Release 6++ Gameplay Overhaul - update 5.1

[Rev_an]

How to get "Break Gauge" back?
"S" button is disabled

the inputs for fatal rush, break hold, and breakblow are disabled in the moveset data and removing that stuff is the point of all this. If you're trying to use the hitbox viewer with the vanilla gameplay most people are probably better off running 6-- (uninstall 6++).bat and downloading the hitbox viewer from alex's thread.

 

[Rev_an]

getting ahead of ourselves a bit because somebody couldn't wait to tweet about it, I'll post about the interpretation of critical burst i've managed to cobble together. this is something i had thought about in a "what if" sort of way years ago but some recent public discourse about 6 being worse than 5 may have motivated taking another look into it.

This is barely a prototype and has some details and baggage that need to be worked out before it's ready for a playtest. I want to do some stage stuff and clean up the bt hits a bit before this would make public, and a change like this is the kind of thing i'd have in mind for arbitrarily changing the number to 6.0.

The idea is to have an exactly full stun (26/26 normal hit, 32/32 counter hit, 39/39 hi counter, and you're on your own with the extra 75% revision on environment stuns or whatever goes on if you find a way to do multiple fatal stuns) make the opponent unable to hold. this is not directly possible because i'm not able to program game logic like that, so instead it hijacks the system that overrides stuns into something else when you do a critical reversal. strive-style source leak when?

by setting a strike to do 2 damage and apply the CB stun it does 1 damage when scaled by the damage revision and thus only triggers a critical reversal if stun is already exactly full. unused animations are hard to come by but manipulating the breakblow attack anims seems to give reasonable frames.

Spoiler: Perfect Critical

http://imgur.com/DeHBhCE

i hate embeds

the purpose of this new move is to make a manual version of the logic check i can't program I think it makes sense to have it only be a "i think the stun is full and i'm plus enough" button and minimally interact with the rest of gameplay. if it could do 0 damage and not count against the combo limit that would be better, but that's the minimum requirement i can find.

to that end it can't be held, it won't hit (or be guarded) at all unless they're stunned, and if you're bad and try to do it without perfectly filling the critical threshold you are punished for your hubris. -13 on hit is negotiable, although that number is tied to the recovery frames and making it -30 like i wanted starts interfering with your ability to convert on the perfect stun. The "time up" anim on whiff might be a bit much but if you mess up on the stun route this badly it means you didn't lab and you can eat a free hit for it. 16 startup could also be changed but i don't want it to work from jabs or shallow stuns like pp6k or 2h+k and on the other end it shouldn't be so restricted that you have to always do a +27 gut stun.

[i'm not reuploading, it's a non-critical mid hit and unsafe on-hit if you're wrong about the stun amount]

Spoiler: whiff punish

http://imgur.com/fTJIJzV

imgur pls

note also here that the jabs are only +15 or so, i had made a list of stun routes for ayane years ago and all the ones that ended in jab or pp feel like they'd be bad gameplay patterns. this is from dimensions, which had some progressive stuns like the more familiar progressive launch heights with the critical levels. I'm interested in these short jabs regardless of whether perfect criticals pan out so those might sneak into a 5.x update so we can try it without getting distracted by the PC.

and finally a moment to mourn the opportunity for an excellent april fools joke next year about putting breakblow back in.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

@Rev_an just saying,

here's a download from a discord message

Discord no longer allows hotlinking on external sites like that, for example your URL has its expiration timestamp set to 682476af which translates to 14 May 2025 10:55:43

i hate embeds

same

 

[Rev_an]

burst is dead in the water, the four moves that have the magic to do different things in neutral and stun induce a bug where strings can skip moves and the buffer is much tighter sometimes for no discernable reason.

can't really make the burst move playable or not ugly in neutral and if there was a known way to make an input limited to "opponent stunned" i would've been trying this mechanic two years ago. (there are checks for on-hit, airborne, and downed but not stun afaik)

the faint hope for this would involve finding every possible stun route and coding on-hit followups for each move that could be last in a route, and that sounds miserable.

