DOA5LR Ayane Combo Discussion
- Thread starter iHajinShinobi
- Start date
These do not work because opponents can tech up for free after being hit with BT 66H+K as the initial starter.
If you want ceiling combos, you have to get them from either 46H, 1H holding low punches, or 2H+P on back turned opponents.
For 46H;
8KK > BTPP4PP7K is 135 on hi counter hold
4P+K > BTPP4PP7K is 132 on hi counter hold
8KK > BTPP2P2K is 123 on hi counter hold and force techs
4P+K > BTPP2P2K is 120 on hi counter hold and force techs
For 1H on low punches;
BT4K > BT4P > BTPP4PP7K is 122 on hi counter hold
BT4K > BT6P > 66KK4 > BT7K is 129 on hi counter hold
66 > BT4K > BT6P > 8KK > BTPP4PP7K is 135 on hi counter hold
66 > BT4K > BT6P > 4P+K > BTPP4PP7K is 132 on hi counter hold on light weights
BT4K > BT6P > 66KK4 > BT4P~2K is 130 on hi counter hold on light to light-mid weights (Christie)
BT4K > BT4P > BTPP2P2K is 117 on hi counter hold on light weights and force techs
BT4K > BT4P > BTPP6P2K is 117 on hi counter hold light-mid and mid weights and force techs
For 2H+P;
BT4K > BT4P > BTPP2P2K on light weights for force tech
BT4K > BT4P > BTPP6P2K on light-mid to mid weights for force tech
BT4K > BT4P > BTPP4PP7K
BT4K > BT6P > 66KK4 > BT7K
BT4K > BT6P > 4P+K > BTPP4PP7K on light weights
BT4K > BT6P > 8KK > BTPP4PP7K on light weights
No problem, and yeah, whenever you're testing stuff out in general, remember to turn Recovery on. That helps with testing and experimenting things and testing force techs.
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
What do I need to set up in training mode when I wanna know if a combo is a force tech, an untechable or a pseudo force techs ?
I guess for each situation there is different settings or at least different results to expect (the dummy can't use rising kick/wake up kick and I have frame advantage, etc)
(I must admit I'm still confused with those three things even after watching the Advanced Oki Tutorial Video...)
I have another question : When I'm getting creative with combo, I always choose for Slow Escape Max, it is a good thing to do or is it just unrealistic to think that humans can Slow Escape at max speed ?
I guess for each situation there is different settings or at least different results to expect (the dummy can't use rising kick/wake up kick and I have frame advantage, etc)
(I must admit I'm still confused with those three things even after watching the Advanced Oki Tutorial Video...)
I have another question : When I'm getting creative with combo, I always choose for Slow Escape Max, it is a good thing to do or is it just unrealistic to think that humans can Slow Escape at max speed ?
I have Recovery turned on when I test force techs, you can set up the A.I. to wake up on Com Reaction - Mid Kick, for further testing if you so choose.
Fast and Fastest Stagger are there to tell you what's really viable on the better stuns (sitdown stuns, gut stuns, uppercut lift stuns, limbo stuns, etc). You don't have to use either of these to develop combos, but it is a very good idea (one I would suggest) to use sometimes. Just to ensure combos aren't just random button presses into Critical Burst set ups.
You want your combos to be something of worth and not something that can just happen on a whim. If you get a critical stun or certain type of stun, then you want to make sure that if option A can be held, then you need an option B that's just as viable to have added mix up potential.
Example: 11P, BT PPPP, and 4H+K all put opponents into a gut stun, which cannot be staggered escaped. Opponents either have to guess with a hold or just eat damage.
Our follow ups here are H+K, 8KK,, 4P, 4P+K, 4K, and 66KK4. All of these things have very good reward, and some even lead into force tech, which in turn makes this that much stronger. We also have potential Critical Burst/throw set ups here.
Fast and Fastest Stagger are there to tell you what's really viable on the better stuns (sitdown stuns, gut stuns, uppercut lift stuns, limbo stuns, etc). You don't have to use either of these to develop combos, but it is a very good idea (one I would suggest) to use sometimes. Just to ensure combos aren't just random button presses into Critical Burst set ups.
You want your combos to be something of worth and not something that can just happen on a whim. If you get a critical stun or certain type of stun, then you want to make sure that if option A can be held, then you need an option B that's just as viable to have added mix up potential.
