DOA5 Bass General Discussion and Why He's So Damn Strong
- Thread starter UncleKitchener
- Start date
Pretty sure a lot of people would shit their pants if that happens.
Also, didn't know Alpha had a 10i OH. Is that
?
Also, didn't know Alpha had a 10i OH. Is that
?Bass' 6H+P OH used to be 14 in DOA1. Maybe they could do the same with the one in DOA5. 14 is still fast for an OH.
Author's self-insert character. I just found it funny because of the second panel.
Scornwell
Active Member
Been long enough, so I don't feel like I'm double posting here....
Something I noticed recently, and I hope you guys can answer this.
Bass uses 236P vs. an opponent. On NH, CH, or HC, this is a +34 through +24 with SEing.
However, if you and your opponent strike eachother at the same time, this stun becomes +46 through +36.
To test this, pick and opponent with a 10i jab and set them to high punch on reaction. Use Bass's 6T and buffer 236P.
Anyone know what gives?
Something I noticed recently, and I hope you guys can answer this.
Bass uses 236P vs. an opponent. On NH, CH, or HC, this is a +34 through +24 with SEing.
However, if you and your opponent strike eachother at the same time, this stun becomes +46 through +36.
To test this, pick and opponent with a 10i jab and set them to high punch on reaction. Use Bass's 6T and buffer 236P.
Anyone know what gives?
^ No idea, sorry.
But here's some interesting things I found while messing around in the Fighting Entertainment stage or any stage with electric ropes:
A move that gives a rather great bounce back and puts you right in the opponent's face is. This moves gives you enough frame advantage so that you can free step all the way behind your opponent and gives easy access to their rectum for you to place your boot into (keep in mind that if you try to free step with , it will force your into crouch, so do it with ).
The other two moves that grant you this set-up are and . They grant more frame advantage thanks their good recovery, however, you'd end up spending a few frame dashing forward before free stepping, essentially giving you the same set-ups for all three moves.
There are some really silly shenanigans involved with this and it's something that should scare your opponent as you have nasty throws you can do to them during their recovery and your mids are also bad news as stagger escaping and ducking/low-holding/jabbing is also a bad move and even on fast recovery in practice mode (which is probably the fastest a human being can stagger escape, unless you have a hitbox), you are still at such frame advantage that you can throw out your most basic mid poke to beat a 9-framer (and they have to have massive balls to try and hit back, unless they know exactly what you're planning (even then they're in deep shit)).
For those who simply hold or don't stagger escape, they are in for a world of pain. It is possible to put your opponent in this sort of psuedo frame-trap where you can do back-turned OHs and throws and they'd connect as it takes 5 frames to recover from back-turned to forward-facing position and it also takes one frame from transitioning between the standing and couching state. This is important to know for those who are setting up your throws.
Some strikes are also guaranteed if they either slowly stagger escape or don't SE at all. Anything i18 or faster is pretty much guaranteed to hit, this including, , , , and even (major axis issues with this move, so avoid it unless you really feel ballsy). This also makes guaranteed, giving you a back-turned . On sharp players who SE faster, you'd better off using quick pokes such as and standing , tough, if you're sharp yourself, you can still use during their back-turned recovery. You might even be able to to get if you're fast enough, which guarantees an even more damaging combo.
The advantage of all this is the element of surprise and extra damage. The disadvantage is that now your are the one with the wall on your backside.
Now, we move onto the risky business; OHs and throws. This is for when you see if you're fighting an opponent who has a habit of either holding or SEing. I'll expand on this in another post.
Also, try these out yourself and let me know how viable they are and if this deserves it's own thread. I'm still trying to figure out as much as I can right now before I start a thread.
But here's some interesting things I found while messing around in the Fighting Entertainment stage or any stage with electric ropes:
A move that gives a rather great bounce back and puts you right in the opponent's face is
. This moves gives you enough frame advantage so that you can free step all the way behind your opponent and gives easy access to their rectum for you to place your boot into (keep in mind that if you try to free step with , it will force your into crouch, so do it with ).The other two moves that grant you this set-up are
and . They grant more frame advantage thanks their good recovery, however, you'd end up spending a few frame dashing forward before free stepping, essentially giving you the same set-ups for all three moves.There are some really silly shenanigans involved with this and it's something that should scare your opponent as you have nasty throws you can do to them during their recovery and your mids are also bad news as stagger escaping and ducking/low-holding/jabbing is also a bad move and even on fast recovery in practice mode (which is probably the fastest a human being can stagger escape, unless you have a hitbox), you are still at such frame advantage that you can throw out your most basic mid poke to beat a 9-framer (and they have to have massive balls to try and hit back, unless they know exactly what you're planning (even then they're in deep shit)).
