DOA5LR Christie Match-Up Compilation


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Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Hey guys, let's put together a compilation of all the MU's for Christie in DOA5LR and future releases! Just post your MU breakdown in this thread! Discussion of MU's can be done in the "Christie Match-Up Thread".


Christie vs. Akira Yuki

Christie vs. Alpha-152

Christie vs. Ayane (5-5)

Christie vs. Bass Armstrong (6-4)

Christie vs. Bayman

Christie vs. Brad Wong (6-4)

Christie vs. Ein

Christie vs. Eliot (5.5-4.5)

Christie vs. Gen Fu

Christie vs. Hayate

Christie vs. Helena Douglas (5.5-4.5)

Christie vs. Hitomi

Christie vs. Honoka

Christie vs. Jann Lee

Christie vs. Jacky Bryant

Christie vs. Kasumi (5-5)

Christie vs. Kokoro

Christie vs. Lisa Hamilton (La Mariposa)

Christie vs. Lei Fang (5-5)

Christie vs. Leon

Christie vs. Marie Rose

Christie vs. Mila

Christie vs. Momiji (5-5)

Christie vs. Naotara

Christie vs. Nyotengu

Christie vs. Pai Chan

Christie vs. Phase-4

Christie vs. Rachel (6-4)

Christie vs. Raidou

Christie vs. Rig

Christie vs. Ryu Hayabusa

Christie vs. Sarah Bryant

Christie vs. Tina Armstrong

Christie vs. Zack

MU's will be added to here as they become completed. I added a few to get the ball rolling! We still have a long way to go!

Edit: We are currently 1/4 of the way done!
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Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Ayane (i10/i13/i12)

White vs. Purple. The battle of arguably two of the strongest characters in DOA5LR, and naturally two of the biggest pain in the asses for each other. What you have here is this great pressure beast with amazing evasive movement up against a zoning monster with movement that instill fears in even the most stalwart opponents, along with truly deadly whiff punishment capability. As you can tell both characters are here to fight, and both are here to dish out a lot of pain. Compared to most adversaries, Ayane is definitely one of the more meddlesome opponents to deal with because her moveset is very proficient at shutting down tools that can easily be taken for granted such as JAK. Anyways, here's some of Ayane's attributes:

Ayane's Neutral pokes

P = i10/ -1 on block/ +0 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P, Transitions into BT Stance, PP has Tracking)
6P = i13/ -10 on block/ -8 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P, Transitions into BT Stance, 6PP has Tracking)
K = i12/ -10 on block/ +2 on hit/ 27 dmg (High K, Transitions into BT Stance, Tracking)
6K = i13/ -9 on block/ +15 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K)
2P = i12/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
3K = i15/ -8 on block/ +6 on hit/ 24 dmg (Mid K, 3KK has Tracking, and Transitions into BT Stance)
1P = i15/ -10 on block/ -2 on hit/ 18 dmg (Low P, Transitions into FT Stance, Tracking)
P+K = i13/ -9 on block/ -1 on hit/ 18 dmg (High P, Transitions in BT Stance, Tracking)

BackTurned Stance Neutral Pokes

BT P = i10/ -7 on block/ -6 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P, Transitions into FT Stance)
BT 6K = i15/ +0 on block/ +4 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid K, Transitions into FT Stance, Tracking, SDS on CH)
BT 2P = i13/ -10 on block/ -2 on hit/ 12 dmg (Low P, Transitions into FT Stance, Unsafe)
BT 1P = i13/ -12 on block/ -5 on hit/ 18 dmg (Low P, Tracking)
BT P+K = i11/ -5 on block/ -1 on hit/ 18 dmg (High P, Tracking)

When fighting Ayane in close (or at range too actually), you need to keep track of when she's either in Front Stance (FT) or BackTurned Stance (BT). More specifically you need to keep track of what options she has available at any given time because, she has more for you to account for than pretty much any other character for the most part. You may also notice that a lot of her attacks transition into BT at either the first hit or after a follow-up. A common thing that Ayane may try to do is poke with her 5P or 1P to set-up her BT mix-ups. 1P is negative on NH, but has a high and low follow-up to discourage retaliation. Both follow-ups can be defended against by low blocking. If an opponent is trying to scum you with 1P~BT1P shenanigans on NH, you could try 6PP'ing nailing Ayane in the back. However, I'm generally patient when dealing with Ayane's that poke with 1P or BT1P. 5P is actually tricky to deal with because of the ability for Ayane to perform 5P~BT8P, an ability that allows Ayane to poke her opponent then dart away to try and bait you to whiff something in front of her. And generally you don't want to whiff in front of her. She also has numerous follow-ups after 5P such as PP, PPK~ or P4P for example. 5P~BTH+P is also one of the best "Punch~Grabs" in the game.

Here's Some of Ayane's Powerful Whiff Punishers

3PP =
i15/ -15 on block/ -3 on hit/ 20 + 24 dmg (Mid P x2, Transitions into BT Stance, Tracking, CH Launcher, Unsafe)
4P = i15/ -15 on block/ -13 on hit/ 24 dmg (Mid P, Transitions into BT Stance, Tracking, Powerful Mid Crush CH Launcher)
4K = i16/ -12 on block/ +24 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K, SDS, Unsafe)
3H+K = i19/ -3 on block/ +57 & Bound on hit/ 26 damage (Mid K, Transitions into BT Stance, Tracking, Safe)

BackTurned Whiff Punishers
BT 4P = i15/ -11 on block/ +34 on hit/ 24 dmg (Mid P, Tracking, Powerful Mid Crush CH Launcher)
BT 6P = i13/ -15 on block/ +30 on hit/ 24 dmg (Mid P, Transitions into FT Stance, Unsafe)
BT 6K =
i15/ +0 on block/ +4 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid K, Transitions into FT Stance, Tracking, SDS on CH, Neutral Advantage on block)
BT 4H+K =
i20/ -8 on block/ +70 crumple stun on hit (Mid K, Transitions into FT Stance, CB, Safe)
BT P+KP = i14/ -8 on block/ +70 crumple stun on hit (Mid P x2, Transitions into FT Stance, Unsafe)

Here are the main whiff punishers to look out for when fighting Ayane. In terms of potential damage, 3PP & 4K are more dangerous than the other two, though they're also unsafe when blocked. 4K can be i7 or even i10 thrown (though you need to be pretty sharp when doing so). 3PP can be BT-thrown or if you're feeling frisky, can be 6PP~'ed or PP~'ed punished due to Ayane being BT'ed (Actually anytime you nail Ayane in the back with 6P, the full 6PPPP string is guaranteed). Christie's throw punishment isn't the best, so opting for a strike punishment mix-up isn't a terrible idea. 3H+K is one of Ayane's longest reaching whiff punishers (besides 236K or 4H+K, which are unsafe on block), and is also a very safe poke on block or even on whiff. A tactic that Ayane can use after 3H+K is to perform a BT8P to retreat slightly after the move is used. This effectively turns 3H+K into a powerful keepout tool. 1P+K~K is another whiff punisher that is dangerous because of the back-twirl initial motion, which induces whiffs, along with the move being safe on block at anywhere from -2 to -5 on block. If you block 1P+K~K, pressure immediately with quick pokes and don't try to throw it.

4P is one of Ayane's more common moves and is essentially known as her "Infamous Mid Crush" because of its ability to crush her opponent's dreams, including Christie's. 4P & BT 4P are arguably the biggest moves to watch out for when facing this opponent because this bullshit move can CH you out of so much, especially when used at around mid range. Also, it is the move that can blow up JAK very easily if JAK is misused. If you block 4P or BT 4P, you also need to note that there are two follow-ups, a low & high option that are very delayable. If you block 4P in close, you can 2P right away to stuff both follow-ups.

Because of 4P (and the retarded amount of tracking that Ayane has), you're not going to be sidestepping that much in this MU. This means that you're going to have to run a linear fight on her. That means in close you're going to have to try and suppress her with 5P and 6P strings. H+K & 1P can be used to keep sidestepping in check, though Christie's strings CH SS~attacks quite well. If possible try to back Ayane into a corner to take away her spacing advantage because she is more dangerous at range than in close in the MU. Once you've got Ayane backed into a corner, you can now try to set up Walled~66H+P, Rolling~H+P, or attempt to wall slam her (Christie has quite bit of moves that can wall slam such as 3K, 7K, 6KK/6KP, KK, 6PPP for instance or numerous moves from JAK). Pressuring Ayane at a wall and keeping her there will net you good damage and stunt any potential momentum that she may try to generate. Be careful of her 64H+P though, because it changes positions, thus putting Christie in the corner, allowing Ayane to set up some heavy guaranteed damage. Ayane can also attempt to escape a corner by jumping away with BT 9P or 6P9 for example. If she jumps over you from relative neutral, you will have the advantage and can poke her as she lands.

