D.I.D. 8: Aftermath

[DR2K]

Once again, you can hold or block the (unsafe) low sweep, and continue SE or holding after the sweep.

Every character has something that's too good.

Mila: SS OH

Jann: HERP

Genfu: DERP

Bass: Pick up game

Leifang: parry stance

Kokoro: Guard breaks

VF characters: Frame advantage

Bayman: derp wall game.

 

[Jefffcore]

Except Busa, Helena, and Genfu dominated tournaments. People did not "guess right" against them. It was a triangle of death, and everyone outside of that triangle failed miserably.

Also, it's not a 50/50. That would assume you have even odds of escaping and you don't. For every one option you take, at least two of Helena's options will hit you. Opt for a mid counter of any sort and you take an even greater gamble.

I said it as a joke to Mamba at first, but In fact by removing the human element and just rolling your face on the controller, the odds are likely to improve in Helena's favor, ironically. You would end up getting an entirely random and completely unpredictable result that is tilted in her favor via base probability.

You could even say, random mashers would have the greatest level of success.

The level of play in DOA4 wasn't very high.

You're complaining about something that you can't get out of easily, which is how it should be. It doesn't make any sense. If she hits you with the low you still have another chance to fuckin guess out of it.

Jann Lee can take 2-3 guesses and take half your health and no one complains about that. (It doesn't matter if it loops, it's half your health) Why? Because it's how it should be.

Quit complaining.

Have you played MK?!?!

 

[Skilletor]

It's just funny that this "loop" is so "powerful" because of the flaws inherent in DoA's gameplay. Hilarious.

 

[Rikuto]

Quit complaining.

I said what I said on stream, and then I was done.

Y'all are the ones who wanted to pick a fight and drag it out... which is how it always happens, because EVERYBODY who wasn't around gota get their two cents in and be the big dog. Why don't you quit complaining about my complaining?

 

[Jefffcore]

lol That's my line.

It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to see anything nerfed, either.

 

[Rikuto]

lol That's my line.

It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to see anything nerfed, either.

A good character is fine. But a character that equates to nonstop guessing and illogical decision making is simply bad gameplay. I would rather she was buffed in other areas and had the retarded guessing game toned down. It's just bad gameplay.... why would anyone want that in the game?

Are people that scared they won't be able to compete without it?

 

[DR2K]

A good character is fine. But a character that equates to nonstop guessing and illogical decision making is simply bad gameplay. I would rather she was buffed in other areas and had the retarded guessing game toned down. It's just bad gameplay.... why would anyone want that in the game?

That's sort of how she was designed. She doesn't take advantage of powerblows, CBs, sitdown stuns, or any of the DOA5 mechanics that make a character good. She literally had nothing going for her until this tech popped up. It's plays to how she's designed, to be a guess based character.

If they want to go ahead and make her a solid DOA5 character and do away with the "this makes her too simple" nonsense then fine, but if not then this tech needs to stay.

 

[Rikuto]

That's sort of how she was designed. She doesn't take advantage of powerblows, CBs, sitdown stuns, or any of the DOA5 mechanics that make a character good. She literally had nothing going for her until this tech popped up. It's plays to how she's designed, to be a guess based character.

If they want to go ahead and make her a solid DOA5 character and do away with the "this makes her too simple" nonsense then fine, but if not then this tech needs to stay.

Midget versus Mike Tyson.

Giving the midget a death ray does not make this a good fight.

 

[BloodyNights]

I for one dislike guessing in my fighting games, now don't get it confused with mix ups. If it's a mix up that I can visually see but I've gotta really be on my game to make sure I watch out for it that is perfectly alright to me.

Example being most characters PP strings that go into a low. The faster option is always the third P, the slower would be the low attack. This makes it still an effective mix up, but it's something that you can react to.

50/50's or 75/25's are just retarded in any fighter regardless of what tools they have. something should be fixed. Even with the guessing in stun crap, before the actual stun occurs, I'd like it to have more of something that resembles mind games instead of guesses. Thats just my take on it, this game does well on that for the most part however... not in some areas.