For those who simply hold or don't stagger escape, they are in for a world of pain. It is possible to put your opponent in this sort of psuedo frame-trap where you can do back-turned OHs and throws and they'd connect as it takes 5 frames to recover from back-turned to forward-facing position and it also takes one frame from transitioning between the standing and couching state. This is important to know for those who are setting up your throws.
Some strikes are also guaranteed if they either slowly stagger escape or don't SE at all. Anything i18 or faster is pretty much guaranteed to hit, this including
, , , , and even (major axis issues with this move, so avoid it unless you really feel ballsy). This also makes guaranteed, giving you a back-turned . On sharp players who SE faster, you'd better off using quick pokes such as and standing , tough, if you're sharp yourself, you can still use during their back-turned recovery. You might even be able to to get if you're fast enough, which guarantees an even more damaging combo.The advantage of all this is the element of surprise and extra damage. The disadvantage is that now your are the one with the wall on your backside.
Now, we move onto the risky business; OHs and throws. This is for when you see if you're fighting an opponent who has a habit of either holding or SEing. I'll expand on this in another post.
Also, try these out yourself and let me know how viable they are and if this deserves it's own thread. I'm still trying to figure out as much as I can right now before I start a thread.
Without running into training mode I believe I know what's happening here.
When you perform an attack you have to go through the initial, active, and recovery animations for the attack. In the case of 236P you are putting them in a stun where your recovery for 236P has ended 34 frames before their stun has ended. That's what it means by you being +34.
However, if you trade attacks with an opponent then both of you are put into each other's stun/recovery from being hit. You're seeing an increase frame advantage in the stun because the recovery of the stun you are put in from being counter-hit with a jab is shorter than the recovery of the 236P's default recovery animation. Basically, the stun from being counter-hit is 12 frames shorter than the recovery frames of 236P.
Scornwell
Active Member
Gotcha. I wouldn't call that reliable, but it's definitely bound to happen on an occasional basis with the +10/11 stun after 2T and 6T. Hmm...
Has anyone on Twitter (besides MaxDrago) asked TN for improvements to Bass with the next patch? I've been trying to find anything practical to add but I think Bass is pretty solid as is. Of course, that doesn't mean I have a wishlist of things I'd like to see added, but I'm curious if you guys think differently.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
How good is this mix up vs. characters with a crazy bt game? i.e. Helena or ayane
*on a wall*
214T,4T(kitchen push away), 236T(full charge)*2T
btw...mr.wah...why don't you do the follow up to the air throw 236T. Did you know it has one? We should start doing it. It can wall splat.
buffs for bass? More adv off his pick ups maybe? I would say make P+K a high/mid crush, but I'm fairly new to Bass...did it crush in past games?
*on a wall*
214T,4T(kitchen push away), 236T(full charge)*2T
btw...mr.wah...why don't you do the follow up to the air throw 236T. Did you know it has one? We should start doing it. It can wall splat.
buffs for bass? More adv off his pick ups maybe? I would say make P+K a high/mid crush, but I'm fairly new to Bass...did it crush in past games?
I think he was talking about the on a backturned opponent after > .
As for the air-throw, yes we know everything about this character. It's not like he has a lot of moves and sometimes you don't even need to use half of those. Wah is the kind of guy who likes to keep the opponent close, so maybe that's why you see him not do the extension in open-ground.
on a backturned opponent after > .As for the air-throw, yes we know everything about this character. It's not like he has a lot of moves and sometimes you don't even need to use half of those. Wah is the kind of guy who likes to keep the opponent close, so maybe that's why you see him not do the extension in open-ground.
So the question is why don't I use a 37i offensive hold when I'm +11? Because any attack the opponent does will beat it. I have a much better chance of landing 6KP and get the force tech into the same position but +13 instead. If you think they're going to guard you should just do to get BT TFBB which is the grizzly launcher. it has a better chance of landing than :[[H+P]]:
to get BT TFBB which is the grizzly launcher. it has a better chance of landing than :[[H+P]]:
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
oh i see. Man my Bass needs work. Using him in tournament is not that easy.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
I learned last night vs. andre...good god man...how do you do it with bass? understanding what other characters do? have a pocket Jann Lee?
Uncle: But dude it wall splats you can't past that up if you got a combo that is close to the wall. But keeping the foe close is important too.
Uncle: But dude it wall splats you can't past that up if you got a combo that is close to the wall. But keeping the foe close is important too.
Scornwell
Active Member
Well, it really depends on the opponent. Against someone with better range options than Bass like, say, Kokoro, giving her that range advantage is not worth the extra splat damage.