Black Mamba's Kill Blog

[Doug Nguyen]

From BKO throw [BKO] .is a force tech that works on both light and mid weights.

I use from BKO throw. 4PPK 33P4P then force tech with 6P. Or i do 4PPK 1PPK if theres lag.

 

[ScattereDreams]

I use from BKO throw. 4PPK 33P4P then force tech with 6P. Or i do 4PPK 1PPK if theres lag.

33P ~ BKO PP2K is a true untechable on light and mid weights.4ppk 33p4p just puts them in a situation where the opponent cannot do a wake up kick; 6p from BKO will only force tech if your opponent doesn't tech.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

33P ~ BKO PP2K is a true untechable on light and mid weights.4ppk 33p4p just puts them in a situation where the opponent cannot do a wake up kick; 6p from BKO will only force tech if your opponent doesn't tech.

You get the same result pretty much, plus that true untechable will drop pretty hard online. Good to know it exists though.

We better hope this one thing doesn't make her top tier or TN won't bother buffing her. I want a good character not a shit one with a BS loop to compensate.

 

[ScattereDreams]

You get the same result pretty much, plus that true untechable will drop pretty hard online. Good to know it exists though.

We better hope this one thing doesn't make her top tier or TN won't bother buffing her. I want a good character not a shit one with a BS loop to compensate.

I'm sure Team Ninja is still fixed on buffing her.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I'm sure Team Ninja is still fixed on buffing her.

I dunno, if that force tech ends up being as good as her old one which outside of it being harder to input it is she might end up higher on the list. I'd be gutted if she lost out on buff's just because a stupid loop had been discovered.

You're probably right though.

 

[shinryu]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but the force tech seems to kind of suck ass. I think I'm getting something like +6 after the BKO pp2k one and I think +0 after BKO 6p? May be mixing those up. Compared to Mila getting +19 and 12 damage from a 3f+k after 3f+k or 9p I think we can safely assume Helena needs to catch up a bit if my numbers are right. +6 is better than nothing but it's not like you can force a 236p+k or anything. That would be nice.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but the force tech seems to kind of suck ass. I think I'm getting something like +6 after the BKO pp2k one and I think +0 after BKO 6p? May be mixing those up. Compared to Mila getting +19 and 12 damage from a 3f+k after 3f+k or 9p I think we can safely assume Helena needs to catch up a bit if my numbers are right. +6 is better than nothing but it's not like you can force a 236p+k or anything. That would be nice.

Are you talking about her: BKO grab > 33P > BKO PP2K force tech? If so there is enough frames to make people scared of trying to counter attack and block so you can loop the grab again. Even her old force tech loop required some guess work on her part, it was just easier to do.

 

[shinryu]

I think that's the correct one, but I wasn't setting it up off the throw; maybe that's the difference. I've just started trying to get my head around Helena so I will confirm my numbers. Any frame advantage is good but the grapplers just get amazing setups off force techs and a +6 is somewhat less than amazing. Which is to say that I don't think this alone justifies the rest of her weaknesses. Team Ninja would be dumb not to give her some improvements especially on BKO entries at least.

 

[TRI Mike]

OK I'm doing this "forced tech" thing and I'm finding trouble figuring out what the point is. I don't have to deal with a wake-up kick, nice. But then I have to guess right over and over depending on what my opponent does. Hele is slower and more unsafe now so they can just block and punish, if I throw I have to deal with the wake up kick so I'm having difficulty figuring out what exactly gives Hele the advantage.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

OK I'm doing this "forced tech" thing and I'm finding trouble figuring out what the point is. I don't have to deal with a wake-up kick, nice. But then I have to guess right over and over depending on what my opponent does. Hele is slower and more unsafe now so they can just block and punish, if I throw I have to deal with the wake up kick so I'm having difficulty figuring out what exactly gives Hele the advantage.

It puts her at about a 6+ frame advantage. And since she slow. Its really useful. And naturally when your at an advantage people spam out mid punch counters, block or low counter. So its pretty much a guessing game for the Helena player to figure out what to do next. But the frame advantage is very useful with creating the pressure and loops for Helena. I know once im getting force teched, i pretty much lose so its definitely useful.