On a different note, try to learn to defend against 6K2K on reaction. You really don't want Ayane scumming you with this move regularly. Same goes for shit such as PP6K2K, 66KK4 & BT PP6KK4. The latter two moves grant Ayane +1 on block along with her BT'ed mix-ups, but are Mid K~High~K attacks, meaning you can crouch, or now hold the second kick. 66KK4 is also pretty easy to swat out of the air with something as measly as 6PP. If you block 66KK4, you can 6PP her in the back to beat out most options aside from her BT P strings (which can loop into another BT PP6KK4). Since Christie has an i9 jab, Ayane's i10 BT P will trade due to the +1. Though, Ayane's BT 6P can high crush for a powerful CH launch, so take heed when dealing with 66KK4 on block. Also when Ayane has the advantage, be careful of attempts for her to try and frametrap you with her i12 2P. It is +0 on NH, so Christie's 6P can shut down another 2P attempt (which characters with an i13 mid, i13 low and slower can't beat out through poking). She could do stuff such as 2P~5P of course, but the neutral poking speed is still in Christie's favour more or less.

Overall I'd say that this MU is 5-5 because both characters can be a huge pain in the ass to each other and both require quite a bit of patience to deal with the other. Ayane's zoning, movement, whiff punishment and hi-crushing capability can be hell for Christie, but once Christie has closed the distance and preferably got Ayane backed into a corner, she can bring some serious hurt on her, which is aided by Christie's superior speed and pressure in close. The main thing to account for in the MU is learning to fight without relying on JAK too much (I.e. reserving it mostly for mix-ups when Ayane is stunned), and being really careful about how you approach Ayane. This is one of Christie's toughest MU's, but is very manageable as long as you keep your wits with you and don't do anything stupid like JAKing off from neutral. Oh, and fuck 4P.


Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Kasumi (i9/i11/i12)

This is an interesting MU because this is one of the few instances when Christie is actually fighting an opponent that is faster than her. Speed wise, Christie cannot beat out Kasumi on any attack level. Their i9 jabs will trade, Kasumi's i11 6P can beat out Christie's i11 6P because Kasumi's deals 18 dmg whereas Christie's only deals 17 dmg thus Kasumi's having damage priority. Kasumi's 2P is 2 frames faster than Christie's 2P, but is -1 on NH. This is a unique case because Christie is one of the few characters that can take advantage of the -1 since her 5P jab, & 6P will beat out any follow-up that Kasumi may attempt after a 2P on NH. Someone like Rachel or Tina still wouldn't be able to outpoke Kasumi after a NH 2P since their poke speeds (i11/i13/i14) would still be too slow. Another thing to note about Kasumi is that her 5P strings are just as versatile, if not more versatile than Christie's 5P strings thanks to Kasumi's superior High/Mid/Low mix-ups. When Kasumi does PP~, you're gunna have to make a guess in some way to get out of the situation. Her 5P strings and free cancel ability are also assisted by a significantly stronger throw game than Christie which can be devastating if you let her have her way with you. Speed isn't saving Christie's ass here.

Kasumi's Neutral Pokes

P = i9/ -3 on block/ -2 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
6P = i11/ -9 on block/ -8 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P, 6PK & 6P2K have tracking)
K = i11/ -9 on block/ +8 on hit/ 20 dmg (High K)
6K = i15/ -14 on block/ +13 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K, Tracking)
2P = i12/ -4 on block/ -1 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
2K = i14/ -9 on block/ -8 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low K)
P+K = i14/ -14 on block/ -10 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Tracking)
3K = i14/ -8 on block/ +4 on hit/ 24 dmg (Mid K, 3KK has tracking)
1K = i20/ -16 on block/ +14 on hit/ 23 dmg (Low K, Tracking, Trip Stun on NH, Unsafe)
1P = i16/ -10 on block/ -9 on hit/ 12 dmg (Low P)
4P = i12/ -9 on block/ -7 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
3P = i13/ -9 on block/ -8 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P)
= i17/ -13 on block /+23 on hit/ 26 dmg (High K, Tracking, Stumble Stun on CH)
4K = i16/ -9 on block/ +19 on hit/ 23 dmg (High K)

Strings off of Initial Pokes
PPPPP (HHMMH) (Unsafe)
PPPKP (HHMHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PPP2K (HHML) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP6PP (HHMH) (Unsafe)
PP6PKK (HHMMM) (Tracking, PP6PK is safe on block, Unsafe)
PP6PK2K (HHMML) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP6P6KP (HHMMH) (Unsafe)
PP6P6KK (HHMMM) (Unsafe)
PP6P2K (HHML) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PPKK (HHHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PPK2K (HHHL) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP7K (HHM) (Very Unsafe)
PP6KK (HHMH) (Tracking, Semi-safe)
PP6K2K (HHML) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP2K (HHL) (Tracking, Unsafe)
P6PP (HMM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
P6PK (HML) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PKKP (HHHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PKKK (HHHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PKK7K (HHHM) (Very Unsafe)
PKK6K (HHHM) (Unsafe)
PK3K (HHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PK2K (HHL) (Tracking, Unsafe)

6PP (MH) (Unsafe)
6PKK (MMM) (Tracking, 6PK is safe on block, Unsafe)
6PK2K (MML) (Tracking, Unsafe)
6P6KP (MMH) (Unsafe)
6P6KK (MMM) (Unsafe)
6P2K (ML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

KKP (HHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
KKK (HHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
KK6K (HHM) (Unsafe)
KK7K (HHM) (Very Unsafe)
K3K (HM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
K2K (HL) (Tracking, Unsafe)

6KK (MH) (Tracking, Semi-safe)
6K2K (ML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

2KK (LH) (Unsafe)

P+KP (MM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
P+KK (ML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

3KK (MH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

1PP (LH) (Unsafe)

4PP (MH) (Unsafe)
4PKK (MMH) (Unsafe)
4P2K (ML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

3PPP (MMH) (Unsafe)
3PKP (MHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
3PKK (MHM) (Safe)
3P2K (ML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

H+KK (HM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
H+K2K (HL) (Tracking, Unsafe)

4KP (HM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
4KK (HM) (Safe)

As you can see Kasumi has a shitload of mix-up potential off her strings. Hell, she can practically mix you up for days off of just her 5P strings. However, you may notice that if Kasumi does finish pretty much any string, she'll be left unsafe. The only exceptions really are her strings based off of 4KK or 6KK. Unlike Christie for the most part, Kasumi has genuinely dangerous lows. 1K, and any variation of her 6P2K provide a considerable amount of frame advantage on NH allowing her to easily open up a defensive opponent, particularly when in close. When Kasumi is attempting to pressure with her 5P strings, prioritize PP2K, because that low is a pain in the ass and is very abusable if not defended against. In other words if you see Kasumi throw out PP, prioritize crouching. This will beat out PP2K, and PP~Grab. However, this will inevitable influence Kasumi to perform strings such as PP6P, PPP, and PP6K. If you get hit by the mid, SE the stun to force Kasumi to use a quick follow-up. To be honest, to institute the most damage control, you're pretty much gunna have to guess between PP2K/PP~Grab, and PP~Mid, though PP2K can become a huge nuisance if you're not able to react to the low.

The poke with the next best mix-up ability is 6P. 6P doesn't exactly have the sheer wealth of follow-ups that 5P has, but its mix-up capability is definitely comparable. 6PK, is an incredible poke for Kasumi. It's a fast follow-up to 6P that tracks, causes a decent stun on CH, and is safe on block due to pushback (despite being -12 on paper). Kasumi can basically throw out this poke to no consequence. To top it off the string has heavy delayability and two follow-ups: a Mid K & a Low K, both of which also track. It's very easy to get thrown off by 6PKK & 6PK2K if the opponent is just poking with 6PK regularly. Technically the 2nd hit of 6PK is holdable, but that needs impeccable reactions along with a solid read. 6PK, can be mixed up with 6P2K, which stuns on NH and knockdowns on CH (setting up Kasumi's solid oki pressure). The 2nd hit of 6P2K is technically reactable, but if the opponent is mixing in 6PK well, that will be very tough to do. You're unfortunately going to have to read the opponent's habits and punish 6P2K whenever you block it. A big counter to fighting Kasumi is learning to block her lows. Any variation of 1K or 6P2K should receive priority. If you can't defend against her lows, she will run circles around you and have a field day.

Kasumi's Forward-Facing Throws

H+P i5/ 45 dmg (Breakable, Can induce environmental damage)
6H+P i7/ 50 dmg (Standard punish throw, has walled version)
46H+P i7/ 25 dmg/ grants +10 (Reset pressure throw)
4H+P i10/ 56 dmg (Position switch throw, has walled version)
66H+P~T i7/ grants +10 + BT (Breakable, can set up guaranteed combos)
66H+P~2T i7/ 55 dmg (Breakable, has walled version)
236H+P i12/ 18+15 dmg (Launcher throw, can induce ceiling hits)
214H+P i12/ 62 dmg
33H+P i17/ 68 dmg (Long-reaching, "delayed" throw, optimal for punishing whiffed holds, has walled version)
8H+P i29/ 56 dmg (Jumping throw)
8H+P~T i29/58 dmg (Jumping, position switch throw)
HOS~T i39/ 60 dmg (Stance throw)
9P~T i5/ 56 dmg (Stance, jumping throw)
9P~T~T i5/ 58 dmg (Stance, postion switch, jumping throw)

Despite being the fastest character in the game, Kasumi has a deceptively versatile throw set. She quite frankly has a throw for almost every situation. Oh you thought you could block? There's 33T, 214T, and 236T for damage, and 46T for frame advantage. Need to get out of a corner? You've got 4T & 66T~T as an escape plus some decent damage. Whiffed a hold? 33T, 214T and 236T will make you think twice about that. You also don't want 236T to chuck you into the ceiling too unless you like being used to decorate the walls afterwards.