Example: 11P, BT PPPP, and 4H+K all put opponents into a gut stun, which cannot be staggered escaped. Opponents either have to guess with a hold or just eat damage.
Our follow ups here are H+K, 8KK,, 4P, 4P+K, 4K, and 66KK4. All of these things have very good reward, and some even lead into force tech, which in turn makes this that much stronger. We also have potential Critical Burst/throw set ups here.
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
Ok thank you for the reply.
I'm working on Critical Burst and I always turn on Slow Escape on fastest mode and there is a probleme : 6P+K can only come after a jab P/PP or BTP/BTPP and for 4H+K it is the same except that 4H+K can come after PK or BTH+K with Fastest Slow Escape.
[...] > PP > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT P > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT PP > 6P+K CB
[...] > P > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > PK > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > BT H+K > 4H+K CB
(The exception I know is BT PPPP > 6P+K in a back turned opponent when he wakes up and I use BT Fubu xD)
SECRET : there's also P+K P 1P > 6P+K CB in counter hit that happens more often.
Does It make the Critical Burst somewhat expected ? not viable ?
The more I think about Critical Burst, the more I tend to believe that always/often looking for CB is not a good thing... because it is so predictable...
I'm working on Critical Burst and I always turn on Slow Escape on fastest mode and there is a probleme : 6P+K can only come after a jab P/PP or BTP/BTPP and for 4H+K it is the same except that 4H+K can come after PK or BTH+K with Fastest Slow Escape.
[...] > PP > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT P > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT PP > 6P+K CB
[...] > P > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > PK > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > BT H+K > 4H+K CB
(The exception I know is BT PPPP > 6P+K in a back turned opponent when he wakes up and I use BT Fubu xD)
SECRET : there's also P+K P 1P > 6P+K CB in counter hit that happens more often.
Does It make the Critical Burst somewhat expected ? not viable ?
The more I think about Critical Burst, the more I tend to believe that always/often looking for CB is not a good thing... because it is so predictable...
Ayane isn't suppose to aim for Critical Burst as her primary goal for obtaining damage. Because she gets solid damage through stun to launch mix ups so well and her counter hits, as well as normal hit launchers and her 64T throw. When she DOES go for Critical Burst, it should be the last thing to expect because she isn't going to be opting for it so often.
I rarely get held out of my Critical Burst set ups because I always keep them fresh and unexpected.
Also, something to keep in mind, we have the Critical Burst set ups outside of extending with jabs (although that is the safest way) that can happen from mids as well. And staggering out of something like 66KK4 isn't wise because it's not stopping Ayane's offense, at all. Opponents who want to stagger out of things often will still be on the defensive, allowing Ayane to keep on her offense and pressure. And they will eventually press buttons or hold out of something.
Pre-mature holds get punished hard with 64T and other options, doesn't matter if Ayane is front turn or back turn.
I rarely get held out of my Critical Burst set ups because I always keep them fresh and unexpected.
Also, something to keep in mind, we have the Critical Burst set ups outside of extending with jabs (although that is the safest way) that can happen from mids as well. And staggering out of something like 66KK4 isn't wise because it's not stopping Ayane's offense, at all. Opponents who want to stagger out of things often will still be on the defensive, allowing Ayane to keep on her offense and pressure. And they will eventually press buttons or hold out of something.
Pre-mature holds get punished hard with 64T and other options, doesn't matter if Ayane is front turn or back turn.
ShinMaruku
Well-Known Member
After spending a good 4 hours online I think I need to tighten up my Ayane play. and my Defence. I can get hits sometimes but I need to put them into damage. I think I need to work on my launchers...
You can upload some of your matches in the Ayane video thread and I can critique them, if you want. If I can see what you're doing in matches, I can definitely help you out on what you need to work on.
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
OK I see, I go back to my old play style stun+launch lol
[...] > PP > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT P > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT PP > 6P+K CB
P+K P 1P > 6P+K CB (CB after a Yoizuki-Gen-Un)
[...] > BT 4H+K > 6P+K CB <----forgot this one XD
[...] > P > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > PK > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > BT H+K > 4H+K CB
And oh yeah I forgot to mention something here. I Choose an example to explain. Everybody is aware of 66KK4 > BT PP > 6P+K CB, right ?
Here is what you can do to trick and stay unpredictable in a way :
66KK4 > BT PP > 6P+K CB becomes 66KK4 > BT P > P > BT 4H+K CB, they are almost the same but so different =)
Every time you have the BT PP > 6P+K CB you can transform it tinto BT P > P > BT 4H+K CB !
