3-Point Hold v. 4-Point Hold

[Relius Starkiller]

You guys would hate actual sports, because very little is guaranteed.

DOA is fine the way it is, low the counter window, adjust the damage and keep those 4 point holds though - thats money.

 

[Rikuto]

You guys would hate actual sports, because very little is guaranteed.

DOA is fine the way it is, keep those 4 point holds though - thats money.

When you put the puck in the net, you're guaranteed to score. The ref doesn't come along and offer the goalie the opportunity to rock paper scissors you for the points on five times the original value. And he certainly doesn't let the goalie do that up to five times or until you lose.

 

[Arnell Long]

You guys would hate actual sports, because very little is guaranteed.

DOA is fine the way it is, low the counter window, adjust the damage and keep those 4 point holds though - thats money.

Fighting "Sports"
UFC, Boxing, Kick Boxing, etc...the lesser fighter for that match is going to get their ass kicked...period!

And Rikuto

Amen bro......

 

[Allan Paris]

When you put the puck in the net, you're guaranteed to score. The ref doesn't come along and offer the goalie the opportunity to rock paper scissors you for the points on five times the original value. And he certainly doesn't let the goalie do that up to five times or until you lose.

lol, this is exactly what that game is.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

When you put the puck in the net, you're guaranteed to score. The ref doesn't come along and offer the goalie the opportunity to rock paper scissors you for the points.

"Ref the goalie shouldn't be able to block with his feet, hands, stick AND TORSO!"

When I pop you up in the air you're guaranteed to eat the max combo for that height, everything else up to that point is a guess.

IF Derrick Rose is able to SLIP through two defenders his shot MIGHT go.

IF Maurice Jones Drew tucks the ball on the way through the pile he MAY not get it stripped by Ray Lewis.

Sports, every athletic competition, mental or physical is about skill and luck. What you think Ryan Howard isn't trying to slam the ball into the stands everytime?

Look at MMA, everyone loves that sport and anyone can beat anybody at anytime.

Thats what I like about DOA. I know I'm better than say a Calibur Bladez but the guy can pull one over on me every once in a while. . .but we still know who the better man is.

Julius Rage by the way is the better man than Calibur Bladez.

Fighting "Sports"
UFC, Boxing, Kick Boxing, etc...the lesser fighter for that match is going to get their ass kicked...period!

And Rikuto

Amen bro......

John Fitch got K/O'ed by Johnny Hendricks, Matt Serra dummied GSP, Cheal Sonnen caught Anderson Silva on a bad night, Buster Douglas beat up Tyson, Brock Lesnar lost to Frank Mir, Cotto got cheated by Maragrito. . .


Should I keep going? In fighting the better man doesn't always win.

Sid the Kid "REF, I'M ON THE ATTACK! I SHOULD HAVE THE ADVANTAGE! WHY ARE ALL THESE GUYS FOCUSED ON STOPPING ME!? AND THAT GOALIE JUST LAID DOWN IN FRONT OF THE NET! HES GOT TOO MANY OPTIONS!"

Ref "Shut the fuck up, you knew the rules asswipe."

 

[Arnell Long]

A point I can make is that in a fight. Lets say I throw a hook and the person ducks it and jabs me in the face and I get dazed, well, I could react to that by countering his attack or blocking it. So if you think about, DOA makes a bit of since revolving around a real fight. But since DOA is a fighting "videogame", I feel different on the matter in regards of competition of a game that doesn't grant the player true "advantages" unless their in the air.

John Fitch got K/O'ed by Johnny Hendricks, Matt Serra dummied GSP, Cheal Sonnen caught Anderson Silva on a bad night, Buster Douglas beat up Tyson, Brock Lesnar lost to Frank Mir, Cotto got cheated by Maragrito. . .


Should I keep going? In fighting the better man doesn't always win.

"The better man for that match wins the fight as I stated above."

"I look at plenty UFC all the way from UFC 25 to UFC 144 so I know the drill. But at the end of the day, who's ever on their A game is going to win for the most part."

But yea, in a fighter videogame, no luck should be involved, shit rarely happens in other fighters. It's most present in DOA.

