About morons online

[Prince Adon]

I am not gonna search for your post to show you but i remember you always being very rude. I am one of the dudes who actually like this game and i tried to show to people who cal this game random and say that "it requires no skill to play this game" etc. that the game is not random(only different) using math(which tells always the truth btw) and that it does require skill to play this game. I'm not the one hating on the game and trying to bring it down i take DOA as it is and i like the game. I totally agree with you when you say that when people don't like the game and keep complaining about it that they should simply just stop playing this game(whom im not one of btw) . Also while doing so i have always been polite to people and always considered there views and listened to what they where saying before replying to them. I just got annoyed by the fact that people would team up to diss someone just because they don't agree with their opinion and call them names and such.

Maybe you misunderstood my post because I never call people names. I also never group with people. I only state how I feel because it's how I feel and don't go by what anyone else feel. The only debate I remember us having is in the online vs offline thread. I don't ever remember calling you a name.

 

[HiguraShiki]

I am not gonna search for your post to show you but i remember you always being very rude. I am one of the dudes who actually like this game and i tried to show to people who cal this game random and say that "it requires no skill to play this game" etc. that the game is not random(only different) using math(which tells always the truth btw) and that it does require skill to play this game. I'm not the one hating on the game and trying to bring it down i take DOA as it is and i like the game. I totally agree with you when you say that when people don't like the game and keep complaining about it that they should simply just stop playing this game(whom im not one of btw) . Also while doing so i have always been polite to people and always considered there views and listened to what they where saying before replying to them. I just got annoyed by the fact that people would team up to diss someone just because they don't agree with their opinion and call them names and such.

1) We showed you Rikuto's post that shows why DOA is random using math.
2) We didn't say DOA takes no skill. We said holding out of stun and the entire stun system in general causes the game to become random because you have to consistantly guess. In games such as virtual fighter, there is no stun. Granted there are some moves in which you have to struggle to escape, but they are easily avoidable.

3) Ganging up on people? No one is ganging up on anyone. Most of us have been trying to tell one person for the past few months why guaranteed damage is not "cheap", does not = a "free win" and does not require less work and he continues to rant about the same crap every time. No one is ganging up on him, they are all each giving their takes on it and as you can see, no one likes the ranting he always does. You expect everyone not to say anything to him?

 

[Mailifang]

To put it quite simple Higura kun "Haterz gon Hate". If they piss you off with their delusions of grandeur then you allowed them to piss you off.Most FGC competitive game forums are biased to begin with.The FGC as a culture has indoctrinated itself with so much BS that the FGC wants to consider itself to be like athletes playing a sport. Yet lack the maturity to be professionals like professional athletes are. No matter how seriously we take playing these games,we still treat these games as games.

 

[HiguraShiki]

To put it quite simple Higura kun "Haterz gon Hate". If they piss you off with their delusions of grandeur then you allowed them to piss you off.Most FGC competitive game forums are biased to begin with.The FGC as a culture has indoctrinated itself with so much BS that the FGC wants to consider itself to be like athletes playing a sport. Yet lack the maturity to be professionals like professional athletes are. No matter how seriously we take playing these games,we still treat these games as games.

Well, I'm hoping these morons are just doing it on purpose to piss people off. If they are serious, I really just cannot believe my eyes. I dono about the treat the game as a game part. Sports is, in the end still a game. If you take any game seriously, it just shows you care.

 

[Jefffcore]

I am not gonna search for your post to show you but i remember you always being very rude. I am one of the dudes who actually like this game and i tried to show to people who cal this game random and say that "it requires no skill to play this game" etc. that the game is not random(only different) using math(which tells always the truth btw) and that it does require skill to play this game. I'm not the one hating on the game and trying to bring it down i take DOA as it is and i like the game. I totally agree with you when you say that when people don't like the game and keep complaining about it that they should simply just stop playing this game(whom im not one of btw) . Also while doing so i have always been polite to people and always considered there views and listened to what they where saying before replying to them. I just got annoyed by the fact that people would team up to diss someone just because they don't agree with their opinion and call them names and such.