[...] > PP > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT P > 6P+K CB
[...] > BT PP > 6P+K CB
P+K P 1P > 6P+K CB (CB after a Yoizuki-Gen-Un)
[...] > BT 4H+K > 6P+K CB <----forgot this one XD
[...] > P > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > PK > BT 4H+K CB
[...] > BT H+K > 4H+K CB
And oh yeah I forgot to mention something here. I Choose an example to explain. Everybody is aware of 66KK4 > BT PP > 6P+K CB, right ?
Here is what you can do to trick and stay unpredictable in a way :
66KK4 > BT PP > 6P+K CB becomes 66KK4 > BT P > P > BT 4H+K CB, they are almost the same but so different =)
Every time you have the BT PP > 6P+K CB you can transform it tinto BT P > P > BT 4H+K CB !
What I like to do to say unpredictable to keep Critical Burst set ups live through a 66KK4 or BT PP6KK4 that is hit confirmed;
66KK4 > P > BT4H+K
66KK4 > 6P > BT4H+K
66KK4 > K > BT4H+K
66KK4 > BT2P > P > BT4H+K
66KK4 > BT2P > 3P > 6H+P
To keep these and every other viable Critical Burst set up from being held, I also do these to force players to guess;
66KK4 > 4P+K > Force tech
66KK4 > 64H+P > Force tech
66KK4 > H+K > 66KK4 > BT7K
66KK4 > 8KK > PP6P~2K force tech
66KK4 > BT PPKK > PP6P~2K force tech
66KK4 > BT4K > BTPP6KK4 > BT7K
---and plenty of other stun to launch to options.
66KK4 > P > BT4H+K
66KK4 > 6P > BT4H+K
66KK4 > K > BT4H+K
66KK4 > BT2P > P > BT4H+K
66KK4 > BT2P > 3P > 6H+P
To keep these and every other viable Critical Burst set up from being held, I also do these to force players to guess;
66KK4 > 4P+K > Force tech
66KK4 > 64H+P > Force tech
66KK4 > H+K > 66KK4 > BT7K
66KK4 > 8KK > PP6P~2K force tech
66KK4 > BT PPKK > PP6P~2K force tech
66KK4 > BT4K > BTPP6KK4 > BT7K
---and plenty of other stun to launch to options.
ShinMaruku
Well-Known Member
I am working through my 8K launch set ups. What combos are best to do do force my opponent to guess the most?
My 6 hour Ayane bootcamp really helped out last night.
My 6 hour Ayane bootcamp really helped out last night.
Anything that nets you your critical stun or counter hit (anything that isn't a sitdown stun) can go into your 8K or 8KK launch attempts. Also, remember that 8K is a high crush and normal hit launcher. So if you're anticipating highs, you're going to net some counter hit damage too.
If you launch with 8K, then your combo is as follows;
Starter 8K
8K > PPPK
8K > PP6PK
If you launch with 8KK, then your combo is as follows;
Starter 8KK
8KK > BT PP4PP7K
8KK > BT PP6P~2K force tech - Works on light weight on normal launch and in critical stun. Works on mid weights in critical stun.
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
These numbers take in account the "fastest stagger escape" and mostly only viable starters are listed but it is discutable...
