Rikuto
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Thats because bad shit was going on. Again, honest commentary.
D.I.D. 8: Aftermath
- Thread starter Scornwell
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Thats because bad shit was going on. Again, honest commentary.
XV MR ARMANI
Active Member
I'm just going to agree to disagree at this point. Nuff said.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
People like the broken shit.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Wrong kind of broken.
shunwong
Active Member
Not everyone. I remember Perfect Legend mentioned it weeks ago on the tier list thread. He said that "the force tech thing Mamba has found out alone makes her not low tier" or something like that.
Here's the quote:
The new forced tech shit Mamba found pretty much merits my case of why she doesn't need any buffs. She can constantly keep pressure and never have to deal with invincible wake up kicks. The only thing she needs is for the life bar to not be on 300 life (the old largest but new normal) we should be playing on 240 life.
Perfect Legend, Oct 23, 2012Not to panic anyone, but if people want to try this setup against a teching opponent, I've got this to work against Kasumi and Jann Lee fairly consistently in training mode:
9k 6kk BKO f+p (or BKO f+p 4ppkk BKO f+p)
There appears to be a timing where the BKO throw can catch the tech roll before the opponent can attack. It's not foolproof as you can still come up crouching and I think everyone can actually do this this (Tina can juggle with 6pp6k and either walk up into whatever throw or crouch dash into WR 64f+p for the same effect against a tech roll), but timed properly this means there's basically fuck all people can do against throws if they tech except duck or a low attack (which, incidentally, will be low thrown with proper timing, though this is harder). Also, this will not work against force techs; the opponent has to tech on their own. Still, this is obviously nasty for Helena as she can mix up BKO mids and the BKO throw to get another juggle going. You can get out of this setup by not teching, but now you need to be concerned about whether it's a setup where you should tech or you shouldn't, basically. If people consistently tech against pseudo attempts you have a hard mixup that they must try to block/hold against.
I'm still torn on Helena's situation at this point. She's got a stupid loop in stun to 9k 1ppk for genuine force tech and if she gets a genuine force tech it's all in on BKO 2k/mid/throw mixups, which looks to be the strongest mixup on force tech in the game. On the other hand if you tech her pseudos (BKO f+p, 8k, BKO pp2k or the 33p4p BKO 6p, for example) she's really no better off than anyone else's pseudo since she can't use BKO 2k. She can still guess low with 1p after a pseudo in any case and beat sidesteps but she's not going to get the stun on normal hit from that; depending on the exact force tech situation a fast mid might still beat her 1p. On the other hand, if she expects a tech she can now potentially throw with impunity even against strikes. It does still seem like BKO 2k might need a nerf.
9k 6kk BKO f+p (or BKO f+p 4ppkk BKO f+p)
There appears to be a timing where the BKO throw can catch the tech roll before the opponent can attack. It's not foolproof as you can still come up crouching and I think everyone can actually do this this (Tina can juggle with 6pp6k and either walk up into whatever throw or crouch dash into WR 64f+p for the same effect against a tech roll), but timed properly this means there's basically fuck all people can do against throws if they tech except duck or a low attack (which, incidentally, will be low thrown with proper timing, though this is harder). Also, this will not work against force techs; the opponent has to tech on their own. Still, this is obviously nasty for Helena as she can mix up BKO mids and the BKO throw to get another juggle going. You can get out of this setup by not teching, but now you need to be concerned about whether it's a setup where you should tech or you shouldn't, basically. If people consistently tech against pseudo attempts you have a hard mixup that they must try to block/hold against.
I'm still torn on Helena's situation at this point. She's got a stupid loop in stun to 9k 1ppk for genuine force tech and if she gets a genuine force tech it's all in on BKO 2k/mid/throw mixups, which looks to be the strongest mixup on force tech in the game. On the other hand if you tech her pseudos (BKO f+p, 8k, BKO pp2k or the 33p4p BKO 6p, for example) she's really no better off than anyone else's pseudo since she can't use BKO 2k. She can still guess low with 1p after a pseudo in any case and beat sidesteps but she's not going to get the stun on normal hit from that; depending on the exact force tech situation a fast mid might still beat her 1p. On the other hand, if she expects a tech she can now potentially throw with impunity even against strikes. It does still seem like BKO 2k might need a nerf.
Not everyone thought that. Not to sound elitist, but I recognized her force tech potential in less than a week after I started playing, and I rarely ever used her. Apparently Mamba, PL and many others here and elsewhere did the same. It was only the dismissive folks who signed her off too quickly (ironically, it was mostly those who mained her).
HiguraShiki
Active Member
Zeo
Well-Known Member
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
This thread has indeed been magical.
I laughed, I cried, I ate a gallon of ice cream and watched some porn... but alas all good things come to an end.
If folks would like to continue the Helena discussion, anyone can feel free to invade the Helena subforum. I think this thread has pretty much run its course, however.
I laughed, I cried, I ate a gallon of ice cream and watched some porn... but alas all good things come to an end.
If folks would like to continue the Helena discussion, anyone can feel free to invade the Helena subforum. I think this thread has pretty much run its course, however.
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