Free Step Dodge

VF's WUK ground game is pretty damn annoying in itself, especially with there being no forced techs (only ground hits). The high number of strings (like in VF) is part of the MU aspect of DOA and 3D fighters in general. These games have relatively easier execution than 2D fighters because 3D metagame is helluva lot deeper and there is a helluva lot more you have to think about during a match.

OTG combos get ridiculous, but you kind of have to know the opponent won't insta tech. WUKs also have less range, less invuln frames, and way more recovery frames. You can punish a whiffed WUK with your best launcher. Oki is just a lot more rewarding in that game, which I agree with.

VF doesn't have nearly as many strings, but I know what you mean, and you're right to an extent. 3D metagame is deeper, and I'm fond of that aspect of it. The problem I have with the game isn't the idea of it, or how it work -on paper-. The problem I have is that it requires ridiculous precision to not be punished for doing the right thing at times.

That's VF though, not DOA. In VF you still need to call the opponent out on not teching. In DOA, instead of OTG combos, you have Forced Techs to maintain pressure. VF stages are also miles smaller than DOA stages, and almost no one can hold WUK's in VF, where in DOA you can and they're technically reactable offline.

If WUK's are giving you trouble offline, there's generally a problem with the player in dealing with them. You discourage WUK's with ground hits & Forced Techs to allow the Tech roll metagame to commence.

Stagger escaping isn't a bad concept, but put into practice, it just gives the opponent options to throw you out of stun even if you don't hold, or hit you with a mid that you staggered out of, because staggering put you into crouching state. A lot of small things like this make the game something I wouldn't recommend as a serious fighting game.

" The problem I have is that it requires ridiculous precision to not be punished for doing the right thing at times." THIS is partially where DOA's difficulty lie. The game isn't meant to be easy at higher levels. It's only meant to be "easy" at the lower scrub level where everyone mindlessly mashes like a jackass.

Your problem with SE is that you're not fully understanding how DOA's metagame works. Slow throws are meant to beat out SE's. If you think they'll throw, don't SE as much, then crouch or do a hi-crush attack. SE works fine if applied properly.

As far as WUKs go - you get more reward for oki in basically every other fighting game. That is my problem with them. Force techs give you an offensive advantage, not guaranteed 20 or 30% of your opponent's life. Holding WUKs on reaction is possible, I agree, but the animations can be slightly ambiguous with side roll into WUK, or just back teching.

If you're expecting a WUK, there's a good chance of it throwing you off. On top of that, if you do make a read / reaction on a WUK, or wait and whiff punish, you get a little damage and possibly advantage, depending on the character, or you get a tiny bit of damage and a reset. You could even go for a stun, which gives you a lot of potential, but not much guaranteed, for most chars.

You can argue that, and there's truth in it, but I feel like it takes away from the importance of yomi with there being so many different options. Reading something when there are 20 different ways to deal with something is more difficult and not necessarily more rewarding than just sorta tossing something out if it covers a few options.

At the end of the day, it's really all opinion on how certain system mechanics work, how they should work, and whether it's good that they work that way or not. I understand where you're coming from, and although I disagree, you're not wrong.

I disagree with everything @Heikou said..... Untill he brought up the Stagger Escaping.

So far he hasn't explained whats wrong with the mechanic other than the input for it is really stupid and cumbersome and just plain impractical. You can fix all that by giving players a choice in how they want to stagger escape.

Me however...

@Heikou is right this mechanic conflicts not only with the rest of DoA's other mechanics but also with what the Fighting Game community likes to say about the genre. "Its all about Strategy and mind Games"

Is it really....Then what the hell is with all the Option Selects and Guaranteed Setups ? They say its about strategy but they do anything and everything in their power to avoid having to actually strategise. And thats what Stagger Escaping does. Why rack your brain between deciding if your opponent wants to launch you with high or critical burst you with a mid when you can just mash buttons and avoid both.

There are plenty of stuns in this game that are too long to SE followups. There are also stun types you can't SE period and every character has access to at least one.

One last thing...

Arguing about what is or isn't "Competitive" is pointless.

Anything can be competitive.... all it it requires is competitors.... beyond that arguments people make about a specific mechanic being or not being "competitive" is hit and miss.

Its just something I've concluded from hearing people justify mechanics no matter how random or unsporting as competitive.

I know..... and I exclusively play DoA as if my opponent will always be stagger esxaping (which the AI pretty much always does).... this presents a problem for Jacky because he practically only has one attack that gives him enough advantage to land a critical burst..... everything else is one frame shy of fitting a critical burst.

P+KP gives +31 on fastest, P in stun gives +31, and H+K gives +25 on fastest. Idek Jacky but I was able to find these in just a few minutes in the lab

Those are all highs..... P+KP Will bound on counter hit.

In order to land a critical burst without using a high you either need to complete his 6PPP String or use the mid punch from his stance after H+K(4) which is unreliable.

Beyond that his criticwl burst can't be performed without using a high.

I hate Telegraphing my moves like that.