Concerning Juggles

[LunaKage]

Did he... did he just say he never felt the need to use combos in BLAZBLUE?

Were you only fighting against Toddlers? Actually I take that back, because even toddlers understand that BlazBlue is one of the most combo heavy fighters out there. If you don't do any kind of combo off of ANY hit, there's a good chance you're not getting damage, positioning, or oki. Hell even Hakumen needs to do combos, and his C attacks do 1k per hit.

Saying you never felt the NEED to do combos in BB, implies that you were fighting only the bottom of the barrel players, or maybe just the CPU, or perhaps you picked Noel and just hammered on the D button and called it a day, either way, you step in the ring with even the most low level of competitive BlazBlue players, and you wont get far at all without using combos.

 

[Argentus]

No, that's not what I'm saying lol. I'm saying that people would take that as a different mindset & view you as a scrub (not calling you one, just telling you like it is, hardly ever use the word) because of you saying that "juggles are dumb & they shouldn't exist". That's good that you're punishing by doing basic shit in fighters against scrubs getting hate mail in the process. That's fine, but don't complain if the person that you're fighting takes the time & extend their craft with learning the juggles through their setups that does tons of damage when developing a good gameplan. Back to studying

Lol I've just learned that when someone tries to cry scrub, it means they've been backed into a corner. Basically, when they start trying to call me scrub, it means I've won.

You lost me at "King of Fighters" bud... KoF is HEAVY on juggles... hell.. there's even their own version of Yun's Genei-Jin Ultra for juggles. This is how i can tell you don't know what your talking about.

I said I don't need/use juggles. Not that the game doesn't have them.

Pay attention lol.

Did he... did he just say he never felt the need to use combos in BLAZBLUE?

Were you only fighting against Toddlers? Actually I take that back, because even toddlers understand that BlazBlue is one of the most combo heavy fighters out there. If you don't do any kind of combo off of ANY hit, there's a good chance you're not getting damage, positioning, or oki. Hell even Hakumen needs to do combos, and his C attacks do 1k per hit.

Saying you never felt the NEED to do combos in BB, implies that you were fighting only the bottom of the barrel players, or maybe just the CPU, or perhaps you picked Noel and just hammered on the D button and called it a day, either way, you step in the ring with even the most low level of competitive BlazBlue players, and you wont get far at all without using combos.

I used makoto and focused on feints and punishers. She's remarkably good at it with her myriad ducks, bobs, and weaves.

So no, didn't need to do combos lol. You can get far enough by just hitting people, don't need to combo. Closest I got was doing her megaton punch on a wall bouncing opponent after hitting them with her projectile. And I wouldn't really call two hits a combo or juggle. And even that's rarely as I prefer to punish a rushing opponent with supers, rather than use setups.


You can make as many excuses as you want but you don't need juggles or combos to damage lol. You can just hit them, same result, just a little more effort.

(Could a been worse. Could a used tager or hakumen, who really don't need juggles...)

Now I picked up new Bb on vita, using bullet, apparently worst in the game...nope, still don't need juggles.




For the record not pretending to be some super awesome elite player, just saying that punish and crushes match juggles in damage, so its not like juggles are some kind of necessity to win.

 

[Nereus]

I said I don't need/use juggles. Not that the game doesn't have them.

Pay attention lol.

Oh i have been paying attention. When you say you don't need to use juggles in KoF.. it's pretty obvious you don't know what your talking about. Good luck trying to beat JuiceBox Abel with "no juggles" LMAO

 

[Argentus]

Oh i have been paying attention. When you say you don't need to use juggles in KoF.. it's pretty obvious you don't know what your talking about. Good luck trying to beat JuiceBox Abel with "no juggles" LMAO

Apparently you think normals, supers, specials and grapples don't do damage.

And you honestly try to say that I'm the one who doesn't know what they are talking about lol.

 

[LunaKage]

Yeah you definitely fought the worst of the worst. Makoto is actually the worst character in the game, and that's even when she's doing her good shit. Saying you don't need combos just because you beat some scrubby mashers who ALSO don't know combos, doesn't mean that you can actually survive without them, and if you're the type who just wants to stick to casual play, then why are you on a competitive forum anyway?