 

[TRI Mike]

I'd rather she got better in other areas. Playing Hele with cool unholdables and a cool set of + stance transitions would be better than this forced tech shit.

 

[Brute]

I for one dislike guessing in my fighting games, now don't get it confused with mix ups. If it's a mix up that I can visual see but I've gotta really be on my game to make sure I watch out for it that is perfectly alright to me.

That problem extends to more than just helena. For example, both Lisa and Tina have backflip/jump throws that look (at least nearly) identical to some of their jumping kick somersaults. Unless I'm blind, those scenarios really throw you into a pickle.

 

[Nereus]

you guys are acting like some farts lol

 

[Chaos]

lol That's my line.

It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to see anything nerfed, either.

But.....but..Helena's forced tech... LOL

 

[Nereus]

The level of play in DOA4 wasn't very high.

You're complaining about something that you can't get out of easily, which is how it should be. It doesn't make any sense. If she hits you with the low you still have another chance to fuckin guess out of it.

Jann Lee can take 2-3 guesses and take half your health and no one complains about that. (It doesn't matter if it loops, it's half your health) Why? Because it's how it should be.

Quit complaining.

Have you played MK?!?!

MK9 Scorpion = 50/50 vertex. If you guess wrong you eat 40-50 % health guess right you take away 40/50%

 

[shinryu]

So unless I'm doing something vastly wrong, I can't get her into BKO 2k or sidestep k fast enough to beat shit after a pseudo force tech from the slaps at all. Even at fastest execution it's still 27 frames minimum. Of course it looks like she can get a legit force tech from 1ppk whenever the hell she wants off 9k and of course BKO f+p 8k BKO ppk works like a charm, and either of those give a legit force tech and she has plenty of time to set up. So it's not quite as dumb as I thought since she can't get it whenever she wants. But it's still pretty goddamn dumb.

 

[Nereus]

could someone explain to me why this helena tech is illogical/stupid? im late at the party

 

[Prince Adon]

I've been here since this discussion started and I don't even know. From what I get that is because it makes the "guessing" loop to small and hard for people to get out of in the conclusion. Not sure why that is a problem. People did ask for more guaranteed stuff in DOA.

 

[Berzerk!]

If it was so bad in 4 then why didnt Helena dominate in every single tournament played?

To be fair mamba did dominate the last two open entry large tournaments in wcg world finals and fighters club, and there being lots of other crazy stuff in the game does address it as does the fact that there is quite a lot of variety in character selection among the top players.

So not a point that disproves anything, really. Top players will deal with overpowered mechanics but that doesn't necessarily suggest they are ok or should have to.

Truthfully the force tech thing is cool but I agree with Rikuto that the ease and variety of string enders that helena can use makes it repetitious and too much guessing on the defender - if it was toned down to a more defined mindgame of clear choices, a smart defender would have more educated opportunities to reverse the loop

Ideally the defender just takes the throw by blocking smartly on the strings but the throw puts them back into it. That's where the situation should reset and take players back to neutral game

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

A good character is fine. But a character that equates to nonstop guessing and illogical decision making is simply bad gameplay. I would rather she was buffed in other areas and had the retarded guessing game toned down. It's just bad gameplay.... why would anyone want that in the game?

Are people that scared they won't be able to compete without it?

I can do better more damaging combo's without 33P4P. Using that technique makes every combo look exactly the same and quite frankly gets boring after a while. I want a solid character, I don't want a shit character with one BS tactic that makes up for the fact she is garbage in almost every area. But if she isn't going to be buffed then I will take BS Helena.

 

[UncleKitchener]

It's just funny that this "loop" is so "powerful" because of the flaws inherent in DoA's gameplay. Hilarious.

This is one major problem I have with this game. These silly things started happening when they started doing dumb shit like messing with the stun system and adding this Tekken ground game. These games were fine as they were, really.