 

[Rev_an]

in a "call an amulance... but not for me" moment, the buffer bug is turning out to be not difficult to avoid dead input and some of the buffer skips (BS) are beneficial. it's not nearly as flexible as FSDC (search the 5lr forum if you don't know what that is) but it's way easier to do, at the cost of having to be more judicious with some string inputs. This does not appear to occur if you memory edit 5LR into the conditions that cause it in 6.

the downside to the bug is that if you mash out e.g. honoka 3ppp too fast it can just give you 3pp and stop dead, but it's also possible to do it so you skip 3pp and get 3p -> 3ppp. if you wait until 3pp is started to press the third p the string behaves normally.

as far as I can tell so far the "rules" are:
bug doesn't happen unless you've pressed h+p+k (S) and gotten one of the vestigial tag moves that are the hacked up way the perfect threshold works.
the bug is reset by rounds ending but not by resetting training mode without leaving
you have to start the string by buffering the first move of it out of something else. launcher, 6ph, whiffing a throw/hold, etc.
you have to buffer the input of the move you skip and the move after it before the skipped move starts, generally the frame after the active frames (see frame timings spoiler).
in 5-input strings we've seen skips of move 2,3, or 4 but i don't think we've seen a double skip either in a row or 2 and 4, unsure if those are possible. dunno what eliot is like.

Spoiler: clips of some BS cancels

i have a UI mod that delets the break hold text, didn't realize it was the same opcode as the lights down. suppose "optional extras" just got more important to finish

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1925734008601575624

i'm using () for noting skipped moves here, i know some people use that for charging but they should use _ instead anyway.
pp(p)k means pppk skipped the third punch, and so on.
if you hate yourself several of these are in the twitter embed and you can verify the frame-by frame.

Spoiler: frame timings of some BS cancels

ayane pp(p)k
345 - recovery frame 53/57 - P press
349 - null/"idle" frame
352 - jab startup frame 2 - 2nd P press
360 - jab startup frame 10 - 3rd P press
369 - PP startup frame 7 - k press

------
hayabusa pp(k)kk
220 - recovery frame 18/25 - P press
227 - null frame
229 - jab startup frame 1 - 2nd P press
240 - jab 2nd active frame but ID says PP - 1st K press
250 - pp 2nd active frame (ID still says PP) -2nd K
252 - id changes to ppkk

----
ayane bt pp6(k)kk
075 - recovery frame 1/25 - P press, likely extraneous
095 - recovery frame 21/25 - 2nd P press
099 - null frame
103 - jab startup frame 3 - 3rd P press
107 - jab startup frame 7 - 6 i assume held
114 - jab recovery frame 1 (ID says pp) - first K
121 - PP startup frame 8 - second K press
124 - bt pp6kk starts instead of bt pp6k
144 - recovery frame 5 third K press but that's just for the vanilla string

------
ayane p(p)pk
051 - recovery frame 2/25 first P
059 - recovery frame 10/25 second P
068 - recovery frame 19/25 3rd P (probably the real one)
075 - null frame
076 - move details still for previous move, ID says jab - 4th P
084 - jab startup frame 8, 5th P
089 - ppp starts instead of pp

if you're interested in labbing nonsense that might get scrapped because it ruins neutral, DM me here or on discord. i have to clean up some stuff not related to the buffer skips that should be ready early next week.

here's a match video: https://www.mediafire.com/file/2uqxfns4s29shab/dev_build_limit_bursts_live_match.mp4/file
about 30 seconds in it looks like hyolyns does a skip 6pp(p)p, later on there's at least one apparent buffer failure, and there's a couple perfect critical limits or whatever we end up calling the ersatz cb system.

 

[Rev_an]

Steam Community :: Group :: DOA6++ Group

Group for people to get games in the community-made gameplay mod, DOA6++! Welcome + Download Instructions post: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/DOA6PlusPlus/announcements/detail/527598784391152776

steamcommunity.com

BeeLy1011 was kind enough to make a steam group, i figure that's probably a convenient way to find matches if a bunch of us join rather than being scattered in a bunch of discords and whatnot.