LNC is for launcher, SDS for Sit Down Stun SS for Side Step
HIGH STARTERS
NEUTRAL HIT
KK +19
(BT)P+K PP +20
BT H+K +34
8K [LNC]
8KK [LNC]
236 H+K [BG] +23
COUNTER HIT
H+K [LNC]
K +17
(BT) P+K +16
HI COUNTER HIT
P +27
PP +26
BT P +22
BT PP +26
MIDDLE PUNCH STARTERS
NEUTRAL HIT
6P+K +17
4P+K [LNC]
SS P +15
11P +42
BT 4P +24
BT 6P +20
BT 3P [LNC]
COUNTER HIT
4P [LNC]
6P +15
66P +15
3P +18
9P +12
BT 4P [LNC]
BT 6P [LNC]
HI COUNTER HIT
(same as counter hit I think)
STARTERS MIDDLE KICK
NEUTRAL HIT
4K [SDS] +16
6K2K (low) 6K +9 (only) so 6K2K +15 have true possible follow ups
SS K +16
3KK (high) 3K +2 3KK +18
66K +24
66KK +6
66KK4 +20
4H+K +35 Don't know this stun name (but back hurts lol) +30 STOMACH hurts stance dependant
3H+K [SDS] +22
BT 4K [LNC]
BT 4H+K +42
COUNTER HIT
SS K [LNC]
3K +18
BT 6K [SDS] +20
HI COUNTER HIT
4K [LNC]
3H+K (knock back)
STARTERS LOW
NEUTRAL HIT
BT 3KKK
COUNTER HIT
33P +17 33PK +15
2H+K +15
1P1K +0
HI COUNTER HIT
(same as counter hit I think)
LNC is for launcher, SDS for Sit Down Stun SS for Side Step
HIGH STARTERS
NEUTRAL HIT
KK +19
(BT)P+K PP +20
BT H+K +34
8K [LNC]
8KK [LNC]
236 H+K [BG] +23
COUNTER HIT
H+K [LNC]
K +17
(BT) P+K +16
HI COUNTER HIT
P +27
PP +26
BT P +22
BT PP +26
MIDDLE PUNCH STARTERS
NEUTRAL HIT
6P+K +17
4P+K [LNC]
SS P +15
11P +42
BT 4P +24
BT 6P +20
BT 3P [LNC]
COUNTER HIT
4P [LNC]
6P +15
66P +15
3P +18
9P +12
BT 4P [LNC]
BT 6P [LNC]
HI COUNTER HIT
(same as counter hit I think)
STARTERS MIDDLE KICK
NEUTRAL HIT
4K [SDS] +16
6K2K (low) 6K +9 (only) so 6K2K +15 have true possible follow ups
SS K +16
3KK (high) 3K +2 3KK +18
66K +24
66KK +6
66KK4 +20
4H+K +35 Don't know this stun name (but back hurts lol) +30 STOMACH hurts stance dependant
3H+K [SDS] +22
BT 4K [LNC]
BT 4H+K +42
COUNTER HIT
SS K [LNC]
3K +18
BT 6K [SDS] +20
HI COUNTER HIT
4K [LNC]
3H+K (knock back)
STARTERS LOW
NEUTRAL HIT
BT 3KKK
COUNTER HIT
33P +17 33PK +15
2H+K +15
1P1K +0
HI COUNTER HIT
(same as counter hit I think)
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
I also listed all her moves from the fastest move to the slowest (the starters only) and I regrouped all the Back Turn stance moves in the end for commodity.
first the heigh of the strike, (its stance if Back Turn), its frame. H for high, MK for Middle Punch, MK for Middle Kick and L for Low. (I think it's obvious but maybe not for starters who might read this.)
H P 10
H BT P 10
H BT P+K 11
MK BT 7K 11 yes, Ayane's got a 11 frames middle kick in back turn stance
L 2P 12
H K 12
MP 6P 13
MK 6K 13
H P+K 13
L BT 2P 13
MP BT 6P 13
H 8K 14
L 1P 15
MP 3P 15
MP 4P 15
MK 3K 15
MP 66P 15
MP BT 4P 15
MK BT 6K 15
MK 4K 16
MP 4P+K 16
MK 236K 16
MK 66K 16
H H+K 16
MK 7K 18
MK BT 4K 18
L BT 2K 18
MK BT 6H+K 18
L 2K 19
MK 3H+K 19
L 33P 20
MP 6P+K 20
H BT K 20
MK BT 4H+K 20
H BT H+K 21
L 2H+K 22
H 8H+K 23
MK 4H+K 23
MP 9P 25
L BT 2H+K 25
MP SIDE STEP P 26
MK 11K 30
MP 1 P+K 30
MK BT 8K 30
MK SIDE STEP K 31
MP BT 3P 31
L BT 3K 31
MP 11P 32
MK 9K 33
L 1H+K 38
H 236H+K 39
BACK TURN
BACK TURN
BACK TURN
H BT P 10
H BT P+K 11
MK BT 7K 11
L BT 2P 13
MP BT 6P 13
MP BT 4P 15
MK BT 6K 15
MK BT 4K 18
L BT 2K 18
MK BT 6H+K 18
H BT K 20
MK BT 4H+K 20
H BT H+K 21
L BT 2H+K 25
MK BT 8K 30
MP BT 3P 31
L BT 3K 31
first the heigh of the strike, (its stance if Back Turn), its frame. H for high, MK for Middle Punch, MK for Middle Kick and L for Low. (I think it's obvious but maybe not for starters who might read this.)