Your math didn't prove anything though. The fact that there are odds means it's random.

 

[Sam Sultan]

Disrespectful? Do you READ some of these morons posts?

Oh yea guys we should haz holds in da air cauz I hate juggles cause I say they are unfair.

Oh you suck, I beat you 10 times online and I am an S+. I'm the best Rig player in the game!

Juggles and spam are unfair! I play in a much more skillful way which gives me wins. I just stand around and hold all the time and poke out of stuns because going for guaranteed damage is unfair and shows you cannot work for a win.

I'm the best Zack ever in DOA! Look at me!

We are calling these people noobs and scrubs only when they consistantly REFUSE to listen to all our millions and millions of posts describing why they are wrong. Actually, not even everyone says that. Most of the people here say that only scrubs really complain about that stuff, not directly calling the person a scrub. Though to be honest with you, most of the people who post like the examples I gave you are seriously just scrubs. There is no other word for it.

Actually, why is there even an argument? All these guys apparently aren't great players, so why are they talking as if they know the entire game and trying to call people who already know the game wrong? Is it because they honestly think they are right? Or is it just because they have a vendetta against every veteran member on this site.
No one needs to give people who constantly create annoying posts respect. If they want respect, they should learn how to earn it. Not constantly rant about their awesome tactic and how boring everyone online is playing because they all use juggles and how that makes a game boring. Not brag how good they are because they beat some guy 12-0 online.

And fyi, every community does not accept this kind of talk. Try going on any competitive game forum and see what happens if you talk like that, at your own risk.

Well i have read almost every post in this thread since i started posting here. And all i saw was a bunch of people hating on DEGALON just because he said he thinks guaranteed damage is boring or whatever. While in mean time DEGALON was respectful and was trying to backup his opinion. He didn't claim to be better than anybody here (in fact he even mentioned he wasn't great at the game) or calling other people scrub or whatever. From my point of view some people in here think there opinions are facts and if somebody doubt them that they are automatically scrubs and don't know shit, instead of just listening to them and try to explain to them(in a civilized manner) that they are wrong or maybe accept that they are right(which is also a possibility).
You see of course there are scrubs and trolls who have no good intentions and are just trying to mess around and fuck up the community, however DEGALON has not posted one post in which he tries to either troll with some one are is just talking complete nonsense(i don't know how he behaves on other threads im just talking about what i saw of him in this thread). And yet people respond to him in a very negative manner and make him feel unwelcome right from the start and don't even try to reason with him in a civilized manner.
When i say respect i don't mean the kind of respect you would give a very good player(which you have to earn), im talking about the respect that you have to show to every fellow human being(which is not calling them names and hating on them for no good reason).

 

[Mailifang]

Well, I'm hoping these morons are just doing it on purpose to piss people off. If they are serious, I really just cannot believe my eyes. I dono about the treat the game as a game part. Sports is, in the end still a game. If you take any game seriously, it just shows you care.

True.Even though sports are games they have rules,codes of conduct, and structure.These are things that the FGC lacks. And if fighting games do become regulated sport type events the majority of the FGC would probably not like it. A lot of the trash talking and pop offs would be seen as immature and the laid back grass root tournaments would be replaced by more sponsored sanctioned league type events. Right now the FGC is similar to the basketball streetball culture. We just love the game and want to meet,challenge, and beat strong players like ourselves. But as soon as FGC make fighting games a fully sanctioned league events with money,media, and corporate sponsorships on the line the culture of the FGC will have to mature. Because then its all about image and promoting the games within the FGC.

 

[Sam Sultan]

Your math didn't prove anything though. The fact that there are odds means it's random.