 

[KasumiLover]

in a "call an amulance... but not for me" moment, the buffer bug is turning out to be not difficult to avoid dead input and some of the buffer skips (BS) are beneficial. it's not nearly as flexible as FSDC (search the 5lr forum if you don't know what that is) but it's way easier to do, at the cost of having to be more judicious with some string inputs. This does not appear to occur if you memory edit 5LR into the conditions that cause it in 6.

the downside to the bug is that if you mash out e.g. honoka 3ppp too fast it can just give you 3pp and stop dead, but it's also possible to do it so you skip 3pp and get 3p -> 3ppp. if you wait until 3pp is started to press the third p the string behaves normally.

as far as I can tell so far the "rules" are:
bug doesn't happen unless you've pressed h+p+k (S) and gotten one of the vestigial tag moves that are the hacked up way the perfect threshold works.
the bug is reset by rounds ending but not by resetting training mode without leaving
you have to start the string by buffering the first move of it out of something else. launcher, 6ph, whiffing a throw/hold, etc.
you have to buffer the input of the move you skip and the move after it before the skipped move starts, generally the frame after the active frames (see frame timings spoiler).
in 5-input strings we've seen skips of move 2,3, or 4 but i don't think we've seen a double skip either in a row or 2 and 4, unsure if those are possible. dunno what eliot is like.

Spoiler: clips of some BS cancels

i have a UI mod that delets the break hold text, didn't realize it was the same opcode as the lights down. suppose "optional extras" just got more important to finish

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1925734008601575624

i'm using () for noting skipped moves here, i know some people use that for charging but they should use _ instead anyway.
pp(p)k means pppk skipped the third punch, and so on.
if you hate yourself several of these are in the twitter embed and you can verify the frame-by frame.

Spoiler: frame timings of some BS cancels

ayane pp(p)k
345 - recovery frame 53/57 - P press
349 - null/"idle" frame
352 - jab startup frame 2 - 2nd P press
360 - jab startup frame 10 - 3rd P press
369 - PP startup frame 7 - k press

------
hayabusa pp(k)kk
220 - recovery frame 18/25 - P press
227 - null frame
229 - jab startup frame 1 - 2nd P press
240 - jab 2nd active frame but ID says PP - 1st K press
250 - pp 2nd active frame (ID still says PP) -2nd K
252 - id changes to ppkk

----
ayane bt pp6(k)kk
075 - recovery frame 1/25 - P press, likely extraneous
095 - recovery frame 21/25 - 2nd P press
099 - null frame
103 - jab startup frame 3 - 3rd P press
107 - jab startup frame 7 - 6 i assume held
114 - jab recovery frame 1 (ID says pp) - first K
121 - PP startup frame 8 - second K press
124 - bt pp6kk starts instead of bt pp6k
144 - recovery frame 5 third K press but that's just for the vanilla string

------
ayane p(p)pk
051 - recovery frame 2/25 first P
059 - recovery frame 10/25 second P
068 - recovery frame 19/25 3rd P (probably the real one)
075 - null frame
076 - move details still for previous move, ID says jab - 4th P
084 - jab startup frame 8, 5th P
089 - ppp starts instead of pp

if you're interested in labbing nonsense that might get scrapped because it ruins neutral, DM me here or on discord. i have to clean up some stuff not related to the buffer skips that should be ready early next week.

here's a match video: https://www.mediafire.com/file/2uqxfns4s29shab/dev_build_limit_bursts_live_match.mp4/file
about 30 seconds in it looks like hyolyns does a skip 6pp(p)p, later on there's at least one apparent buffer failure, and there's a couple perfect critical limits or whatever we end up calling the ersatz cb system.

Hey, can you send me the latest ++ mod that has the CB thing and the bug cancel?? Id love to test it for Kasumi and my other mains!! And also do you have the latest patch notes for it??

