System Bad habit or good strategy?: The “no mix-up” mix-up

[Intelligent Alpha]

I absolutely love the no mixup mixup game - all apart

Actually I think that it's a valid strategy part of the mindgame, the element that I really like in fighting games much more than the simple combos (another reason because I particularly like DoA).

Actually I like to use with setups much more simple of what you described where it's neither part of a mix-up but just also a single move repeated: all this not because I don't know that what I'm doing can be unsafe or risky, but just because I'm playing expecting that even the opponent knows it and so hoping to increase the surprise element of the unexpected outcome: look the very end of this match for an example (1:42) http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/ayane-kronin88-vs-phase4-doa5lr-lobby-match.8736/

Ditto! Being predictable has it's perks. I mean, look at the one or two guarantee setup players - and what do they tell you; however, if you are spamming stuff, they'll blurt out how it won't work. In fact, that is what the no mixup mixup game looks like! Conditioning is also seen as this! I don't understand one doesn't know what this technique is and/or how to utilize it.

(ie: Alpha's low are cheap, but most think she's just mids. Due to this disrespect, she gets away with broom kick setups or just plain raw ones. They seem to think she lacks highs, too unless thy're obvious.)

 

[ChaolanLegacy]

The "No mix-up" mix-up,one of the many beauties of the mindgame,imo,it's as legit as going for something very noobish,which might work after all due to the player expecting you to know what you're doing(especially if you showed him that you are a good player),all part of the mindgamesIt doesn't matter how you're getting your wins as long as you keep winning.

 

[Darkslay]

The "No mix-up" mix-up,one of the many beauties of the mindgame,imo,it's as legit as going for something very noobish,which might work after all due to the player expecting you to know what you're doing(especially if you showed him that you are a good player),all part of the mindgamesIt doesn't matter how you're getting your wins as long as you keep winning.

It is, i completely agree, it adds another layer of depth to how you see ´´high level play´´..... when done correctly XD.

 

[ChaolanLegacy]

It is, i completely agree, it adds another layer of depth to how you see ´´high level play´´..... when done correctly XD.

But of course,you must condition your opponent,so that they'll think you want to go for complicated attack methods,and then,hit them with the simple attack methods again and again,some might not fell for it tho xD.

 

[His Reverence]

If something works, no reason not to do it.
Some might call it "Spam," whereas I like to call it "No, you're just a fucking idiot."

 

[Darkslay]

If something works, no reason not to do it.
Some might call it "Spam," whereas I like to call it "No, you're just a fucking idiot."

Exactly, someone´s inability to adapt is theirs and theirs only, no reason to blame it on something you should no how to deal with.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

If something works, no reason not to do it.
Some might call it "Spam," whereas I like to call it "No, you're just a fucking idiot."

I'm going to print this post and pin it on my fridge.

 

[KasumiLover]

I really love the no-mix up strategy. People online expect you mix up, so it can be pretty confusing and fustrating when you do the same move again, and they hold in an area they expected you to mix up into. I myself as a Kasumi player do it only occasionally with or , because i notice that my opponents online always expect me to finish the string, and they'll end up on the ground for a force tech. But even still, it's risky and dangerous going for no mix ups, but I love the whole mind game trick it has on the opponent.

 

[d3v]

The no-mix-up mix-up works well in games that have mechanics that punish repetition, such as parries/red parries in 3rd Strike and holds in DOA. It's basically an application of yomi in that since you're opponent is expecting you to not do something predictable and therefore easily readable, by doing that thing, it actually does mix them up.

 

[Darkslay]

The no-mix-up mix-up works well in games that have mechanics that punish repetition, such as parries/red parries in 3rd Strike and holds in DOA. It's basically an application of yomi in that since you're opponent is expecting you to not do something predictable and therefore easily readable, by doing that thing, it actually does mix them up.

It applies to all fighting games really, it doesn´t have to do much with mechanics as much as it has to do with skill, a player that can use this effectively has far better fundamentals (imo) than your average ´´pro´´ player online.

 

[TheRealCoxinator]

It applies to all fighting games really, it doesn´t have to do much with mechanics as much as it has to do with skill, a player that can use this effectively has far better fundamentals (imo) than your average ´´pro´´ player online.

Mentioned online. Statement therefore invalid.