You probably don't understand the math since its correct and shows that the game is not random. If my math is wrong please do us the favor and give us the right math and prove me wrong until then don't just call my math wrong or say that it doesn't prove that the game is not random or whatever.
The fact that there are odds doesn't mean it is random. One can predict the outcome of any event using statistic analysis. Example: The outcome of a boxing match can be predicted using odds, this doesn't mean that the boxing match is random one is simply just predicting the outcome of the match using available information about previous matches. Let's say bokser1 vs bokser2 have fought each other and the results are bokser1 9 wins and boxer2 1 win. One can then using this information say that the odds for boxer1 to win vs boxer2 winning the match are probably 9 to 1. So you see you don't understand the math or not trying to understand it and you are just making false claims. So should i listen to you and say you are right just because you are a veteran or is it perhaps better to look at the actual facts?

 

[Mailifang]

I'm not gonna go into all the math but DOA as a series has always been random.The system is based on a triangle rock paper scissors game play mechanic. Every move you make or don't make in DOA is a gamble.

 

[Sam Sultan]

1) We showed you Rikuto's post that shows why DOA is random using math.
him?

Rikuto's calculations are wrong and i explained why(see previous post)

2) We didn't say DOA takes no skill. We said holding out of stun and the entire stun system in general causes the game to become random because you have to consistantly guess. In games such as virtual fighter, there is no stun. Granted there are some moves in which you have to struggle to escape, but they are easily avoidable.

It was claimed that the counter system is random thus making the whole game random. People even claimed that one can be beaten by random counters. I showed that, that is near to impossible and showed how the odds are in favor of the attacker(who was able to break trough the guard of the opponent) and thus making the attacker more than capable to finish his combo without being the victim of a random countering opponent. The fact that in DOA you don't have 100% chance of finishing your combo can not be viewed as random. And again don't like the game, feel free to play VF or Tekken but don't come in to a DOA community and make false claims about the game(which you supposedly like) and try to bring it down and make it seem it's something that it's not.

1)
3) Ganging up on people? No one is ganging up on anyone. Most of us have been trying to tell one person for the past few months why guaranteed damage is not "cheap", does not = a "free win" and does not require less work and he continues to rant about the same crap every time. No one is ganging up on him, they are all each giving their takes on it and as you can see, no one likes the ranting he always does. You expect everyone not to say anything to him?

The posts in this thread show otherwise

 

[Sam Sultan]

I'm not gonna go into all the math but DOA as a series has always been random.The system is based on a triangle rock paper scissors game play mechanic. Every move you make or don't make in DOA is a gamble.

Triangle systems are used in all fighting games example: lows beat highs, highs beat mids, mids beat lows, grabs beats counters and hits beat grabs. The major difference between DOA and other FG's is the fact that in DOA you have universal counters and can counter out of a stun. The consequences of this things are that you don't have 100% chance of finishing your combos but more like 70%. This makes attacking more difficult than other FG's and makes defending easier. In DOA4 counters did way to much damage which was very bad and you could beat someone just by countering them and that was unfair to the attacker who was able to break trough your guard and do some damage just to be countered and lose much more life than his opponent who did nothing but just guessing right. In DOA5 however the counter damage is significantly reduced and thus can only be used as a tool to stop the attacker rather than beating him. Meaning that one can use guessing only as a tool to stop the attack but not to win the match which again has nothing to do with randomness.
Also the only way one can tell if the game is random is by using math, saying you are not gonna do that implies that you are just giving your opinion and not talking about actual facts and thus limits your statement to just being an opinion rather than a fact.

 

[Mailifang]

I'm basing my opinion on playing DOA as series since it debuted in a hole in a wall arcade here in Cali back in 1996.

So I know all about the intangibles of DOA game play as a whole. It doesn't take math to realize that DOA is random.And unlike most fighting games DOA as a game relies on more instinct and adaptation than most fighting games. No matter how good you are at DOA and even DOA5 your goal is to not only eliminate your opponents options offensively ,know the characters, and the match ups you still have to rely,hope,and guess on what your opponent is going to do in every aspect of the game.

The only real advantage or control you have as a player is your knowledge of the game play,your character match up, and knowledge of your opponent. Your eventual success comes down to calculated risks(ie gambles) and adaptation to what your opponent throws at you. Now whether your strategy works or not changes during the flow of the match. You say you can do this in order for your opponent to fall for something else afterwards.But at the same time your hoping or guessing your opponent falls for that tactic or strategy.Most Counter holds in DOA5 don't do much damage but some lead up high damaging combos or in the case with the Izuna set up they can do big damage. The counter hold system forces the player to change or adapt their offense to keep from getting put into a situation where they would be put into disadvantage.