 

[Rev_an]

Hey, can you send me the latest ++ mod that has the CB thing and the bug cancel?? Id love to test it for Kasumi and my other mains!! And also do you have the latest patch notes for it??

nah there were never notes for it. i burned 3 months on it and don't know how to make theCB stun not clip out of bounds near walls. You can look for the "exactly fill the stun threshold" routes without the stun or the hacky burst move if you want, i have a non-exhaustive list of them for kasumi:

Spoiler: kasumi NH 26/26 stun routes

p, 6p, pk
p, 6p, 66p
p, 6p, 3k
p, 6pk
p, 4p, pk
p, 4p, 66p
p, 4p, 3k
p, 3p, 4h+k
p, k, 4h+k
p, kk, 2k
p, 2k, ppp
p, 2k, pp6p
p, 2k, 1p, p, 2k
p, 2k, 1p, k
p, 2k, 1pp
p, 2k, kk
p, 2k, 6p+k, 8p
p, 3k, 6p
p, 3k, 4p
p, 3k, 66k
p, 3k, 6p+k
p, p+k, 4h+k

pp, ppp
pp, pp6p
pp, kk
ppp, p, 2k
ppp, 3p
ppp, k
ppp, p+k
pp6p, p, 2k
pp6p, 3p
pp6p, k
pp6p, p+k
p6p, 4h+k

pk, p, 6p
pk, p, 4p
pk, 6p, 2k
pk, 4p, 2k
pk, 2k, 6p
pk, 2k, 4p
pk, 2k, 66k
pk, 2k, 6p+k
pk, 66k, 2k
pk, 6p+k, 2k

6p, p, 3k
6p, pk, 2k
6p, 3p, 8p
6p, 66p, 2k
6p, k, 8p
6p, 2k, pk
6p, 2k, 66p
6p, 2k, 3k
6p, 3k, 2k
6p, p+k, 8p

6pk, 2k

4p, p, 3k
4p, pk, 2k
4p, 3p, 8p
4p, 66p, 2k
4p, k, 8p
4p, 2k, pk
4p, 2k, 66p
4p, 2k, 3k
4p, 3k, 2k
4p, p+k, 8p

8p, p, 6p, 2k
8p, p, 4p, 2k
8p, p, 2k, 6p
8p, p, 2k, 4p
8p, p, 2k, 66k
8p, p, 2k, 6p+k
8p, pp, 6p
8p, pp, 4p
8p, pk, 8p
8p, 6p, p, 2k
8p, 6p, 3p
8p, 6p, k
8p, 6p, p+k
8p, 4p, p, 2k
8p, 4p, 3p
8p, 4p, k
8p, 4p, p+k
8p, 3p, 6p
8p, 3p, 4p
8p, 3p, 66k
8p, 3p, 6p+k
8p, k, 6p
8p, k, 4p
8p, k, 66k
8p, k, 6p+k
8p, 2k, p, 6p
8p, 2k, p, 4p
8p, 2k, 6p, 2k
8p, 2k, 4p, 2k
8p, 2k, 66k, 2k
8p, 2k, 6p+k, 2k
8p, 66k, p, 2k
8p, 66k, 3p
8p, 66k, k
8p, 66k, p+k
8p, p+k, 6p
8p, p+k, 4p
8p, p+k, 66k
8p, p+k, 6p+k
8p, p+k 6, 6p
8p, p+k 6, 4p
8p, 6p+k, p, 2k
8p, 6p+k, 3p
8p, 6p+k, k
8p, 6p+k, p+k
8p, 6p+K k

3p, ppp
3p, pp6p
3p, 8p, 6p
3p, 8p, 4p
3p, 8p, 66k
3p, 8p, 6p+k
3p, 1p, p, 2k
3p, 1p, k
3p, 1pp
3p, kk
3p, 6p+k, 8p
3p, 6h+k
3p, 4h+k, 2k

1p, p, 3p, 2k
1p, p, k, 2k
1p, p, 2k, p, 2k
1p, p, 2k, 3p
1p, p, 2k, k
1p, p, 2k, p+k
1p, pp, p, 2k
1p, pp, 3p
1p, pp, k
1p, p6p, 2k
1p, k, p, 2k
1p, k, 3p
1p, k, p+k
1pp, p, 2k
1pp, 3p
1pp, k
1pp, p+k