H P 10
H BT P 10
H BT P+K 11
MK BT 7K 11 yes, Ayane's got a 11 frames middle kick in back turn stance
L 2P 12
H K 12
MP 6P 13
MK 6K 13
H P+K 13
L BT 2P 13
MP BT 6P 13
H 8K 14
L 1P 15
MP 3P 15
MP 4P 15
MK 3K 15
MP 66P 15
MP BT 4P 15
MK BT 6K 15
MK 4K 16
MP 4P+K 16
MK 236K 16
MK 66K 16
H H+K 16
MK 7K 18
MK BT 4K 18
L BT 2K 18
MK BT 6H+K 18
L 2K 19
MK 3H+K 19
L 33P 20
MP 6P+K 20
H BT K 20
MK BT 4H+K 20
H BT H+K 21
L 2H+K 22
H 8H+K 23
MK 4H+K 23
MP 9P 25
L BT 2H+K 25
MP SIDE STEP P 26
MK 11K 30
MP 1 P+K 30
MK BT 8K 30
MK SIDE STEP K 31
MP BT 3P 31
L BT 3K 31
MP 11P 32
MK 9K 33
L 1H+K 38
H 236H+K 39
BACK TURN
BACK TURN
BACK TURN
H BT P 10
H BT P+K 11
MK BT 7K 11
L BT 2P 13
MP BT 6P 13
MP BT 4P 15
MK BT 6K 15
MK BT 4K 18
L BT 2K 18
MK BT 6H+K 18
H BT K 20
MK BT 4H+K 20
H BT H+K 21
L BT 2H+K 25
MK BT 8K 30
MP BT 3P 31
L BT 3K 31
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
How to use those data ?
Let's say I want a hi combo starter. I choose (BT)P+K PP +20.
Now I know all the possible follow up by looking at my list. I look at all the move under 18 frames (20-2=18).
The possible follow up are (remove form the list the BT ones) :
H P 10
L 2P 12
H K 12
MP 6P 13
MK 6K 13
H P+K 13
H 8K 14
L 1P 15
MP 3P 15
MP 4P 15
MK 3K 15
MP 66P 15
MK 4K 16
MP 4P+K 16
MK 236K 16
MK 66K 16
H H+K 16
MK 7K 18
EDIT : sorry for triple post but it's a bit more clear like this, IMO, feel free to moderate
Let's say I want a hi combo starter. I choose (BT)P+K PP +20.
Now I know all the possible follow up by looking at my list. I look at all the move under 18 frames (20-2=18).
The possible follow up are (remove form the list the BT ones) :
H P 10
L 2P 12
H K 12
MP 6P 13
MK 6K 13
H P+K 13
H 8K 14
L 1P 15
MP 3P 15
MP 4P 15
MK 3K 15
MP 66P 15
MK 4K 16
MP 4P+K 16
MK 236K 16
MK 66K 16
H H+K 16
MK 7K 18
EDIT : sorry for triple post but it's a bit more clear like this, IMO, feel free to moderate
New combo for 64H+P and 64H:
64H+P > 4P+K > BT6P > 66KK4 > BT4P~K = 74 damage on normal hit and on light weights only.
This hits now due to 4P+K new juggle airstate actually launching slightly higher than it did in vanilla.
64H+P > 4P+K > BT6P > 66KK4 > BT4P~K = 74 damage on normal hit and on light weights only.
This hits now due to 4P+K new juggle airstate actually launching slightly higher than it did in vanilla.
I've gone ahead and updated the OP of this thread for DOA5U. If anyone wants combos for DOA5 Vanilla, I have the original list archived and is available as a download at the bottom of the OP as a .txt file.
The OP now consists of a section for Power Launcher Combos and a section for 3H+K's bound combos. Power Launcher section is underneath Critical Burst, the very bottom of the OP. 3H+K bound section is right above the Sitdown stun into Launch section.
Both sections will need to be updated and filled with combos, so let's get to work on those. I'll be adding my own viable content there once I get the game.
The OP now consists of a section for Power Launcher Combos and a section for 3H+K's bound combos. Power Launcher section is underneath Critical Burst, the very bottom of the OP. 3H+K bound section is right above the Sitdown stun into Launch section.
Both sections will need to be updated and filled with combos, so let's get to work on those. I'll be adding my own viable content there once I get the game.
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