 

[Darkslay]

Mentioned online. Statement therefore invalid.

I said average, i´m not generalising, that would be saying that every player online is bad if they didn´t knew this which is absolutely not true, my point is that different people play the game differently and that doesn´t mean they´re bad.

 

[TheRealCoxinator]

I said average, i´m not generalising, that would be saying that every player online is bad if they didn´t knew this which is absolutely not true, my point is that different people play the game differently and that doesn´t mean they´re bad.

im just saying that knowing this and how to counter it doesnt matter. cuz online.

 

[Darkslay]

im just saying that knowing this and how to counter it doesnt matter. cuz online.

Depends, it can go both ways, this strategy can also be incredibly effective online in a ´´scrubby´´ way, like i said, it all derives from skill lol.

 

[quash]

I get what this post is saying, but I feel like the author tripped over the semantics of it.

All you had to say was that sometimes, the obvious answer is the best one, and conditioning your opponent allows you to go for things that they would normally be aware of and react to.

Your example with Jann Lee was a good one, but I feel like you neglected a very important aspect; the fact that strings can be delayed. It makes reacting to these things much more difficult than if you were to just mash out a string, and this is true of all fighting games period, but especially so of 3D fighters and especially in DOA, where you can basically control the stun game by simply delaying your strings a bit.

I get that you wanted to make it as digestible as possible, but I think your over-wording of it all had the opposite effect.

 

[d3v]

It applies to all fighting games really, it doesn´t have to do much with mechanics as much as it has to do with skill, a player that can use this effectively has far better fundamentals (imo) than your average ´´pro´´ player online.

Except mechanics do have an influence on it. Certain mechanics, such as parry and holds, encourage mixing up more in the games that have them. This means that the "no-mix-up" mix-up does become stronger because players become conditioned to expect mix-ups.

Compare this to something like Alpha 2 where you can just beat people by using strong pokes like Rose cr.mp or Chun Li's cr.mk and there isn't much reason to try to mix-up when simply using said pokes to zone your opponent wins 80-90% of your matches.

 

[Darkslay]

I get what this post is saying, but I feel like the author tripped over the semantics of it.

All you had to say was that sometimes, the obvious answer is the best one, and conditioning your opponent allows you to go for things that they would normally be aware of and react to.

Your example with Jann Lee was a good one, but I feel like you neglected a very important aspect; the fact that strings can be delayed. It makes reacting to these things much more difficult than if you were to just mash out a string, and this is true of all fighting games period, but especially so of 3D fighters and especially in DOA, where you can basically control the stun game by simply delaying your strings a bit.

I get that you wanted to make it as digestible as possible, but I think your over-wording of it all had the opposite effect.

I see your point good sir, probably my problem was that i tought this concept was foreigner to this game, boy was i happy to be wrong XD, thank you for your input, and yes delaying strings is another part of the mix-up, just look at Tekken a game with no holds lol.

 

[Darkslay]

Except mechanics do have an influence on it. Certain mechanics, such as parry and holds, encourage mixing up more in the games that have them. This means that the "no-mix-up" mix-up does become stronger because players become conditioned to expect mix-ups.

Compare this to something like Alpha 2 where you can just beat people by using strong pokes like Rose cr.mp or Chun Li's cr.mk and there isn't much reason to try to mix-up when simply using said pokes to zone your opponent wins 80-90% of your matches.

This is true, however it doesn´t mean a game has to have some type of counter mechanic for this to take place, it just changes implementation, most 2D fighters have overheads, Tekken has natural combos and a lot of games have unblockables, its more of how you adapt the strategy rather than applying it to every game.

 

[d3v]

This is true, however it doesn´t mean a game has to have some type of counter mechanic for this take place, it just changes implementation, most 2D fighters have overheads, Tekken has natural combos and a lot of games have unblockables, its more of how you adapt the strategy rather than applying it to every game.

However, what it does change is how common and how effective it is. Most fighting games tend to favor certain aspects of the meta (even games like the SF2 series). There are some games where optimization and simply going for the best stuff all the time trumps trying to go for yomi and mindgames such as these.

 

[synce]

I don't think this works in DOA. If you finish a string you're going to get countered, so mixup is a requirement. The example you used for Jann Lee is a mixup itself since he has two options after 66P.