Free Step Dodge

His nakiryu throw nets him some pretty good damage too, especially in areas with ceilings. Overall, he's a solid character. However, his mixup game I feel is not as strong as the others and can get predictable.

She's only really scary imo up close because of her 6T, fast jabs, dragon kick, and her mix up throw options, and that unholdable CB that can't actually be held is annoying. Away from her only I just back up and wait for her to approach so I can whiff punish.

The thing is, Camel. Being up close with Hayate IS one of his strenghts, however it is not the only one, for Hayate to be secret top 3 in the game you need to have great knowledge in 3 different ranges, Hajin is indeed the only player I've seen come close to that, he's also one of the most fundamentally strong players in the community. Coincidence? I think NOT!

And yes, never go full Helena, sir. Never.

Honoka is not secret top tier but she is a contender for top 10, well, when played correctly, again, Hajin's the only player I've seen come close to that, I used to play her too, but nah, I got way too salty about she having a DS 4PPP and JL not having it as well, lol. It is no secret having Honoka next to you is death, even worse than Christie, the issue is closing that gap first.

I also find the fact DB mentions Lei Fang interesting, that character.... Now that's a perfect character right there, I often hear her weakness is the spacing game. Pffft, that's like saying Ayane can't play up close, again, the community's fundamental weakness is what keeps them from using characters at their full potential, Lei Fang falls under that as well.

Honoka's range was purposely implemented like that. She's alright but I don't find her particularly incredible, in fact I find Raidou better than Honoka believe it or not. Honoka might as well be used as a character to start off a journey to learn something about the game and then pick someone else right after. I am being cruel I know, but just and fair.

You know, I can agree with that, he's far better rounded than her, in my opinion. I actually thought he was the best heavy for a while, but nah, Bayman takes that spot free, his issue is different though, his execution is what turns people away from him, he's like a slower Akira in that regard.

A shame, Raidou has so much potential and yet, it will probably all be wasted.

never go full Helena huh... well i meant more like, if im being outclassed in the footsie game (which happens alot 2 me) maybe switching over to a more high pressure, in-your-face-style can help you deal with that, and helena was the first character that came to mind.

but in reality, most characters in this game can be played in this, hell even my main nyo can be played this way, as long as you can land 1pp once you launch 'em, i actually made a character forum post about that, should probably go back and read my own stuff to remind myself lolz

I've said this for about 2 years now, the overall level of the community is LOW. Majority only understand playing basic DOA, some understand how to play much beyond that point. While only select few are actually fundamentally well-rounded or fundamentally strong.

Or at the very least, some just know how to play DOA enough to get by and it's shown at tournament level standards for 1st place. Some of us have gotten very strong since SR's dominance, Kwiggles/Bladez being the best examples, with people like Hoodless, myself and a few others getting close to what's seen as top level DOA skill.

I've tried to explain to people, over and over, exactly why a character like Ayane and soon Hayate, are so strong in DOA5. Especially Last Round. The tools these characters have are tools majority in the roster simply do not have but they're fine anyway because of the way the game works.

Some characters are strong at just one thing, or well-rounded enough to be good. Or good at a few things. However some characters like these two, including Akira/Leifang, have things that put them beyond everyone else. Which is why they're all difficult to perform well with at the highest level.

Earlier statements about Hayate players playing Hayate the way they do is spot on. They play in a way that severely limits the character's tools and play potential. Hayate can play at virtually any range on the screen.

He is also the only character in the game that has a safe teleport mix up at any range with multiple moves, that allow him to runaway (think Nash's V-Trigger in SFV).

He has a great neutral strike speed, lots of moves with +3 GBs, wind dash forward and backward are just ridiculous at controlling space, getting away, and moving forward with multiple follow ups (6P+K dash). He's strong on any stage, and dangerous underneath ceilings.

His damage is good/great, his knockbacks from juggles give him a strong run up mix up vs tech roll/non-tech roll. 3H+K gives him crazy pressure and utility that people ignore. And his 4P is just absurdly strong.

I am playing Hayate as a sub because I can play the gameplan I want with him. And honestly, I don't know why I waited so long to play him, he compliments my Ayane style/pressure/footsies well.

I've also said for awhile that Raidou is a much better character than Honoka. Just, again, both of these character scream "you MUST be fundamentally solid to get anywhere with me". Reason why you don't see other top players using them is because they aren't. I don't use them because I prefer more mobility because that's part of my playstyle.

As for Hayate's mix up, it's not predictable, that's the player's fault. Hayate hits you, and you're basically put into the same situations Ayane forces you into. Which is guessing at 50/50s because his stun launch is decent and he has good string launch options. CH PPP forces a 50/50 scenario, which is why that string is good.