So when you're dealing with Kasumi's 5P strings and free cancel capability, these are the kinds of throws to worry about. 33T, 236T & 214T are the most dangerous and 66T~T can set up quite a lot of damage if you're unable to break it. 46T is not as common, but can be quite jarring and a nuisance if used regularly since it comes off as very sudden and provides Kasumi with +10 frame advantage. If you get hit by this throw, the best course of action is to fuzzy guard with 33H any follow-ups. For the jumping throws like 8T, try to crouch or high crush them on reaction. Any potential attacks that Kasumi can toss out of 9P are high, so there's no reason to remain standing when you hear her signify that she's going to jump at you. For HOS~T, most characters would have to guess between HOS~K & HOS~T. However, Christie's one of the few characters that can pretty much negate the mix-up with JAK, which will crouch the highs and sidestep HOS~K. The most common move to enter HOS is 66PP6 which is a mid-range Mid-High GB. If you block the 1st hit, the 2nd hit is duckable or holdable on reaction. If you do block 66PP6, Kasumi will be at +4 and you will be treated to a HOS mix-up. If Kasumi does just 66PP, the move will become a negative GB and she will be at left at -7.

This will be one of the MU's where it may not be best to fight in close range, though Christie can definitely take the fight to Kasumi in close if she has the advantage. A recommended range would be to fight Kasumi outside of her PP & 6P ranges. The less that you have to deal with Kasumi's 5P & 6P strings, the much harder it is for her to win. In fact, unlike Christie, Kasumi is a bit vulnerable to strong keepout. Don't get me wrong, Kasumi does have the tools to get in on her opponent from a distance and stay in on them, but she's not going to be beating any tough opponents by fighting at range predominantly. So if you can try to attempt a spacing game on her, that may be preferable. You can use JAK backdashes (2P+K~44/8P+K~44), to aid in maintaining distance along with poking through the use of 4K, 2H+K~, or 6P. With good spacing you can also attempt to whiff punish something with 214P for a very juicy SDS. Kasumi can keep JAK in check with her i14 tracking mid P+K, so you can't really abuse JAK that much. Also take note that Kasumi does possess parries, though they don't grant her much advantage. They do allow her to switch positions however if she was to be trapped in a corner for instance. She also has an Expert Mid K Hold, which has the ability to cause ceiling hits. Ouch.

It's hard to tell which way this MU swings. Due to the overall versatility of Christie's moveset, it feels like the MU may be slightly in her favour, but Kasumi's toolset and superior Mid-High-Low mix-up game and throw game can definitely hurt Christie if Kasumi is able to get her offensive pressure started. Basically Kasumi's one of those characters that can get in on you, and then stay on your ass all fight thanks to her great oki pressure (be careful of 4H+K which FT's and is safe on block). I was leaning towards 5.5-4.5 at first, but overall I'd have to rate the MU a 5-5. Kasumi's too much of an annoying little fly in close to allow this MU to roll in Christie's favour. Do what you can and swat her down!


Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Leifang (i10/i12/i15)

The Blood-Soaked Snake vs. the Tai Chi Chuan Genius. This will be a battle of contrasting styles in the sense that Christie will want to mount as much offensive pressure as possible, while Leifang will want to apply "defensive pressure" on her opponent in front of her. This defensive pressure is in the form of threatening her opponent with her plethora of parries, sabakis, including a sabaki stance, and of course her very dangerous expert holds. In essence, Leifang's moveset almost seems perfectly designed to deal with Christie's moveset. So you can't go all ham on Leifang, without knowing what she's capable of, unless you enjoy becoming her plaything. Trust me, you do not want to become her plaything.

Here's an overview of her Defensive Hold techniques:

High P Hold = 65 dmg (97 dmg on HiCH)
Expert High P Hold = 75 dmg (112 dmg on HiCH, Strong knockback)
High K Hold
= 65 dmg (97 dmg on HiCH)
Expert High K Hold = 75 dmg (112 dmg on HiCH)
Mid P Hold
= 65 dmg (97 dmg on HiCH)
Expert Mid P Hold = 70 dmg (104 dmg on HiCH)
Mid K Hold
= +15 advantage + BT
Expert Mid K Hold = 20 dmg, +15 advantage + BT (30 dmg on HiCH)
Low P Hold
= 65 dmg (97 dmg on HiCH)
Expert Low P Hold = 75 dmg (112 dmg on HiCH, Strong knockback)
Low K Hold
= 65 dmg (97 dmg on HiCH)
Expert Low K Hold = 75 dmg (112 dmg on HiCH)

High & Mid Parries = +16 advantage

Leifang's holds are very strong especially if she is utilizing her Expert Holds often. Her Expert Mid K is likely the most devastating with the capability to lead into 100+ dmg combos with good wall carry. And most Leifang players just love to toss out this hold (and you'll quickly realize why once you get hit by it)! As a result you'll have to be careful with when you toss out Mid K's against Leifang, i.e. those oh-so-tempting 4K's, 8K's & H+K's for example may need to get replaced or you may be in for a world of hurt. Be careful with Mid P's when Leifang has her back to a wall because both of her Walled Mid P & Expert Mid P holds are brutal, especially to dangerzones. Her Expert High P Hold can also smash you into walls. Be wary of using Low P's predictably when Christie has her back to a wall or edge since the Expert Low P Hold can knock you back a fair distance. Leifang will also attempt to maintain the advantage on you from neutral or slight disadvantage by utilizing her High and Mid parries. To try and discourage parry and expert hold attempts, I tend to throw her more often than other characters for juicy Hi-counter damage, though Christie's throws aren't exactly that devastating compared to say, Tina.

Leifang's Offensive Hold techniques
= i16/40 dmg (Walled version = 50 dmg plus slump down status)
236T~4T~66T = i20/90 dmg (Breakable)
236T~4T~46T = i20/85 dmg (Breakable, Strong knockback)
3T = i10/50 dmg (Decent knockback, Low OH)

Leifang's R1F strikes

Fastest initial strikes:

P = i10/ -5 on block/ -3 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
= i12/ -12 on block/ -8 on hit/ 17 dmg (Mid P)
= i11/ -14 on block/ -3 on hit/ 22 dmg (High K)
= i12/ -14 on block/ +3 on hit/ 20 dmg (Tracking High K)
= i13/ -10 on block/ -7 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid K)
= i15/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
= i15/ -9 on block/ -3 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low K)

Strings off of Fastest strikes:
(HHH) (Safe)
PPP4 (HHH~Punch Parry)
PP6PP (HHMM) (Tracking, Semi-Safe)
PP6P4 (HHM~Punch Parry)
PP6PK (HHM(M/H)) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP4P (HHM) (Unsafe)
PPKK (HHHH) (Tracking, Safe)
PPK2K (HHHM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PPKH+K (HHHM) (Safe)
PP2K (HHL) (Unsafe)
P2PP (HMM) (Semi-Safe)
P2P2K (HML) (Unsafe)
P2PP+K (HMM) (Very Unsafe)
PKK2K (HHML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

(MM) (Semi-safe)
6P4 (M~Punch Parry)
6PK6P (M(M/H)M) (Unsafe)

(HH) (Tracking, Safe)
K2K (HM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
KH+K (HM) (Safe)

(HML) (Tracking, Unsafe)

(MM) (Very Unsafe)

Once Leifang has you playing defensively, she's naturally going to try and open you up. She has great OH's including the very fast 66T, that can set up a wall-resetting slump down status, the i20 236T combo hold that can get big damage if either sequence is completed and the i10 3T for catching crouching statuses such as Christie's rolls or JAK stance. Anytime you suspect an OH attempt, immediately crouch or throw her. Her 236T is breakable, but 66T can catch you easily especially on wake-up or when Christie has her back to a wall. Don't let Leifang abuse 66T!

Leifang also has many strings off of her P, with PP2K & P2P2K being the most likely ones to be used to open you up thanks to the tricky low sweep off them. 1KK also leads to the same sweep and it is a good idea to get acquainted with it to be able to block or low hold it on reaction (including raw 2H+K's). PKK2K and 4KK2K also end in low sweeps and can throw you off easily but the kicks go in a more predicable "High-Mid-Low" sequence. The trick is to not crouch too earlier after the high sweep or the mid sweep will nail you (which definitely happens because of the instinctual nature to duck after she crouches down to perform the mid sweep :().

