb down by 7 points on CH which is a major difference for a juggle. On top of that his special sidestep was nerfed from 32 to 24 damage... since when was that a problem? No one cried about it. 1K got the same treatment from 26 to 24.

on top of that most of his juggles were lost. While someone like Hayabusa can play around a bit on his stun to launch juggles, generally all Hayate has is PP6PK which becomes an annoyance. I say PP6PK because it does the best of both worlds. It knocks them away but keeps them in your mid range so that you can choose to back off or run pressure.

but that being said, even though people the damage is alright for what it is, a lot of his flashy stuff was lost between now and DOA4. An example is with max threshold 4K6K in DOA4, you could get 8P, PPP, 7K off that launcher. The damage was good and it looked just as good. 6K was a reliable relauncher as well but lets be honest, no one likes that kick. They like it because it's high and that's it.

But yea... this isn't to say Hayate is bad. His solidness can not be argued. He's what a normal DOA5 character should strive to be... but it's so much funner to play easy mode characters (Christie/Kasumi) or characters that make you feel like a bad ass when you pull off some flashy stuff (Rig/Hayabusa). I'd like to see more flashy type characters with solid frames like Vanilla Ryu.

(Granted, like we discussed, he did have room for improvement and even now he's got room for improving his solidness in the Ongyoin realm).

Hayate just needs his launch heights adjusted and his stance intergrated into more of his moves. 3k6P+K, H+K6P+K, 6K6P+K (this one is a special case, and the case is it'd be changed to the 4K Hayabusa animation. All 3 of the other ninjas share it, except Hayate)

So nah, I'm not crying that Hayate is underpowered. He's just a becomes a drag to play after awhile. That feeling is never present in DOA4 for me with him. I hope that at least says something.