To be honest, DOA is going to stay as it is with some tweaks which I don't have a problem with compared to other folks. Why? Because for one, I been a Fan since I first played it so no extensive bitching from me, and secondly for the most part the Series was pretty much Rock, Paper, Scissors from the get go.

Excuse the Double Post folks.

 

[Rikuto]

"Ref the goalie shouldn't be able to block with his feet, hands, stick AND TORSO!"

When I pop you up in the air you're guaranteed to eat the max combo for that height, everything else up to that point is a guess.

IF Derrick Rose is able to SLIP through two defenders his shot MIGHT go.

IF Maurice Jones Drew tucks the ball on the way through the pile he MAY not get it stripped by Ray Lewis.

Sports, every athletic competition, mental or physical is about skill and luck. What you think Ryan Howard isn't trying to slam the ball into the stands everytime?

Look at MMA, everyone loves that sport and anyone can beat anybody at anytime.

Thats what I like about DOA. I know I'm better than say a Calibur Bladez but the guy can pull one over on me every once in a while. . .but we still know who the better man is.

Julius Rage by the way is the better man than Calibur Bladez.

Here is the problem.

At mid to long range, there are more factors than luck involved depending on the character. Certain characters can hit from longer ranges and use safe options that are absolutely non-reliant on luck. The only way for the shorter range character to beat him may be to brave those options with skillful spacing and reaction, or just muscle his way in slowly, perhaps sacrificing guard strength to do so. Once he's inside, yes then there is a good amount of guessing going on, but those guesses would be more in favor of the short range fighter getting a favorable outcome and bigger damage overall if he succeeds. In some cases, there may not be any way to reflect damage back to the short range person once he is inside unless you simply wait for him to use something unsafe, or use a limited resource like meter to expend your emergency close-range options.

Point is, he had to make intelligent decisions and react to what was going on correctly and break the spacing barrier to even get inside safely.

Guessing has to favor certain people in certain situations more to make a fighting game legit.

In sports, everything is even but the players themselves. Their physical training and teamwork is what is putting them in the situation to make a guess that will benefit their own team more than the opposition. This is what truly decides the match, not the luck itself.

"If I miss this shot, the goalie gets my puck, and he might turn this around. But at least he didn't score, and that kept the shot in my favor. Furthermore, im a faster shot since I trained more and he's a slower goalie, so this increases my chances."

... but you don't get that barrier in DOA. In DOA, if the goalie stops your puck, he keeps it and takes your points at the same time.

Sid the Kid "REF, I'M ON THE ATTACK! I SHOULD HAVE THE ADVANTAGE! WHY ARE ALL THESE GUYS FOCUSED ON STOPPING ME!? AND THAT GOALIE JUST LAID DOWN IN FRONT OF THE NET! HES GOT TOO MANY OPTIONS!"

Ref "Shut the fuck up, you knew the rules asswipe."

If you had trained with your team correctly, they would be watching your back. If you had trained your shot correctly, you would pop it right over the goalie. That hasn't got much of anything to do with luck, simply a lack of preparation.

 

[Allan Paris]

"When I pop you up in the air you're guaranteed to eat the max combo for that height, everything else up to that point is a guess.

Yeah it shouldn't be, you are forced to play a triangle system with no ways around it. It also doesn't bother you that if you do get held which is going to happen; the damage for the max combo after the launch you are going for is minor to the damage you are going to eat from that hold?

"IF Derrick Rose is able to SLIP through two defenders his shot MIGHT go. Sports, every athletic competition, mental or physical is about skill and luck. What you think Ryan Howard isn't trying to slam the ball into the stands everytime?

Every time D. Rose steps off the dribble or "SLIPS" through/past anybody, he's scoring. There's no "MIGHT" about that. That bucket is guartaneed if he gets in the paint.

You can't really use a sport in this perspective because there are a lot of players that are pure skill with no luck invovled.

"Thats what I like about DOA. I know I'm better than say a Calibur Bladez but the guy can pull one over on me every once in a while. . .but we still know who the better man is. Julius Rage by the way is the better man than Calibur Bladez.

Now, if you know more than him and can play better, so you say. It sits well with you that he can "pull one over on you once in awhile"?