 

[Argentus]

Yeah you definitely fought the worst of the worst. Makoto is actually the worst character in the game, and that's even when she's doing her good shit. Saying you don't need combos just because you beat some scrubby mashers who ALSO don't know combos, doesn't mean that you can actually survive without them, and if you're the type who just wants to stick to casual play, then why are you on a competitive forum anyway?

Lol that right there is what I love about wannabe elitists.

You have no actual counterargument so you just start saying that everyone sucks with literally no basis for the accusation lol.

And I'm here because its a DOA site. And I do want to be competitive. Without relying on juggles.

Also if I recall, didn't Makoto have to be nerfed or something like that? I don't look things like that up but j remember hearing it somewhere.







Regardless, this all just proves my point.

Juggles are simply an option, another tool, but there are people like yourself who think its the only concievable way to play, and as experience has taught me, that's simply not true. Its just the easiest way to play.

Which is why the fgc hasn't been able to evolve at all, in my opinion. Too many games, too many players are hung up on the notion that a fighting game HAS to have juggles to be a real fighter, when the reality is almost the total opposite, and its hurting the fgc due to that blanket mindset creating a very closed minded community.



Remember, my only real vice is how boring I find juggles. The rest is just the mindset of the community that I'm commenting on.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Classic fighting game without juggles, just as recommendation for those who don't like them:
http://lf2.net/

 

[Nereus]

Yeah you definitely fought the worst of the worst. Makoto is actually the worst character in the game, and that's even when she's doing her good shit. Saying you don't need combos just because you beat some scrubby mashers who ALSO don't know combos, doesn't mean that you can actually survive without them, and if you're the type who just wants to stick to casual play, then why are you on a competitive forum anyway?

Luna... we're on a forum to where the casual thread is more looked than the character forums bro. It's sad but true. I love this site just as much as the next guy does, but this is a perfect example of what im saying.

 

[Nereus]

Apparently you think normals, supers, specials and grapples don't do damage.

And you honestly try to say that I'm the one who doesn't know what they are talking about lol.

Oh they do damage... but unless you do juggles in KoF or Blazblue or any fighter in general... your not going to go far in terms of competitive play. I bet you complain about Jacky juggles and how long he can juggle you even though he NEEDS to do that to get the good damage.

 

[Argentus]

Classic fighting game without juggles, just as recommendation for those who don't like them:
http://lf2.net/

Or power stone or dbz or smash or ufc or wrestling or boxing or naruto (arguably) or even street fighter three, to an extent.

Quite a few fighters that showcase how unneccesary juggles are, honestly. But fgc seems to reject any game where you can't just do memorized combos without interruption...(not that those games don't have their own problems, but speaking just in terms of juggles)

Or the vocal minority does, at least.

 

[LunaKage]

So I'm an elitest now? I don't have a counter argument? My counter argument is that you wont be able to beat a good player without using combos, and it's true, and I challenge you to prove me wrong. I'd challenge you myself but I don't play the vita, if you ever got the PS3 version, I'd be happy to face you myself.

Also, since you decided to resort to name calling, I'll no longer take anything you say seriously, since I personally held back all of the shit I wanted to call you, and will continue to do so, I'll also no longer be monitoring this thread. Good luck on your quest to beat people who matter without utilizing a part of the game's mechanics, I'll be sure to remember your name so I can look out for you when you're getting top 8 at evo.

 

[Desjah Rei]

And I'm here because its a DOA site. And I do want to be competitive. Without relying on juggles.

Sooooo......This means me as a user of Phase-4..I could win without her teleports for juggles and win in casual matches..even more so competitively, right? I'm so "godlike!"

 

[Nereus]

Yeah im done here as well.. this dude has no idea what he's talking about. It's one thing to say you don't like juggles, but your implying that you can win in competitive play without them when certain characters and certain games rely HEAVILY on them. If you really don't like juggles go play DiveKick because every fg in this era most likely has a juggle system in it.

 

[Tenryuga]

I'll just wait for Argentus to provide some of his gameplay so I can see the opponents he's been facing as well as his level of skill. That would speak much louder than words.

 

[Argentus]

Oh they do damage... but unless you do juggles in KoF or Blazblue or any fighter in general... your not going to go far in terms of competitive play. I bet you complain about Jacky juggles and how long he can juggle you even though he NEEDS to do that to get the good damage.