Math really is just numbers.But numbers change. We can use math to determine a definite outcome but that's only if things don't effect or change the algorithm. Tekken,SF, and some other fighting games have definite game play structures to where players can directly control the outcome based on not just how they play but those games game play structures are strictly based on the data around the game play. Tekken though is a bit confusing because most characters do have parries or counters but most players in the Tekken high level community don't use them or use characters designed to use the tools.American players in the FGC in general are all about big damage and looking good doing it while only playing games where things or tactics are A + B =C( guaranteed damage or combo). With DOA it has always been more like if A hits it will +B then if it hits it should = C but that,s only if my opponent doesn't counter hold my launcher,low attack, or combo finisher.

With DOA 5 the critical bust helps get in that guaranteed combo or damage but that's only if your opponent didn't see it coming in order to counter hold it or counter hold the attack before you executed a critical burst. Even still DOA 5 still relies on you as the player to work the odds in your favor. And no matter how well you stack the deck your opponent can still pull out an Ace. DOA play is based around a random yet balanced form of variables because the counter hold system forces you to change or adapt on the fly.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Rikuto's calculations are wrong and i explained why(see previous post)

It was claimed that the counter system is random thus making the whole game random. People even claimed that one can be beaten by random counters. I showed that, that is near to impossible and showed how the odds are in favor of the attacker(who was able to break trough the guard of the opponent) and thus making the attacker more than capable to finish his combo without being the victim of a random countering opponent. The fact that in DOA you don't have 100% chance of finishing your combo can not be viewed as random. And again don't like the game, feel free to play VF or Tekken but don't come in to a DOA community and make false claims about the game(which you supposedly like) and try to bring it down and make it seem it's something that it's not.

The posts in this thread show otherwise

How in the hell is it impossible to win while holding randomly. You only need 3 holds in DOA5, which are low hold, mid p hold, and mid k hold. Low holds beat out most attacks aside from mid p and mid k so right there is a pretty dumb advantage.
I don't understand how this is not random to you. You are unable to move and FORCED to guess. It isn't like VF where you are able to get yourself out of situations. In DOA, once you get stunned, you are forced to hold 90% of the time.

In VF, there is no stun game. You are not forced into a situation where you must do one thing in order to avoid taking damage, you have freedom. Not in DOA.
I don't understand how anyone who seriously plays fighting games competitively cannot see this difference.

 

[Murakame]

thank you for explaining why some players believe it is random clearly.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Last time I checked, the title of this thread was called "About morons online". The thread is about talking about and sharing your experiences you had or encountered with "morons" online. Just like the Wall of Shame thread. You're just posting up stuff to a get laugh, or whatever satisfaction you so desire. Threads such as these are not be taken seriously.

The last few pages have seriously gone waaaaaaaay off topic due to a few people wanting to talk about skill levels, veterans, novices, the community, egos, and people attacking each other and other things that have nothing to do with a calm and chill thread.

I tried to keep things on track by taking the heat off of SilverKhaos so things can be neutral again in here. But there's always "someone" else that feels they need say something to spark up old shit all over again.

Take that shit into one of the appropriate threads for that type of discussion if you seriously feel the need to speak out about it. And as for the people who are trying to throw the "Stop bashing me and unite with me" shit. You should seriously start off by taking your own advice and stop attacking other people. This is not directed at anyone in particular, this is being directed at ALL OF YOU.

You cannot try to criticize a community and certain people within it, when you aren't doing anything to make things seem any better yourself. If you want people to treat you with respect, then start by treating people the way you want to be treated. You can say whatever you like as it is the internet, however, things will not get any better here for anyone if all you people want to do is argue about shit.