 

[Rikuto]

Wouldn't sit well with me, thats for sure. If I'm way better than someone, I should be winning very convincingly in a solid game all the time. The only times I feel its alright to justify losses against an inferior player is if my mindset is messed up for some reason, either through rust or playing too much and getting tired.

One option is to play more, the other is to take a break. Both consistently fix the problem.


In DOA.... there is no fixing that problem. Just russian roulette.

 

[Allan Paris]

Well after debating with a few players I thought knew better, they apparaently don't want a soild game. They recognize somethings need to be "tweaked" but a full change on something to make the game solid, is blasphemy.

 

[Rikuto]

Well after debating with a few players I thought knew better, they apparaently don't want a soild game. They recognize somethings need to be "tweaked" but a full change on something to make the game solid, is blasphemy.

So basically you're running into the same problem I did when I told people they needed to remove holds from stun. It's popular for people to think of themselves as skilled, but take away that crutch and suddenly things get really scary for them.

I swear most DOA players don't know anything about how a fighting games work outside of stun. They just assume all of the spacing, baiting, and setting up environmental/frame traps before that is luck.

And who could blame them! DOA 4 had probably the shittiest movement of any fighting game I've ever touched! It's like the ground stuck to your boots. What a horrible game to train new players in. It doesn't even give you good fundamentals to work with.

 

[Allan Paris]

So basically you're running into the same problem I did when I told people they needed to remove holds from stun. It's popular for people to think of themselves as skilled, but take away that crutch and suddenly things get really scary for them.

I swear most DOA players don't know anything about how a fighting games work outside of stun. They just assume all of the spacing, baiting, and setting up environmental/frame traps before that is luck.

And who could blame them! DOA 4 had probably the shittiest movement of any fighting game I've ever touched! It's like the ground stuck to your boots. What a horrible game to train new players in. It doesn't even give you good fundamentals to work with.

I've been running into the problem for the past few years. Once I learned what the hell I was playing, I tried to see if others saw it too. Lets just say that crutch is overly loved and defended even if their arguments are asinine.

Yup, playing DOA4 and not knowing whats really going on can highly distort the view on what's good and bad. I've been helping and I have helped a long list, countless of players, and in the end I can't tell them anything worth while to be truly good. Now I laugh when I get asked questions on what advice I can give them in certain situations.

 

[ErickBello]

And who could blame them! DOA 4 had probably the shittiest movement of any fighting game I've ever touched! It's like the ground stuck to your boots. What a horrible game to train new players in. It doesn't even give you good fundamentals to work with.

+1000000000000000000000000
Here in DR we train with the DOA 3.1 ( And that's the one who we play the most ) but when we made the transition to DOA 4, anybody knew how to adjust to the new moves and the mechanics.

But with the theme of the 3Point Hold v. 4Point Hold...
4-Point hole I CHOOSE YOU
The answer it's pretty obvious o_o

 

[grap3fruitman]

Can I pose this question again? You people that are for four-point holds, what's wrong with six-point?

 

[Allan Paris]

Can I pose this question again? You people that are for four-point holds, what's wrong with six-point?

Absolutley nothing, at least on my behalf. I welcome that idea if it ever comes up to be brought back into the game.

 

[ErickBello]

Can I pose this question again? You people that are for four-point holds, what's wrong with six-point?

Six Point?
It could be a let down for the typical Hold Spammer,
ME GUSTA.

 

[Keylay]

Can I pose this question again? You people that are for four-point holds, what's wrong with six-point?

I actually want 6-point holds.

 

[Rikuto]

Seriously, I needed you guys en masse like four months ago just attacking team ninja's twitter. We got drowned out by cry babies who don't even play the game telling us that we were horrible selfish people.

 

[Allan Paris]

lol, really that's sad, well I don't keep up with twitter at all. If it wasn't for the TN twitter feed on the homepage I still would be in the dark on twitter. I am coming around to the idea of getting on there but, I don't know.

 

[Blam]

Just make the holds require very strict timing, severely reduce or completely eliminate the damage they do(maybe make them a parry with followups you must do on your own), put in more stuns from different moves that disallow countering and create some moves that can flat out not get countered, maybe even add a meter system. Problem solved.