For R1F Christie has the advantage thanks to having an i9 jab and an i11 mid. Leifang is also one of only 3 characters that possesses an i11 5K (Genfu and Kasumi are the others), so she can use that to stuff 6P from neutral. However, Leifang can easily take control of the fight right away if she stuffs you with her sabaki stance 4P+K. If you suspect that she may try to sabaki you, you can use 6K or H+K (or launch her ass with 9K) to discourage their use. 2H+K or 5KK can be used as a mix-up to the Mid-K's. On a different note, quite a bit of Leifang's strings are side-steppable. See how you can implement SS!

You'll have to be a little cautious in R1F against Leifang due to her sabakis, though under most circumstances you'll have the advantage due to superior speed on every hit level. Christie also manages to have a faster 2P than Leifang, so Christie can beat her out in the low game from neutral (not that Leifang's lows are bad exactly, quite the opposite). Leifang's 2P & 2K are i15 which is pretty meh speed-wise. Some of her lows can be tricky such as the ones that end in the "2H+K" sweep, but by and large they're fairly slow. If you can block her lows on reaction, she'll rely on her OH's like 66T to open you up more often.

Some of Leifang's options at Mid-Range to Long-Range
6H+K (Safe)
66KK (Unsafe for each strike)
4KK2K (Unsafe for each strike)
H+K (Safe)
66P (Semi-safe)
1KK/1KP4 (Unsafe for each strike, 1KP -8 on block)
PP2K (Unsafe)
1P+K (Safe, +5 Advantage GB when fully charged, Strong knockback)

One of Leifang's weaknesses is that she can be vulnerable to strong keepout and lacks a solid range game. She's not necessarily screwed if she has to fight at range, but it is rather un-optimal for her. Particularly if you have the life lead, you can feel free to attempt a ranged fight with Leifang by some JAK~backdash zoning (2P+K~44/8P+K~44) along with poking with 4K, 6P or 2H+K mostly. If Leifang has the advantage such as on wake-up, she may attempt 6H+K (which is no longer a GB but not unsafe) or a run-up 66T. She may poke with 4KK, 1KP or try and sneak in a low with PP2K. H+K will whiff punish you for a CH bounce combo along with 1P+K, which causes a strong knockback on hit. 66KK is used to intercept some of Christie's attacks through deceptive crushing. Straight-up, I hate 66K or 66KK. It's unsafe, but still, ugh. Crushes more shit than you may think...

Leifang's Infamous Mid-Crushes
= i18/ -15 on block/ +33 on NH & Launch (Mid K x2)
= i17/ -11 on block/ +0 on NH (Mid P x2)
= i18/ -14 on block BT'ed/ Launch on NH (Mid P, Unholdable)

Ah, the bullshit that aids in Leifang's ascent into high tier! Screw her holds and parries, these attacks all have one main thing in common, they all crush horizontal mids like a dirty bitch. On the bright side, they're all unsafe on block. If you can, try to bait these moves out and punish whenever you can to discourage future use. 3P+K is left BT'ed when blocked and is strike punishable. You will have a rough time with this MU if you let Leifang abuse her crushes. Also please punish 46P whenever you block it (-10). It's 13 frames of bullshit :(.

Defense is the best offense. Leifang's strengths are defense but when she smells blood, she can run a lot of shit on you and you may not even know what just happened. OH's, parries, expert holds, FC pokes, crushes, all things to account for in this MU (along with a mean 64P in stun!). I reckon that this MU is 5-5. Both characters are very dangerous in their own ways. Christie is more dangerous on offense and Leifang is more dangerous on defense. Range is one of your friends in this MU, so it may pay off to be mindful of it. You need to make it hard for Leifang to use her dangerous tools on you and keeping her out definitely helps in that respect. Though if you can manage to back her into a corner, a good 66T can make her think twice about trying to hit those fancy pants Expert Mid P & K holds on you! Show the Tai Chi Chuan Genius who's boss!


Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Momiji (i10/i12/i12)

Looks like Christie gets a piece of the Shrine Maiden here! Similar to the Ayane MU, Christie wants to stay close to her opponent and Momiji wants to get away until she can CH something or whiff punish. My recommendation? Don't let the bitch breathe! :cool:

Here's a rundown of what Momiji may be using in close:
P = i10/ -2 on block/ -1 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
-> PP = ~i8/ -6 on block

K =
i12/ -11 on block/ +6 on hit/ 24 dmg (High K)
-> KK = ~i16/ -6 on block (HM) (Very delayable, Semi-safe)

= i12/ -7 on block/ +8 on hit/ 28 dmg (High K, Tracking, Semi-safe)
6P = i12/ -12 on block/ -12 on hit/ 17 dmg (Mid P)
-> 6PK = ~i16/ - 14 on block (MM) (Very delayable, Tech jump)
-> 6PP = ~i22/ -11 on block (MM) (Very delayable, Unsafe)

= i14/ -8 on block/ +4 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid K)
-> 3KP = ~i17/ -11 on block (MM) (Very delayable, Tracking)

= i14/ -5 on block/ +3 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Tracking, Safe)
2P = i12/ -5 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P, Safe)
1P = i17/ -10 on block/ -7 on hit/ 18 dmg (Low P, Tracking)
-> 1PP = ~i22/ -13 on block (LM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
-> 1P2K = ~i23/ -15 on block (LL) (Very delayable, Tracking, Unsafe)

= i13/ -9 on block/ -9 on hit/ 14 dmg (Mid P)
-> 3PP = ~i20/ -3 on block (MM) (Very delayable, Safe)

= i27/ +6 on block/ Blastback on hit/ 42 dmg on hit (Mid P, Tracking, +GB, Close Hit)
7K = i12/ -25 on block/ KND on hit/ 38 dmg (Mid K, -22 on block at tip, Tech jump, Unsafe to strikes that can reach and 6T)

In close range, Christie has the advantage thanks to her i9 jab and i11 Mid P. Momiji does have a much better 2P though which is i12 and +0 on hit. 6P or 5P immediately whenever 2P connects on NH. Generally close range combat isn't a problem but it's still a good rule of thumb to be mindful of 7K, which is almost exactly like Christie's own i12 7K. Momiji's 7K is now -25 as opposed to the retarded -14 + pushback it was prior to LR and has good low crush capability. Punish with 6T (no other throw can reach), or 8K for a lift stun.

PP8 & 3KP8 shenanigans can also be a nuisance though PP8~ free cancel and PP8P~ tend to be more common than PP8K (Since that leads into the Tenku Double Jump that is easy to deal with on block if you can fuzzy). PP8P, PP8PP PP8PK are all unsafe with the first two strings ending in High P's (The third string ender is a Mid K launcher). Along with PP8, 3KP8, etc., take heed of 9P random single jumps. I usually just block single or double jump attempts and try to spot a free cancel or a throw attempt (9P~Free cancel~Throw is VERY good). Also take note that 8P is an i14, -11 on block, High P, hi-crush CH launcher that Momiji can use to crush Christie's jabs and highs from neutral or R1F.

Momiji at Mid Range:

H+K = i12/ -7 on block/ +8 on hit/ 28 dmg (High K, Tracking, Semi-safe)
KK = i12/ -6 on block/ +21 on hit/ 24 + 11 dmg (HM) (Very delayable, Semi-safe)
3K = i14/ -8 on block/ +4 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid K)
-> 3KP =
~i17/ -11 on block/ +12 on hit/ 22 + 10 dmg (MM) (Very delayable, Tracking)

= i15/ -5 on block/ +6 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K, Safe)
2K = i14/ -9 on block /-3 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low K, Unsafe)
2H+K = i23/ -14 on block/ +11 on hit/ 24 dmg (Low K, -13 on block at tip, Tracking, Unsafe in close)
44K = i18/ -3 on block/ +26 on hit/ 25 dmg (Mid K, Transitions into BT, Safe)
44P = i15/ -10 on block/ +3 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Tracking)
66P = i15/ -5 on block, follow-up is -12 on block, tracks and launches on NH/ +7 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Safe, Throw 66PP on block please!)

Majority of Momiji's ranged pokes are safe on block (actually most of the shit she has is safe on block) so don't bother trying to throw punish anything unless the player plays like a random online Momiji that just chuck out 66PP, 6PP & 66K (In that case throw them to your heart's content!). Be wary of 2H+K and 2K being used as a ranged low poke, because they provide pretty good stuns on CH. They are also difficult to punish at range. Use 9KK, 236P, 7K or any low crush if you anticipate their use. H+K is also a very good keepout tool for Momiji. Try to stay in close when fighting Momiji because she's much more dangerous at range than Christie is, not to mention that Christie's pressure game is a lot better than Momiji's. I.e. She will need to find some sort of "escape" or opening to escape Christie's pressure. Don't give her any room to breathe!