1) I do complain but its only because his juggles are monotnkus and really boring. Sucks the fun out of it.

2). No he doesn't need to lol. The player could get good enough to know the ins and outs of his moves to do all that same damage without juggles. But again, its just much easier to do juggles than to put in that much effort. I prefer the effort because it makes the win that much more satisfying.

So I'm an elitest now? I don't have a counter argument? My counter argument is that you wont be able to beat a good player without using combos, and it's true, and I challenge you to prove me wrong. I'd challenge you myself but I don't play the vita, if you ever got the PS3 version, I'd be happy to face you myself.

Also, since you decided to resort to name calling, I'll no longer take anything you say seriously, since I personally held back all of the shit I wanted to call you, and will continue to do so, I'll also no longer be monitoring this thread. Good luck on your quest to beat people who matter without utilizing a part of the game's mechanics, I'll be sure to remember your name so I can look out for you when you're getting top 8 at evo.

Lol you're the one who started throwing scrub around...

Also, putting aside competitiveness and who's good or whatnot....why the fuck would I pour all that time money and effort to go out to evo....just to impress you? Lot easier for you to just get a vita lol. Or me to get it on ps3, bit I don't like buying things twice.

Though I will tell you this. I may well lost to you but I can also guarantee I will win a couple times. I'm not used to bb, its not my game of choice. But I can spot when my style works and when I just need to refine it with my character. I'm currently switching from makoto to bullet, who ive been told is the worst character in the game.

But god I love people like you who rage like this lol. "No! You have to play in THiS Exact Way and no other!"

Sooooo......This means me as a user of Phase-4..I could win without her teleports for juggles and win in casual matches..even more so competitively, right? I'm so "godlike!"

Dunno her well enough, but since her teleports are string animations it doesn't really matter.

But winning without the bonus damage from juggles would, by definition, make you a good/better player. Sure you could Learn to hit and run with her. There's a way to make it work with any character.

Yeah im done here as well.. this dude has no idea what he's talking about. It's one thing to say you don't like juggles, but your implying that you can win in competitive play without them when certain characters and certain games rely HEAVILY on them. If you really don't like juggles go play DiveKick because every fg in this era most likely has a juggle system in it.

Lol, all I said was I don't personally like/use/have a need for them. I knew there would be flaming and raging over me saying that.

Hell I already called it back on first page.


Anyways I have little interest in a flame war so I'll just reiterate my thoughts on the subject and wash my hands of this.

1). I find juggles to be excrutiatingly boring and unimpressive. Thus I don't utilize them much.
2). I strongly believe that the over reliance on juggles for damage hurts the fgc as a whole.

 

[Desjah Rei]

Dunno her well enough, but since her teleports are string animations it doesn't really matter.

But winning without the bonus damage from juggles would, by definition, make you a good/better player. Sure you could Learn to hit and run with her. There's a way to make it work with any character..

Allow me to enlighten you a tad bit upon Phase-4. It is practically impossible. She has the worst frames out of every character in the game. You would like to poke, however, she possesses almost none that is safe. All one needs to know how to do is throw you. Do nothing but poke, and you WILL become a tick thrown sumo toy. Play like that and I guarantee you even Eliot would say "I'm a grappler now!"

 

[tokiopewpew]

But winning without the bonus damage from juggles would, by definition, make you a good/better player. Sure you could Learn to hit and run with her. There's a way to make it work with any character.

Hit n run? May you show me how to do that in DOA? Doesn't matter which character.

 

[Nereus]

1) I do complain but its only because his juggles are monotnkus and really boring. Sucks the fun out of it.

2). No he doesn't need to lol. The player could get good enough to know the ins and outs of his moves to do all that same damage without juggles. But again, its just much easier to do juggles than to put in that much effort. I prefer the effort because it makes the win that much more satisfying.

He NEEDS to do long juggles to get high damage off his combos, this is why you don't know what your talking about. It is NOT easier to do juggles with Jacky because they require execution AND they require effort. You obviously don't use the character to know what the hell your talking about. I don't understand how showing how much you practice with the consistent juggles you do with Jacky is "boring".

 

[DestructionBomb]

 

[Tenryuga]

@Brute do the honors please.