Free Step Dodge

Force_of_Nature
RH_Stealth
RH_Stealth
Probably almost every fundamental skill? Spacing being one, sidestepping another, stagger escaping another...
RH_Stealth
RH_Stealth
fuzzy guarding...
Brute
Brute
Sounds like stuff that is all snubbed when playing online.
Force_of_Nature
Force_of_Nature
True. There's no such thing as "fundamentals" online.
RH_Stealth
RH_Stealth
Yeah well that's probably all I'll probably ever play and I want to improve. It's quite frustrating hearing from people that nothing you do matters, and that you'll never be good just because you can't play in the offline scene. Sorry I don't live in the U.S. or Toronto, where offline scenes actually exist.
Brute
Brute
Again, I'm not sure what you're expecting us to tell you. It's like being a blind racecar driver asking for help to improve. All the help people can give you applies to people that can see. If you're driving blind, there's just not much that can be done, even if it's not your fault that you're blind.
Brute
Brute
That's online. We could teach fundamentals all day but it would be IMPOSSIBLE for you to implement them properly to become a high level player if you're trying it online. Online just doesn't allow for it.

It's not us trying to validate your efforts, it's just the way this game's online is.
RH_Stealth
RH_Stealth
How does (depending on the connection) a slight delay make side stepping, spacing and stagger escaping impossible? How doesn't online allow for it?

There are good people online. People who are smart, people who space, read opponents well. I don't see how a smart player's efforts are completely ignored just because it's online. It isn't always a 2 second delay with inputs.
Brute
Brute
I feel like it should go without saying.

It should be very obvious. You need to sidestep the moment you see a non-tracking attack. Offline, you can dodge it on reaction. Online, a few frames delay causes it to hit you.
Fuzzy guarding is an insanely powerful tool. It's also not a gigantic animation. As such, the timing must be accurate.
Brute
Brute
When you can't reliably input it exactly when you intend to, it often doesn't work.
Spacing is some of the worst. You'll hit something and the game won't register it due to a tiny spike in the connection. For example, trying running up to someone at range to be in mid range. stop instantly, use 3K, then quickly back up.
Offline this is a great spacing strategy and actually very legit. It doesn't work online.
Brute
Brute
And yes, good players are better than bad players, even online. But, they are forced to employ BSy tactics and rely on the net behaving (or not behaving) to win as well. Those aren't fundamentals.
Brute
Brute
I've played great tournament players both online and offline. They play completely differently. The fundamentals they employ offline they don't use online. Matches become much more random and much more stupid. They're aware of this, so they just take it for what it is
RH_Stealth
RH_Stealth
You say that it should go without saying, yet most games don't have the ability to be played on one console. They require LAN. Although LAN is very good, you make it seem like that just wouldn't be good enough for DOA. So, other games can be considered competitive when played online, but not DOA?
Brute
Brute
Yes, DOA's netcode combined with the way the game's core mechanics are constructed make it impossible to play competitively online.
I can't speak for all other games, but I do know some that can be played competitively online provided you have a good net. But these games typically aren't fighting games.
Force_of_Nature
Force_of_Nature
^ What Brute said. The way how offline tourney players play online is not how they play offline because they're unable to play the game properly. The "good" people online are generally just more accustomed to playing in lag and playing in an online environment with online tactics. In short, the "fundamentals" you use online differ to the fundamentals you'd use offline.
Force_of_Nature
Force_of_Nature
Also, proper spacing and movement is almost impossible online unless you're completely accustomed to playing in latency. Unfortunately, online matches are never legit no matter how "good" the connection may seem. It's not until one plays a set offline that you appreciate how illegitimate online is.
Brute
Brute
For example, I've seen really good tournament players loose to noobs online who basically just spam Zack's 2K over-and-over again. They know how to get out of it. Anyone somewhat decent does. But online, what you know AND what you can physically execute don't reliably factor in.
RH_Stealth
RH_Stealth
In my first match after my last post here, my opponent used SSing on me. I've used it a bit too, and I'm going to keep doing it, and I'm going to try stagger escaping, and fuzzy guarding, and spacing.

Even though I know this wasn't your intent, this has been very discouraging, and I'm going to do my damn best to learn and use these skills effectively. Online. Because that's all I can do.
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