Momiji at Long Range:

66P = i15/ -5 on block, follow-up is -12 on block, tracks and launches on NH/ +7 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Safe, Throw 66PP on block please!!!)
Running H+K = i20/+1 on block/ KND on hit/ 40 dmg (High K, +GB)

At range, Momiji's love to use Running H+K to get in for the +1 frame advantage. Thwart this with a nice high-crush such as 1PK or 2H+KP. For 66P you'll have to be more careful but just blocking it is fine for the most part. It's rarely worth it to get CH by 66PP for a big, annoying combo. Watch out also for random 9P hops too.

Some of Momiji's Whiff Punishers:

66PP = i15/ -12 on block/ Launch on NH/ 20 + 11 dmg (Mid P x2, Tracking, Unsafe, Throw on block please!!!!!)
6H+K = i26/ -10 on block/ +23 on hit/ 26 dmg (Mid K, SDS on NH, Unsafe)
236P = i20/ -12 on block/ Launch on NH/ 22 dmg (Mid P, Tracking, Unsafe)
66K = i18/ -12 on block /+33 on hit/ 24 dmg (Mid K, Tech Jump, CH launcher, Unsafe)
9K = i18/ -5 on block/ +19 on hit/ 26 dmg on hit (High K, Tracking, Tech Jump, Stumble Stun on NH, Safe)

Beware of these moves on CH (or NH really) because you're going for a ride if hit. Most are throw punishable and 9K is a high. Make sure that Christie is the one doing the punishing ;)! Actually be very careful of 9K, that move provides a dangerous stumble stun on NH that guarantees 66PP or 44P8 for a rather unfavourable launch combo. For dealing with Tenku stance, it's best to try and fuzzy guard the options on block (unless you know what the opponent may attempt reducing it to a 50/50). On hit, SE helps to create distance between you and the opponent. Though if you want to troll Momiji, JAK stance negates the whole mix-up even better than a fuzzy guard LOL. So yeah, Tenku is only dangerous to Christie during threshold.

The Christie/Momiji MU is interesting because both characters fight really well at all ranges. Overall I'd say it's 5-5 because of Momiji's safety, awesome pokes, and good whiff punishers. Christie equalizes this with a pretty good ranged game herself, a vastly superior pressure game and the JAK stance allowing her to SS a lot of Momiji's attacks including anything from Tenku stance (she'll be forced to use 4P, 44P~, and 1P~ more often). Generally Momiji would want to fight at range so that she can try to CH or whiff punish something to get her offensive momentum started whereas Christie would want to stay close and try and stay on the offensive as much as possible. As was mentioned earlier, don't give Momiji any room to breathe. Suffocate the Shrine Maiden!


Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Brad Wong (i12/i15/i14)

Milk vs. Booze. Which is the superior drink? The Brad MU is unfortunately a bit similar to the Ayane MU in the sense that for both, you need to be very mindful of what stance they're in, and need to find a way to keep their evasive manoeuvres in check.

For instance, when he's in Handstand Stance he has these moves available:

K = i11 Mid K's (can be followed up, up to "KKKK" or transition into Laydown with KK6K for eg.) (Safe on block)
P = i16 Low P that transitions into Laydown (-12 on block)
P+K = i13 Mid K launcher (-11 on block)
H+K = i21 Mid K stunner (Gut in OS, Limbo in CS) (Safe on block)
H+P = i11 High Grab

When Brad enters Handstand, you can jab him out of it immediately with a P or if you're swift you can try 6P since it will outdamage the HS K's (17 dmg vs. 10 dmg). In general you'll want to be fairly close to Brad though one of his weaknesses is ability to approach an opponent with strong keepout. When he enters the stance, and he has the advantage, prioritize Mid K Hold since all the dangerous options are Mid K's.

Brad's options from Laydown Stance (Laydown Feet Towards (LFT)):
P = i35 High P that cause a Faint Stun (Safe on block)
K = i16 Mid K launcher (-12 on block)
6K = i33 Mid K launcher (-11 on block)
H+K = i20 Low K that stays in LFT (-15 on block)
P+K = i23 Mid K that stays in LFT (-9 on block)
H~K = i67 Mid K that pops Brad up (-6 on block)
H+P = i17 OH

Moves from Reverse Laydown Stance (Laydown Heads Towards (LHT) opponent)

*Most moves are variants on the moves from normal LS*
P = i23 Mid P (Safe on block)
K = i16 Mid K (-10 on block)
6K = i38 Low K (-9 on block)
P+K = i21 Mid K launcher (-11 on block)
H+K = i25 Low K (-16 on block)
H+P = i15 OH
= i20 Low parry

When Brad goes into Laydown stance, it's essentially a 50/50 between a Mid K hold or some crouching action you'll have to take such as a Low throw to beat out the OH (or toss him out of LS outright), or a low block or low hold to beat H+K. If he transitions into LS off of 236P or Running P, H+KKK or (3)P immediately to knock him out of LS, and beware that he can parry lows such as 2P or 1P in Reverse Laydown Stance (HFT). He can also "Sidestep" LS to avoid linear lows such as 2P. Naturally LS is a "Super tech crouch" stance so it can crush horizontal mids, heavily reducing the effective moves against it. However Christie's H+K or (3)P can rape the stance in close. 4K can be surprisingly effective too. At range, use 8PP to smash Brad's laying down ass.

Brad's options from Backturned Stance:

P - i15 High P with followups
K - i18 High K (+2 on block)
H+K - i13 Mid K (-33 on block, big pushback)
P+K - i13 High P (Safe on block)
2K - i20 Low K that transitions into LS (-15 on block)
2P - i12 Low P (-12 on block & -11 on Normal hit; has a Low K & Mid K followup)
H+P - i6 Grab (can reset his opponent for +12 or blast them away)
6P+KP - i17 Mid P's (Safe on block)
4K - i16 Mid K (-12 on block)
6K - i15 Mid K with followups including a -12 on block Low ender
- i15 Mid P's (Safe on block)

When Brad is in Backturned Stance, your best bet is to prioritize crouching since the quicker moves are highs, and his BT 2P is deceptively fast at i12. If you block 2P, be sure to be mindful of the two followups: A low K that rolls away and a Mid K that is unsafe on block and punishable by low throw. Brad can use H+K to try and interrupt your attempt at offense and "roll" away. Just block this move and use the advantage to position yourself better. Beware of BT 4PP's sitdown on hit. The move is also only -6 on block. BT H+P is one of Brad's most dangerous grabs, due to its ability to reset his opponent and grant him +12 while remaining in BT stance. In fact Brad has a few "Reset grabs"

BT H+P =
Grants +12 @i6

4 H+P = Grants +11 @i10

Behind H+P = Grants +8 @i5

If you get hit by 4 H+P, Behind H+P is guaranteed. A big part of Brad's gameplan is to mix-up his opponent, then reset them when they get flustered. Try to keep this reset momentum from building.

At R1F, Brad can hold his own deceptively well due to the many stances he can enter before the round starts. From neutral Brad's technically a i12/i15/i14, but at R1F Brad can gain access to his faster moves. Let's recap: In HS, Brad gains an i11 Mid K; In LS he gains an OH and a Mid K launcher with a lot of hit priority, and in BT stance he gains an i12 Low P and an i13 Mid K "interrupter". If Brad is in HS, jab or 6P immediately. If Brad is in LS, 2P or 7K immediately or back away (preferable). If Brad is in BT, be mindful of BT2P and 6PPPP him in the back for a guaranteed BT combo.

When in doubt, you can try to play a ranged game with Brad, because he'll need to get creative with how he approaches. He'll likely try 236P, Running P, or 66K (ranged Low K). He likely won't try 236P from mid range or closer so look out for 66K, since that's usually a go to choice for opening up the opponent. By and large, Christie beats out Brad at ranged neutral, though not by much but he can still mix-up you up if he's at the right range. Watch out for his crane stance (DHO) because it contains moves with good priority such as H+KPP/H+KK and an OH. If he enters DHO from close range, jab or 6P immediately, since his fastest attack is i12. DHO 4K is also quite fast at i13. Just like with HS, either stay very close to Brad or out of the DHO H+K~~~ range. Most attacks in DHO are safe on block .

Brad's options in Crane Stance (Dokuritsu-Ho (DHO))

= i12 High P
= i15 High K
i41 Mid K followed by two Mid P's
H+KK = i41 Mid K followed by a High K
H+P =
i19 OH
4K =
i13 Mid K
= i19 Mid P launcher
6P = i16 Mid P with followups
66P = i20 Mid P CB

The optimal range to fight Brad at is around Mid range or slightly further away to reduce the effectiveness of his mix-up game. When in close, from neutral, Christie pokes much faster than Brad, however he has numerous ways to deal with faster characters in close such as 4P for crushing highs, 4P2 or(8) for crushing highs and sidestepping and of course Laydown Stance for heavily reducing an opponent's offensive options. Your goal will be to find ways to knock Brad out of his stances and keeping his BS in check. 6PP, H+K, (3)P, and 4K will help you do the job. 7K'ing here or there isn't a terrible option too due to how slow Brad's general pokes are.