66p, p, 6p
66p, p, 4p
66p, 6p, 2k
66p, 4p, 2k
66p, 2k, 6p
66p, 2k, 4p
66p, 2k, 66k
66p, 2k, 6p+k
66p, 66k, 2k
66p, 6p+k, 2k

k, ppp
k, pp6p
k, 8p, 6p
k, 8p, 4p
k, 8p, 66k
k, 8p, 6p+k
k, 1p, p, 2k
k, 1p, k
k, 1pp
k, 6p+k, 8p
k, 6h+k
k, 4h+k, 2k
kk, p, 2k
kk, 3p
kk, k
kk, p+k
2k, p, kk
2k, ppp, 2k
2k, pp6p, 2k
2k, pk, 6p
2k, pk, 4p
2k, pk, 66k
2k, pk, 6p+k
2k, 6p, pk
2k, 6p, 66p
2k, 6p, 3k
2k, 6pk
2k, 4p, pk
2k, 4p, 66p
2k, 4p, 3k
2k, 3p, 4h+k
2k, 1p, p, 3p
2k, 1p, p, k
2k, 1p, p6p
2k, 1p, k, 2k
2k, 1pp, 2k
2k, 66p, 6p
2k, 66p, 4p
2k, 66p, 66k
2k, 66p, 6p+k
2k, k, 4h+k
2k, kk, 2k
2k, 3k, 6p
2k, 3k, 4p
2k, 3k, 66k
2k, 3k, 6p+k
2k, 66k, pk
2k, 66k, 66p
2k, 66k, 3k
2k, p+k, 4h+k
2k, 6p+k, pk
2k, 6p+k, 8p, 2k
2k, 6p+k, 66p
2k, 6p+k, 3k

3k, 6p, 2k
3k, 4p, 2k
3k, 2k, 6p
3k, 2k, 4p
3k, 2k, 66k
3k, 2k, 6p+k
3k, 66k, 2k
3k, 6p+k, 2k

66k, p, 3k
66k, pk, 2k
66k, 3p, 8p
66k, 66p, 2k
66k, k, 8p
66k, 2k, pk
66k, 2k, 66p
66k, 2k, 3k
66k, 3k, 2k
66k, p+k, 8p

p+k, ppp
p+k, pp6p
p+k, 8p, 6p
p+k, 8p, 4p
p+k, 8p, 66k
p+k, 8p, 6p+k
p+k, 1p, p, 2k
p+k, 1p, k
p+k, 1pp
p+k, kk
p+k, 6p+k, 8p
p+k, 6h+k
p+k, 4h+k, 2k
p+k 6, ppp
p+k 6, pp6p
p+k 6, kk

6p+k, p, 3k
6p+k, pk, 2k
6p+k, 8p, p, 2k
6p+k, 8p, 3p
6p+k, 8p, k
6p+k, 8p, p+k
6p+k, 3p, 8p
6p+k, 66p, 2k
6p+k, k, 8p
6p+k, 2k, pk
6p+k, 2k, 66p
6p+k, 2k, 3k
6p+k, 3k, 2k
6p+k, p+k, 8p
6p+K k, 8p

h+k, 46p

6h+k, p, 2k
6h+k, 3p
6h+k, k
6h+k, p+k

4h+k, 3p, 2k
4h+k, 1p, 6p
4h+k, 1p, 4p
4h+k, 2k, p, 2k
4h+k, 2k, 3p
4h+k, 2k, k
4h+k, 2k, p+k
4h+k, p+k, 2k

not including ones that start with a string, e.g. kk 5pp 5k is 26/26 but i didn't write code to find kk starts, and of course rounding makes some of those not work on counter or hi-counter, and some ones that don't work on NH might work on counter, etc. Since breakhold doesn't exist it's not totally useless to know these routes for max damage outside of corner cases like 2-in-1 launchers like ayane 4p+k.

idk if CB is salvageable, maybe i can change enough properties on the stun anim or swap it to a different faint stun but that's all on the back burner for several months. i should probably get 5.2 out before win10 end of life so we don't have to wait on me getting a new pc...

 

[Alfy]

Hi all,

Been looking at this mod for a while now and decided to give it a try. Alas, it does not work on my machine for some reason, the game just won't start after I copy the files (but uninstalling with the appropriate .bat file works like a charm, so no harm done). A couple of questions:

- What is the mod compatibility? I'm assuming it's 1.22, but wanted to check.
- Is there an earlier version that just removes the meter and nothing else that can still be downloaded?

Thanks in advance!