Free Step Dodge

Hayate doesn't exactly have many if any bad MU's. His spacing and zoning capability is incredible along with his KBD. His throw damage is higher, he can maintain pressure better, has better GB's, has a Karate Deathfist. Hayate's keepout is really pretty damn good too. I'm not sure if Ayane dominates the cast as much as people say she does. She seems to get wrecked easily offline. Online she's bullshit.

I think she gets wrecked because she can be difficult to use to her full potential with how complicated the character is. "Higher throw damage" 64T 3KKK high/mid P/mid K launcher guess 66KK4 4P~K

I think you're suffering from "i've been using this character for so long i forgot why she's good"itis

i used to think anna from tekken was a bad character when i lost and i just realized i wasn't using her tools correctly and when i did i just got so much better

I'm not exactly "bad" with Ayane but do recognize her limitations a bit. 64T~3KKK is not guaranteed. The last kick can be held. Raijin & Nakiryu do more damage, especially on HiC. Hayate has a stance that crushes mids & a command SS. Don't underestimate his strengths.

i'm not, i'm just saying you're under estimating how good ayane is

I know how good Ayane is, but something seems off about her.

It's her movement that seems off

Nothing's wrong with her movement, it's amazing. It's just that when she loses momentum she seems to get fucked up compared to someone like Christie.

She's not suppose to have momentum, she's suppose to be hit and run

Lol, What do you think momentum is?

"Hayate has a stance that crushes mids" Ayane can crush mids by sneezing. >>

Though his command SS dodges Kasumi's tracking P+K (as does minuet but not jak surprisingly) which leads me to believe it dodges other moves it shouldn't.

Only 4P crushes mids and it only does that throughout half the animation. 6P can crush mids too but has a very small window where it does that. Almost every character has a move that crushes mids such as 33P for Kasumi (actually most characters 33P). Hayate's command SS is pretty damn effective along with his Wind Dash stances.

lol, a lot of what I read is highly inaccurate, by Force and Xavier. Force, Ayane does not get wrecked easily offline. She gets wrecked when the player cannot make efficient use of her tools often enough in any match up. The character has tons of different ways to condition and pressure opponents "uniquely" than the generic pressure most of the cast has to implement.

Hayate isn't better than Ayane at all, and his "deathfist" is a generic whiff punisher most characters have, and Ayane's deathfist as you call it is her 236K drill kick. Hayate's 2/8P+K isn't much compared to the velocity of crushes Ayane has and the amount of tracking she has. A simply well-timed PP will stuff his 2/8P+K.

No other character in the game has i10 jab that auto-conditions opponents due to how incredibly unpredictable you can be once it's blocked, and leaves her at -1. Ayane's stun launch game is better, she has super fast access to both her forward and back turned strikes for mix ups including a mid kick that's a frame trap on block.

ty for that hajin

Ayane has plenty of pressure that I hardly ever see you using, Force. Her wall game, oki, and wall oki are all very potent and sync well with one another. 6K2K is solid string for conditioning on hit confirm and creates oki situations. 3H+K creates oki situations, 236K creates oki situations, 64T/64H creates devilish vortex and/or into oki situations.

Hayate's guard breaks that leave him at +3 can be thrown on read or interrupted by i9 to i12 strikes on read (except for 9PP). And unlike Ayane's 1P+K backspin, Hayate's wind dash have very seeable and predictable animations and it's recovery time allows him to get punished if it's ranged incorrectly. Whereas Ayane's 1P+K back spin is always unpredictable since it doesn't leave a tell.

Ayane isn't a "hit and run" character. The character is a defensive powerhouse with scary 50/50 mix ups that often force a must-hold 50/50 rather than you stagger escaping. She gains offensive mix up at all 3 hit levels while in BT stance more than other characters are allowed to, and on par to Helena's stance mix up and has a threshold reset mix up.

Ayane also contains one of the fastest whiff punishers in the game, which is BT6P that launches on counter hit for easy 60+ to 70+ for whiff punishment. There are plenty of characters that have higher damaging throws than Ayane. That doesn't make them any better than her either. Her throw damage is just fine and 64T gives her so much 50/50 mix ups that if I grab you, you are always going to be getting looped for it.