Overall Brad is a solid character with dangerous mix-ups and resets. However, Christie can be a huge pain in the ass for Brad so I reckon this MU is a 6-4 in Christie's favour due to how well Christie can outpoke Brad forcing him on the defensive, and her effectiveness in knocking Brad out of his stances. Plus, Christie also dominates Brad in the neutral game effectively limiting his offense when he doesn't have the advantage. Beating Brad is based almost entirely on knowing how to deal with his stances and punishing unsafe transitions & moves. If Brad can't gain momentum to run his mix-ups, he's not going to win. Don't let him get in your head!


Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Helena (i11/i12/i14)

Alright here it is folks! The showdown that everyone's been waiting for! The battle between arguably the two biggest pain in the asses to each other: Christie vs. Helena. The two so-called "queens of DOA" go at it here in this brutal fight to the death! Lol, well not really, but you get the idea. These two characters are very common at high levels of DOA5 play and there is a good reason for that. These two characters excel at offensive pressure, stun-manipulation, high & low-crushing, and evasion. Success depends on whoever is able to effectively get their offensive momentum going first or whoever does the better job of thwarting their opponents attempts to get their offensive pressure started. It's not an easy battle, but there can only be one winner...

Helena's General Pokes

P = i11/ -3 on block/ -3 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
= i12/ -14 on block/ -12 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
= i12/ -9 on block/ +6 on hit/ 24 dmg (High K)
4K = i14/ -15 on block/ +7 on hit/ 23 dmg (Tracking High K)
= i15/ -10 on block/ +2 on hit/ 23 dmg (Mid K)
= i14/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
= i14/ -13 on block/ -11 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low K)
= i14/ - 5 on block/ +3 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P)
1P = i17/ -13 on block/ -11 on hit/ 15 dmg (Tracking Low P, Transitions into BT, Strong Hi-crush)
FC 3P = i13/ -13 on block/ -8 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Mid crush)
4P = i15/ -17 on block/ -16 on hit/ 18 dmg (Tracking Mid P, Transitions into BT, Strong Hi-crush)
P+K = i18/ -15 on block/ +30 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid P, Strong Hi-crush)

In terms of neutral poke speed Helena's around "average" to slightly "above average". Her i11 5P is pretty bad and deals only 10 damage as opposed to the 11 damage i11 jabs usually deal. However her i12 5K is amazing and can be very dangerous. Helena's 5K string has two follow-ups in the form of 5KK & 5KKK. This is a fast High K-Mid K-High K string that can be used to lock you down and throw you on the defense thanks to the powerful delay & quick speed between kicks. The second kick being a mid makes it tough to duck under this string compared to most "KKK" strings. You'll generally have to guard it standing and try to anticipate when Helena ends the string. She is unsafe after any part of the 5K string is finished allowing for a 6T throw punish. There is an alternate string to 5KKK in the form of 3KKK that looks almost identical but starts as a mid kick. The string is essentially a fast Mid K-High K-Mid K string that opens with an i15 linear mid kick and ends with a mid kick that is -11 on block. It's tricky at times to tell if you're dealing with 5KKK or 3KKK, so on block you can wait it out and punish accordingly (look out for delays & free cancels). If you get hit by any part of the 5KKK or 3KKK string, you will be stunned and put into critical stun. If you get stunned, slow escape efficiently to limit Helena's follow-up options, which are fairly ludicrous any way. 5KKK & 3KKK are linear attacks, but the strings retrack very well and can stuff sidestep attempts easily including JAK stance.

To start Helena's offense, she will usually try to utilize some sort of hi-crush manoeuvre such as FC 3P~, 1P~, 4P~, P+K~. These are the moves that Helena will use to try and hi-crush your attacks to set-up powerful stun mix-ups. Be particularly weary of FC 3P, a powerful i13 mid P that has the ability to crush highs very well and even some mids. A common string used is FC 3P4P, which starts with the FC 3P poke then transitions into bokuho (BKO) stance via "Flappy Hands". FC 3P4P stuns very well and sets you up for a strong BKO mix-up. If you block, FC 3P4P, Helena will be at -4 in BKO stance, meaning that you can get a free attack against her. Helena's fastest attack out of BKO is BKO P at i11 and 10 damage. Any attack i15 or faster and dealing more than 10 damage will beat out anything tries to attack with forcing her to either exit the stance and block or try to utilize the BKO Duck. Christie's 2P is i14 so it'll beat out anything Helena tries out of BKO including the repulsive BKO Duck. 6P is also a decent option because Helena will be forced to either try to duck all 4 potential strikes in the form of 6PPPP or exit the stance and block the string. Of course you should free cancel somewhere but the point is to keep Helena on the defensive where she doesn't like to be.

General pokes from Bokuho Stance:

BKO P = i11/ -3 on block/ -2 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
BKO K = i12/ -13 on block/ +35 on hit/ 28 dmg (High K, Unsafe)
BKO 6P = i12/ -12 on block/ +9 on hit/ 12 dmg (Mid P)
BKO 2K = i19/ 10 on block/ +13 on hit/ 22 dmg (Tracking Low K, Unsafe)
BKO 4P = i14/ -5 on block/ -4 on hit/ 16 dmg (Mid P, Transitions into BT)

Launchers from Bokuho Stance:

BKO P+K = i19 (Mid P, Transitions into BT, High launcher, Unsafe)
BKO 6K = i16 (Mid K, Has a low follow-up that stuns and transitions into BKO, BKO 4PK also launches)
BKO H+K = i18 (High K, Transitions into BKO, Unsafe)
BKO 3P+K = i18 (Mid P, Unsafe)
BKO 6PPK = i12 (Mid P x2, High K, Transitions into BKO, Unsafe)
BKO PPK = i11 (High P x2, Mid K 2-in-1, Unsafe)
BKO H+P = i12 (Launcher throw, Helena's highest damage throw)

If Helena's in BKO stance, chances are you've been stunned by an attack that has transitioned into BKO. If you block a BKO entry transition, Helena will be at negative frames in a stance where she is unable to guard and is forced to either attempt a BKO duck, exit the stance and block or try to "out-strike" you. The most common negative frames for a BKO entry transition is -4 or worse. The exception is 236P+K which is +1 on guard. If Helena is in BKO at -4 on block, your safest response is to 2P, though you can try forcing her on the defensive with 6PP~. Sidestepping is also an ok option against BKO since a lot of BKO attacks don't track. Though, any strings like BKO 4PKP, or BKO 6PPK will retrack into you. While Helena is in BKO, prioritize BKO K, BKO 6P~ & BKO 2K in terms of attacks to look out for. It's also good to be mindful of BKO PP2K and BKO 6KK. BKO can also be low thrown if you get the opportunity to do so safely.

Now onto the shatterer of dreams, the dreaded BKO Duck. BKO~22 is the move that makes Helena's opponents chuck their controllers at the wall. This move crouches more shit then Brad Wong's laydown stances. BKO Duck essentially ducks all highs and horizontal mids, and hell, some vertical mids too! Basically any mid that doesn't hit grounded can be ducked including Christie's 7K & H+K~ for example. To beat out BKO Duck, you need to use a low, a "true mid" that hits grounded, or a low throw. Low offensive holds work great against BKO, but unfortunately Christie doesn't possess any. When in doubt, just 2P. If you can find ways to discourage Helena's BKO Duck, you can make this MU just that more easier for Christie.

Helena can be very dangerous in close if she gets on the offense with momentum, but unfortunately for her, her range sucks. Fortunately for Christie, this serves as an opportunity to halt Helena's attempts at offense through effective keepout, zoning, and essentially abusing her shit neutral game. When fighting at mid range, use 2H+K~, H+K~, 4K~, and 6PP~ to keep Helena at bay and limit her opportunities to get an offense started. At range Helena may try to 66KPP, or 66P you. 66P is safe on block, and is quite fast but its range is a bit on the poor side. The move doesn't provide much reward on hit for Helena either. 66KPP is a Low K-Low P-Mid P string with good range despite being a little on the slow side. This string low crushes very well, then high crushes very well ending in a chargeable guard break. The string is holdable on reaction so be vigilant. Take note that Helena can also use 66K2 to transition in BKO instead of completing the highly telegraphed string. Helena may also try run up 5KK~ or 3KK~ to try and poke you while fishing for a stun. Intercept with the above mentioned pokes to thwart these attempts. 6PP~'s a good go-to intercept. Helena may also try to enter BKO with FC 3P4P to attempt to "forego" the neutral game (though it's generally risky for her to do that regularly). The string is all mid punches and follow-ups in the string are holdable on reaction on block or hit. If the string gets blocked, 2P to stuff all her options if you're unsure what she'll do.

Helena does have numerous Back-Turned stance options, but the main ones to note are BT 4P & BT 4K which are i12 Mid Ps and Mid Ks respectively. Most transitions on block into BT will leave Helena at negative allowing you to stuff her attempts at offense with 6PP~ or 5PP~. 6PPPP is guaranteed if it hits the opponent in the back, even on NH. If Helena enters BT'ed via a CH 4P or CH 1P for instance, you'll have to be patient on the defensive and try to note what she's trying to follow-up with. 1PPK is a Low-Low-Low string that is unsafe on block and holdable on reaction. 4PP~ is a Mid P-High P string with 4PPP as an unsafe Mid P ender or 4PPKK as an unsafe Low K ender. If you're stunned, you'll obviously have to attempt a critical hold to escape the predicament. Learning to hold the 1P & 4P strings on reaction can prove quite useful when dealing with Helena.