If you want things to improve here in this community, then you already know what needs to be done in order for things to get better here. It has been said time and time again. So you can do one of two things. Either you can get it together and try doing what you can to support the community. Or you can just shut the fuck up and play this game for what it is and just enjoy it. Either option is fine and up to the individual. But all of this complaining, whinning, bitching, and arguing needs to stop.

 

[Yaguar]

But as soon as FGC make fighting games a fully sanctioned league events with money,media, and corporate sponsorships on the line the culture of the FGC will have to mature.

You aren't wrong but not 100% right. If you follow the HoN (Heroes of Newerth) pro games and teams there is a lot of immaturity there. Not saying I agree with it and it isn't across the whole genre since DOTA 2 is a far more mature game but has a lot more money involved with it, so that could be a huge deciding factor there.

I would love to see a closer nit community and bigger events but for now I say lets just enjoy the smaller social aspect we have and try to be civil. No cookies at the end of tournaments for people who act like arseholes?

 

[Jefffcore]

You probably don't understand the math since its correct and shows that the game is not random. If my math is wrong please do us the favor and give us the right math and prove me wrong until then don't just call my math wrong or say that it doesn't prove that the game is not random or whatever.
The fact that there are odds doesn't mean it is random. One can predict the outcome of any event using statistic analysis. Example: The outcome of a boxing match can be predicted using odds, this doesn't mean that the boxing match is random one is simply just predicting the outcome of the match using available information about previous matches. Let's say bokser1 vs bokser2 have fought each other and the results are bokser1 9 wins and boxer2 1 win. One can then using this information say that the odds for boxer1 to win vs boxer2 winning the match are probably 9 to 1. So you see you don't understand the math or not trying to understand it and you are just making false claims. So should i listen to you and say you are right just because you are a veteran or is it perhaps better to look at the actual facts?

Odds = random. That analogy =/= DOA. In DOA there's always someone against you picking whatever they damn well feel like. You've been told a few times why your math was inaccurate.

I don't need numbers to tell you what I can say in English. I don't even really know what to say anymore for you to understand. I'm not even sure why we're talking about this, I think you missed the original point (which I'll gladly explain when I have access to a keyboard). At this point you're arguing semantics, and it's not so fun.

 

[Takeda-sama]

To put it quite simple Higura kun "Haterz gon Hate". If they piss you off with their delusions of grandeur then you allowed them to piss you off.Most FGC competitive game forums are biased to begin with.The FGC as a culture has indoctrinated itself with so much BS that the FGC wants to consider itself to be like athletes playing a sport. Yet lack the maturity to be professionals like professional athletes are. No matter how seriously we take playing these games,we still treat these games as games.

Because, you know, it's not like Julius Erving or Kobe Bryant ever spent any time analysing the mechanics or the plays of basketball. And it's not like Julius Erving ever got in a fist fight with Larry Bird in the middle of the court or Kobe was ever charged with rape. Yes, our pro athletes are always very mature people. Always avoid steroids like Laance Armstrong, obey the law and never spend any time understanding the mechanics of the games, oops, sports they play. Plus they always act as mature as tiger woods running away from his angry wife after cheating on her 80 something times or like Bernard Tomic, driving at 150 Km per hour down an 80 km highway here in Australia. A sportsmans job is to play a sport as best and as efficiently as he can, not be your role model.

 

[Takeda-sama]

I played a guy online in doa5 shortly after I started playing the game who I beat by lying down with Brad and spamming H+K 5 times, then finally just as he had realize to low guard I pressed k for mid wake up kick followed by kkk. He messaged me back saying the following 'Omg U r the wrst plyr evr, only teh grnd sav u' to which I obviously responded 'English please'. lol

 

[Takeda-sama]

[/quote]

Yes and if I recall, he then started tweeting how TN needs to nerf Lei Fang because she is broken shortly after that.
Honestly, just don't read his tweets. It's painful. Apparently anyone that has something better than Hitomi in his opinion should be nerfed. He even stated that some of Hitomi's moves should be buffed because "They look like they should do more damage"

To say one character is substantially better than another in general is just stupid. lol