Free Step Dodge

iHajinShinobi
iHajinShinobi
The recovery on Ayane's backflip is faster in comparison to Hayate's backflip. So is Ryu's, not a good example.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
If I set myself in the right place maybe. Hayate lost his way of ruling out wakeup kicks and 7P+K was never it. Generally even if you do the flip as quickly as you can, you probably ended up too close after the combo anyway, so it's pointless... know what I mean? That mid will catch you and you'll be going down, with the tables turned.
Brute
Brute
As long as there's no walls getting in the way and you're not caught finishing an exceptionally long combo while the opponent's on the ground, I've never had trouble evading wake-up kicks with any of the three. But I do have a lot more experience with Ryu than the other two, so maybe some weird voodoo shit has been going on.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
Ryu on the other hand can tele on command, and if he does it in the right timing, he can get that advantage, even if it's only small advantage. Ayane and Kasumi as well but not Hayate. You can't avoid the wake up kick game anymore.
Brute
Brute
If by "tele" you mean his ongyoin teleports, he gains no advantage from them and you'll be hard pressed to enter the stance and execute the free teleport before a WU kick snags you. If you mean the ong parry, it will only catch mids.
When in close range, your best bet is to hurry the fuck up and try 9P
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
notice i said right timing, and also if his tele's weren't enough 9P is and it always has been.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
A move doesn't decide whether or not to give advantage, you get advantage if you do it right. If you have the tele impact (warp) frame impact when their wake up kick starts you'll PROBABLY get +3 or something atleast, which is enough to throw out a 4PK even if they block it netting you +9, and now it's your turn again.
Brute
Brute
9P actually requires you literally be hitting their collision box to work right, so you risk a lot running in for it. And with "right timing" you could just block/counter/backstep/whatever to get around WU kicks. I'm referring to generally safe ways to avoid WU kicks, and I don't see teleports as one of them. Even the ong parry is no safer than a 6H from any character. The rest leave him at disadvantage.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
Ok brute, because I've never used Ryu before in 5, 4, or 2U, OR 3. I'm not suggesting it. i'm telling you. From experience. From watching, trying it myself and seeing how it works. 9p has been a strong tool for getting over someone before they wake up kick for forever now.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
And i say a well timed tele because I know how bad wake up kicks can be on whiff. There's so much options from behind a wake up kicker that it's ridiculous
Brute
Brute
It's decent, but so is Hayate's 7P+K. In my experience, both contain about the same risk involved. Neither are perfect, both are useful.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
9p still wins because it's defeating both kicks and generally is easier to get. Chances are if you feel you're in the wake up kick danger zone you're in the range to 9p over them no matter what.
Brute
Brute
"Chances are if you feel you're in the wake up kick danger zone you're in the range to 9p over them no matter what."
So not true...
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
In the case of Hayate, if you're in the dead zone for a wakeup kick... no back flip will defeat a mid wake up kick. So it's block or risk taking it, and possibly throwing the match... on top of that Ryu's got back flip too and his goes into his stance directly as well. Seems like he's got more options
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
"So not true" Oh it's very true. There's 3 zones of the wake up kick. Tip, Middle, and On. Tip is where the edge of their foot will be. In this case you can kbd away and you're fine.
Brute
Brute
Not gonna lie, baiting a wake-up kick and following it up with 7P into a shoho izuna is one of my favorite tactics. Ryu's backflip is better than Hayate's, don't get me wrong. By I've avoid mid-WU kicks with Hayate's as well, as long as your timing is early.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
Middle is shifty, it's up to you to decide what's better to chance, a backflip or kbd that'll get you tipped, or to go hard and try to 9p, which you'll probably get.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
and on. On means you're on them, pushing against and you will get that 9p.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
But what I don't understand is why is it that Hayate... the shinobi of the wind... is slow. Powerful... ok... why is he slow?! The wind doesn't have to be strong. When you think of wind does it not mean fast? I just don't get it.
TakedaZX
TakedaZX
and if 9p wasn't enough, there's 8T aka Guillotine throw... a throw and a wake up kick crush? Well shit. >.>
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