Also take heed of Helena's reset throws. Helena's throw game in general is average damage-wise, but her reset throws compliment her stun game. The throws to watch out for are:

214H+P i12/ +9+BT, Transitions into BKO/ 30 dmg
BT H+P i15/ +9 +BT/ 15 dmg
BKO H+P i12/ 25 dmg+

The Christie vs. Helena MU is probably one of the most famous MU's in DOA5 thanks to the potency and popularity of both characters. Overall I'd rate the MU a 5.5-4.5 (5-5 if rounded) in Christie's favour due to how well she can put Helena on the defensive along with "interruption" ability thanks to her i9 5P & i11 6P. The biggest nuisance in this MU for Christie is dealing with the BKO Duck, but if you can keep that in check, then this MU will generally swing in Christie's favour. That is of course as long as you're not letting your ass get stun reset all day. Make sure that Christie's the one doing all the stunning, ok? Good!


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Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Rachel (i11/i13/i14)

i can share some of my experience with playing rachel and playing against rachel as christie.

a rachel player's greatest bane is the delay ability of christie's strings which can get too ridiculous at times . but the greatest advantage rachel has over i think any character of the roster is her monstrous CH stun . one CH stun is all rachel needs then it's just a matter of correct read on ur part because good luck with slow escaping against her .

rachel in neutral will try to open you with anyone of these:-
1.PPT or 66T . this move is actually her only tool which can actually force christie to respect her because her 66k is only a +1 GB and that means nothing against her . same goes for her 2p's +1 advantage . ppl will actually use the raw version (66T) after your semi safe/safe moves because that OH can become quite potent even against something as small as -4 or -5 . and if u get CH or hi CH OH she gets guaranteed combo.
2. 4pp2p . the 2nd and 3rd punches are extremely delayble AND they are all TRACKING mid p's so if u try to use JAK or SS , eat that juicy crumple stun to the ribs but it is heavily punishable if u duck it .
3. 2H+K . this kick also comes out from her punch string and by itself has on okayish speed of 17 frames . on NH this is also a +7 stun after which i wouldn't hit a button if i were you .

christie's string delay is no new revelation but rachel's string delay is quite powerful as well . it's good enough to actually give u legit tick throw window and momma's throws hurt , seriously .as far the question goes about throw punishing rachel , she is surprisingly quite safe and christie is no grappler so u can fuzzy -7 against her easily .

this was just to highlight some small points that rachel players use to initiate her stun game .

ironic enough , i think that both characters in the end will rely on one thing to beat the other as well save themselves and that is a SOLID DEFENSE. because both christie and rachel players get jumpy if they don't get their stun soon.

Credit: @Tenro
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Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Bass (i13/i15/i17)

Christie vs. Bass. Fast buttons vs. Slow buttons. Sounds bad on paper, but Bass is one of those characters that can quickly show you that slow, yet powerful buttons, can always be a threat, even to the fastest of characters such as the speed demon Christie. Don't get cocky now, and never discount the power that the big guy possesses!

Here's a rundown of Bass' pokes:

P = i13/ -2 on block/ +0 on hit/ 13 dmg (High P)
6P = i15/ -4 on block/ -3 on hit/ 24 dmg (Tracking Mid P)
K = i14/ +2 on block/ -1 on hit/ 33 dmg (High K +GB)
6K = i14/ -10 on block/ +14 on hit/ 26 dmg (Mid K)
2P = i17/ -7 on block/ -5 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
2K = i16/ -10 on block/ +0 on hit/ 12 dmg (Low K, Unsafe)
P+K = i12/ -8 on block/ +26 on hit/ 26 dmg (High P, Unsafe)
3K = i15/ -7 on block/ +5 on hit/ 26 dmg (Mid K)
1K = i18/ -12 on block/ -6 on hit/ 18 dmg (Low K)
1P = i22/ -16 on block/ +12 on hit/ 26 dmg (Tracking Low P)
4P = i17/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 16 dmg (Tracking Mid P)

Strings off of main pokes

PP2P (HHL) (Tracking, Unsafe)

6PP (MM) (Tracking, -GB)
6PK (MH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

6KP (MM) (Unsafe)
6KK (ML) (Unsafe)

2PP (LH) (Unsafe)

3KP (MM)
3KK (MH)

1KP (LM) (Unsafe)

1PP (LM) (Tracking, -GB)
1PP+K (LH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

4PPP (MMM) (Tracking, +GB)
4PPP+K (MMH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

A good thing to note in this MU is knowing what's advantage on block and what's negative. Like most characters, Bass is usually slightly unsafe if you were to block a string ender, however he is safe on any of his "negative" Guard Breaks for the most part and is safe on strings such as variations of 3KP (only -2 on block) or variations of 9K like 3KK (only -4 on block). Since Bass is so much slower than Christie (and more than 2/3's of the cast), you can confidently poke back at him since he'll have to respect your speed and striking ability. Your i9 jab will be quite handy for interruption too. Be sure to punish 6KP (-11 on block) every time you block it since it is a go to string to set up Bass' brutal oki game. Punishing P+K would also help out in this MU to discourage Bass' fastest poke and a key CH stun tool. 1P/1PP is the main low attack to look out for (along with 1K) due to its instant hi-crush capability and tracking. Try to hold the 2nd hit on reaction, but be wary of 1PP+K as a "mix-up attempt" (which is unsafe like P+K). Discouraging Bass' 1P~ mix-up shenanigans (1P~3K, or 1P~33P, etc.), can put a thorn in his low game if you can take away this tool.

Bass' Positive Guard Breaks

K = i14/ +2
4PPP = i17/ +6
33PP = i16/ +5
2H+K = i27/ +1
66P+K = i19/ +0 (Can be + advantage if tossed further out, thus manipulating the frames on block)
8H+K = i20/ +2
214P = i27/ +3
66K = i18/ +3
236P = i20/ +4
41236P+K = i21/ +6
7PP = i22/ +10 when fully charged
1P+K = i40/ +6 (+24 when fully charged)
7P+K = i40/ +16 when PB is active and charged

Probably the biggest key to working this MU is knowing which GB's are + and which are -. Good GB's like 66K or 33PP you have to watch out for, but feel free to poke back after blocking "fraudulent" GB's like 6PP or 1PP. After you block a positive GB, your primary response should be to continue blocking, however you can also use Christie's 5P~ or 6P~ to try and discourage most of Bass' follow-up options after a GB. The downside of continuous blocking is leaving your self open to Bass' fast OH's such as 66T or 41236T. Using hi-crush moves such as 2P, 2H+K or 1P can be a nice deterrent to Bass' highs and throws forcing him to have to try and continue pressure with a mid such as 6P, 4P, 6K or 3K for example. His go to lows, 1P & 1K aren't particularly fast and can be out-poked by 2P under most circumstances (Bass' 2PP is Low-High so the second hit is crouch-able). For the strings that lead into GB's you can generally hold the last hit if you're sharp and watching out for it. The main X-factor in this MU that Bass has to respect even when he's at significant advantage is Christie's JAK stance, which can sidestep Bass' linear moves, thus forcing him to use tracking moves such as 4PP~. At light advantage such as around +3 or less for Bass, you can attempt to "out-poke" majority of his options with Christie's i9 jab.

Bass' Offensive Holds techniques

66T = i16/ 42 dmg
41236T = i18/ 45 dmg
41236T (Charged) = i32/ 68 dmg
41236T (Charged) ~23698T~82T = i37/ 90 dmg
8T = i32/ 52 dmg (Jumping OH)
3T = i10/ 52 dmg (Low OH)
BT T = i10/ +15 on hit
BT 2T = i10/ 30 dmg/ +10 on hit (Low OH)

Once Bass has you on the defensive he will try to work in his OH's into his battle strategy. You don't really want that. Use 2P's, 2H+K's and 1P's against OH attempts (OH's can still catch hi-crush mids such as FC 3P). Though if you know he'll OH you, you can always throw him with something like 63214T for 87 dmg on Hi-counter! Big note also that Bass' Low OH can stop JAKs in their tracks!

Likely the largest equalizer in this MU is this throw: 6T. i6/ 50 dmg/ +10 on hit. Any time Bass blocks something about -7 or worse, you're likely eating a 6T for your troubles. All of sudden, moves such as 214P become notably unsafe. When you have Bass on the defensive, he'll be looking to start his offense with this throw. If you get hit by it, you'll have to eat Bass' mix-ups. You can attempt to fuzzy guard or JAK afterwards though his follow-up attack speeds can vary a fair bit based on how he desires to continue the attack (i.e. a GB, an OH, a quick strike like 6K or he can throw out another 6T to annoy you and reset the situation). If he's not following up with quick strikes like 6K or 6P, for example, then you can get away with occasionally 2Ping him.