 

[TRI Mike]

On walls it's awesome but in open space I don't feel any advantage. Maybe it's just me, lol.

 

[MCDOA]

I would love to see a tutorial vid on forced tech's for Helena.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

I would love to see a tutorial vid on forced tech's for Helena.

Me too.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I can't help with a video, I can try to explain it as simply as possible:

If you juggle someone who is in the air with any off her 3in1's attacks, as an example say you use > and they don't tech roll immediately when they hit the ground they will get hit by Helena's or assuming she does it straight away.

Either they tech roll and forego using a wake up kick or they don't tech roll and get hit by Helena's or forcing them up and again not be able to use a wake up kick.

I hope that helps anyone who is having trouble understanding how this set up works. Can't think off any easier way to explain it. Failing that message me on XBL and I will happily show you.

 

[TRI Mike]

I perfectly understand how it works. I'm just not finding any realistic advantage to it other than not having to deal with wake up kicks. If I force them up and guess wrong next, Hele is dead. In walls I can keep the pressure but in open space I don't see it as a magical new thing that will make her mid tier automatically. She's still shit to me.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I perfectly understand how it works. I'm just not finding any realistic advantage to it other than not having to deal with wake up kicks. If I force them up and guess wrong next, Hele is dead. In walls I can keep the pressure but in open space I don't see it as a magical new thing that will make her mid tier automatically. She's still shit to me.

Well yeah Helena shouldnt have to rely heavily on just her force techs, since most other characters can do the same. But it definitely helps. Once i get someone force teched it basically becomes a loop. You really have to know your opponent and how they will react. You pretty much have to train them to counter a certain thing so you dont guess wrong, then punish them. All it basically does is put you at an advantage. So its nothing new, just play Helena as you would, except your gaining a frame advantage. And the force tech makes your opponent feel the pressure and they will panic by countering, so just take that in to consideration. I dont see it as a wake up kick nullifier, i see it as a way to keep your opponent guessing and on the defense. Sorry i dont know how to explain it well, but all i can say is, it works great for me.

 

[TRI Mike]

I know I know, It's actually a nice thing but someone outside this site was acting like this magically made her DOA4 Hele again and it's clearly not the case.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I know I know, It's actually a nice thing but someone outside this site was acting like this magically made her DOA4 Hele again and it's clearly not the case.

Ohh no way, she technically only has one true force tech as of now. Almost most of the cast has pseudo force techs too. I guess Helena just has better set up for her pseudo force techs, basically anything ending with her hand slaps, which kinda sucks too since, you cant be expecting to land high enough launchers every time. Again, almost everyone has force teching, so its not a Helena exclusive tool. But i actually think Hitomi has one of the best force teching in the game too. Helena needs other tools outside her force techs, because if i cant get launchers so i can end with a hand slaps into a force tech, i really dont have much to work with.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Can't they just improve her damage output by 10% (or something) and give her frame advantage on some moves or change her speed by 5% ? Okay, this is not a MMORPG but wouldn't it be quicker ? I mean, if they're really lazy and they don't want to change anything, add new animations, the way she is playing, that sounds like a brutal but effective thing to do.

Please don't tell me Team Ninja, just like some people on the Internet, is denying Helena's nerf.

(My question is very naive but sincere at the same time).

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Can't they just improve her damage output by 10% (or something) and give her frame advantage on some moves or change her speed by 5% ? Okay, this is not a MMORPG but wouldn't it be quicker ? I mean, if they're really lazy and they don't want to change anything, add new animations, the way she is playing, that sounds like a brutal but effective thing to do.

Please don't tell me Team Ninja, just like some people on the Internet, is denying Helena's nerf.

(My question is very naive but sincere at the same time).

They didn't deny her being nerfed, they simply said she was changed to play a certain way. They won't bother making any changes that require a lot of effort. The only thing they may do is change frame data which will be enough to buff her. She won't get faster, she has always been mediocre with speed that isn't about to change. My prediction is that she may get a slight damage buff and become a bit safer that is all they will probably do.