The other strong equalizer is Bass' Pick-up, Grounded 2T. i7/ +13 on hit. Anytime Bass scores a hard knockdown, he will generally try to "Pick you up" with 2T if you're nearby, or not teching the knockdown. If you get grabbed by this, the same rules apply like if you got hit by 6T. Try to predict his striking and OH pattern to know when to take defensive action, or when to attack with something like 2P.

Once you have Bass at mid-range or further, he's gunna try to get in on you with attacks such as 66P+K, 6H+K, 66K or run-up 3K for example. None of the attacks he'll approach with are advantage on block (66P+K is +0 which is, like, -5 for Bass anyway, though can gain more advantage if he connects on your block from further away), except one, so you can attack after blocking anything. That is except 66K which is +3 and leaves Bass BT'ed. If you block 66K be very wary of BT T, an OH that sets up very damaging combos. He also has a low BT OH if you choose to crouch or JAK after blocking 66K. In this situation you may have to guess a little but the advantage is only +3 so your 2P, 6P or 5P, if you're feeling frisky, may be able to stuff quite a bit of options. Your main focus will be to look out for the BT OH and try to note what follow-ups he may use (6K, 6P & 4P tend to be likely follow-up pokes after a +GB). If you're fighting him at mid-range, poke with 4K, H+K, 6PP or 2H+K.

By and large I actually think the Bass MU is closer than may appear on paper, and not as morbidly dismal as some people may make it out to be due to how well Bass can punish Christie, one of the more unsafe characters in the cast. Bass' 6T is always a threat ready to punish any costly mistakes. I'd say the MU is around 6-4 Christie mainly because of her significant speed & pressure advantage, though the main tipping factor in the MU comes from Christie's interruption capability with her i9 jab and the ability to limit Bass' options on offense through utilization of JAK. Though Bass' weight will limit your damage somewhat, especially with a lot of Christie's damage coming from juggles. Christie being a Middleweight also allows Bass to get solid damage off of his juggles. But that doesn't really change the fact that Christie will be hitting Bass much more often than he's hitting you if you can keep your poking, spacing and footsies in check. However, as soon as Bass hits that 6T or gets a Pick-up, the tables can be quickly turned and a lot of hurt will follow. Do not let that happen! One of the worst things you can do when facing Bass is underestimating how much of a threat he really is to majority of the cast, and Christie is no exception.


Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Eliot (i10/i14/i15)

"MILK PLEASE!" Sorry, I couldn't resist :oops:! The mature Christie gets to play with the aspiring upstart Eliot in this match-up here! Eliot is a dodgy one because you don't see him get utilized that often and when he's throwing strings out, it looks like he's just flailing random moves at all hit levels. As you can guess, Eliot excels at making you wonder just what the fuck he's doing when he's on the offense in close. To be fair, Christie excels at that too, but Eliot has slightly more string variation to worry about in contrast. If you don't know how Eliot's strings work, he will run rings around you. It's cliché, but knowing is half the battle! Oh, and Eliot has a 10-hit string!

Eliot's Neutral Pokes

P = i10/ -1 on block/ -1 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
6P = i14/ -12 on block/ -11 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
K = i13/ -10 on block/ -1 on hit/ 20 dmg (High K)
6K = i21/ -10 on block/ +19 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K)
2P = i15/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
2K = i15/ -7 on block/ -2 on hit/ 12 dmg (Low K, Unsafe)
3K = i14/ -8 on block/ +5 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K)
1K = i18/ -9 on block/ -7 on hit/ 15 dmg (Low K)
1P = i17/ -19 on block/ -18 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low P)
4P = i15/ -9 on block/ -8 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
4K = i16/ -6 on block/ +1 on hit/ 24 dmg (Tracking Mid K)
6PP = i15/ -13 on block/ +21 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid P)
P+K = i18/ -9 on block/ -6 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P)

Strings off of Main Pokes

PPP (HHM) (Unsafe)
PP46P (HHM) (-GB)
PPK (HHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP2P (HHL) (Unsafe)
PP4P (HMH) (Unsafe)

6PPP (MHM) (Unsafe)
6PPK (MHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
6PP2P (MHL) (Unsafe)

KK (HH) (Tracking)
K2P (HL) (Unsafe)


6KK (MH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
6K2KP (MLM) (Unsafe)


3KP (MM) (Unsafe)

1KPP (LHM) (Unsafe)
1KPK (LHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
1KP46P (LHM) (-GB)
1K4PP (LMH) (Unsafe)
1KP2P (LHL) (Unsafe)

1PPPPPK (LMHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
1PPPPP2P (LMHMHL) (Unsafe)
1PPK (LMM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
1PP2K (LML) (Unsafe)

4PPPPP (MHMHM) (Unsafe)
4PPPPK (MHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
4PPPP2P (MHMHL) (Unsafe)

66PPPPP (MHMHM) (Unsafe)
66PPPPK (MHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
66PPPP2P (MHMHL) (Unsafe)
66P6P (MM) (Unsafe)
66P46P (MM) (-GB)

P+KPPPPK (MMHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
P+KP6P (MMM) (Unsafe)
P+KP46P (MMM) (-GB)

The Dreaded 10-hit String

Strings, so many strings... The number one thing to fighting Eliot is to not allow him to overwhelm you with his strings. In particular try to familiarize yourself with his 1P, 4P, 66P, and P+K strings because those are the lengthiest ones. Most strings tend to alternate between mid and high strikes. And technically on paper, majority of the strings are unsafe on block, but he'll have to finish the string first, which naturally isn't that often. Take note also that most strings have either a Mid P, Tracking High K, or Low P ender. They're all unsafe if blocked. When on the defensive against Eliot, be patient and look for an opportunity to 2P/2H+K under a high strike. The strikes are linear so you can attempt a JAK if you can anticipate where he may try a free cancel. If he finishes a string, throw punish accordingly. Eliot's only real tracking options involve either High K string enders, 4K or 1PPK, so side step is an option. Note that his 46P's are safe, yet negative guard break string enders.

Eliot at Mid-Long Range

66P+K = i25/ +4 on block/ Knockback on hit/ 40 dmg (Mid P, +GB)
236K = i27/ +3 on block/ Knockback on hit/ 52 dmg (High K, +GB)
2H+K = i23/ -12 on block/ +1 on hit/ 20 dmg/ (Low K with follow-up)

At range, Eliot is likely to try and get in with either 66P+K or 236K. He may also utilize the sneaky 2H+K low that stuns on hit and has a Mid P follow-up. 9KK or 7K if you anticipate a 2H+K. 66P+K & 236K are a bit of a 50/50 between a Mid P & and a High K. If you block either, Eliot will be at advantage, however his mid & low attacks are a bit on the slow side so you usually can sneak in a 2P or a P if you can anticipate that he may attempt a slower follow-up. 66P+K also pushes back quite a bit too, so you can attempt a backdash as well after that to further the space between you and Eliot. However, by the themselves, both 66P+K & 236K are reactable.

There isn't really an optimal range to fight Eliot at because his strings can be overwhelming in close and his ranged options aren't exactly weak. Christie has an advantage up close, however Eliot's ranged game is better. Overall it would be better to fight Eliot in close range and attempt to keep him from getting his offense started by suppressing him with your faster pokes. Whenever you CH Eliot though, such as with 6PP, you can make him feel the pain from your juggles since he is just a lightweight (whereas Christie is a middleweight) despite being rather slow in neutral. He does have an i9 strike in 7P however, though it doesn't really grant him much advantage, along with pushing you away from him. It's simply a "get-off-me" move for him. 7P does also out-prioritizes Christie's 5P. Note also that Eliot does possess useful parries along with his mid holds effectively being "parries" that can start his offense. Be mindful of how you attempt to suppress Eliot, because his parries & 7P are key tools that he uses to halt the momentum of his adversaries.

Also be careful of 236T & 214T. 236T is an i12 launcher throw and 214T is a 45 dmg, i10 reset throw that grants +10 advantage for Eliot. When Eliot has you locked down, he will try to hit one of these two throws. Make regular use of 2P's, 6P's and 5P's to discourage their use. If he's nailing you with strings, SE the stuns, since his strings in particular are quite vulnerable to being SE'ed then blocked; then try to note when he's trying to throw you.

All things considered, I'd likely say this MU is 5.5-4.5 (5-5 if rounded) in Christie's favour due to her much better neutral poking speed, strong evasive tools, and general ability to get on the offensive first. However, this MU isn't a walk in the park for either character. Eliot's toolset is surprisingly effective at countering Christie's toolset making this MU a lot more even than may be seemed on paper. Basically, don't let Eliot mindfuck you with his strings (remember they usually go mid-high-mid-high, etc.), reset throws, and parries\holds along with being mindful of his 2H+K . But as implied earlier, knowing is half the battle and knowledge is power :cool:! Show this rowdy teenager who's the one in control of the milk supply!
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