Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
How about leaving blank slots next to whats printed on the same page for each section ex:
Start up 5, -patch - Active 7 -patch -, etc.
Dead or Alive 5 Alpha Demo System and Character Discussions
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
How about leaving blank slots next to whats printed on the same page for each section ex:
Start up 5, -patch - Active 7 -patch -, etc.
x Sypher x
Active Member
He did say you get ONE chance to hold.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
You might as well. I won't be able to make any vids until I order me a new capture card.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Unless I'm just not following you, wouldn't that still be doubling the size of every table?
One chance after the stun... which means you had a chance to hold the move that stunned you. Two total chances.
Again, I have hope for the game, I'm just expressing my opinion on what I think would make it appeal to competitive players from other communities.
x Sypher x
Active Member
Oh ok, well since you put it that way yeah that makes sense.
Gill Hustle
Well-Known Member
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
You could just print smaller numbers.
But yeah that's the best I got.
Yeah... even with smaller numbers I can't see fitting the frame data in less than 2 pages per character. Given the assumed ~25 character roster, that's 50 pages for frame data. Unfortunately, I can't see a publisher approving an extra 25-50 pages for blank spaces. Not to mention, the average player who has no use for frame data would have to wonder why there's a fill-in-the-blank section in the strategy guide. lol
Game Over
Well-Known Member
I would think there'd be enough white space in any frame data table to accommodate splitting it into extra (blank) boxes for updates. Or ... just leave the white space there, in key positions, for players to write-in updates next to the original data.
For example:
http://www.deadoralive.jp/doa4/al/pdf/doa4_al-hayabusa-e_on.pdf
^^ Note the amount of white space available that could accommodate extra boxes by simply shifting some others around slightly. It's not hard to see be able to do this.
EDIT: I guess, if nothing else, having updated frame data made available online would always be useful.
For example:
http://www.deadoralive.jp/doa4/al/pdf/doa4_al-hayabusa-e_on.pdf
^^ Note the amount of white space available that could accommodate extra boxes by simply shifting some others around slightly. It's not hard to see be able to do this.
EDIT: I guess, if nothing else, having updated frame data made available online would always be useful.
-The following sentences in the quote explained what I was referring to.
-Im not sure how many launchers each character have. Will test it out soon. Low holding in stun makes no difference when the mixup is between a mid attack and throw. The defender do not automatically get two chances to mess up. This demo shows that the offensive player has different ways to punish those who mess up the first time! The stun game do not occur at ever happenstance like Doa4. You can go for a straight launcher or knock back/down attack and not worry about the stun game. You can go for a true combo and not worry about the stun game or you can use an attack that will cause a stun that is inescapable. You the player is the only one who decides what way you want to punish.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
In a print guide, the tables would almost certainly be tighter than that to conserve space. However, it also depends on what the target page count is.
Still not following you...
Normal throws are high and don't hit stunned opponents (I assume?), which means that my choice would be to low hold and avoid the throw/get low thrown, or remain in the stun and either get launched or watch you whiff a throw. That's what I'm getting, unless I'm missing something?
From the looks of things, the ground game is limited at this point, which means if you want decent damage you need to launch the opponent. So going for a knockdown is not the ideal option.
Going for a straight launcher would depend on the frame data of that launcher. If it's unsafe or slow to execute then that's not a good option either.
How much damage do you get from natural combos? If it's minimal, that's not a good alternative either.
-A launch from a stun+New juggle system will allow you to do enough damage from a stun~launch. The mix up of a mid launcher and Throw is now viable again. You get one chance to hold and if you fuck up, you are going to pay!
-Meaning, unlike Doa4, you do not have to continue attacking and risk getting held multiple times until you reach the stun threshold so you can get a high launch to get a good(punish worthy) juggle. You will get a decent launch+good(punish worthy) juggle immediately.
-Yes you are missing something. The order of events is very important. Your opponent is stunned, the only thing he can do is either hold or SE. But lets say your opponent only holds(which this discussion is all about), your mid attack(preferably Launcher or Knock back attack) will be successful if your opponent:
- Do nothing.
- Hold High.
- Hold Low.
- Hold Mid late.
- Expert Hold Mid .
-It is purely dependent on the situation. You may opt to do a launcher and it may possibly do more damage, even possibly a knock-back as well. However, you may get more potential damage from knocking your opponent down, than reposition+Juggle+Environmental damage or Reposition+Knock-back+Environmental damage.
-There are more factors involved that you have omitted. For the most part, players will use launching attacks that execute in the 13-17 frame range. Spacing and whiff punishment will negate the slow to execute factor. Also the use of said attacks at optimum frame advantage would negate the slow to execute factor. Using said launcher against a stunned opponent will also negate both the slow to execute, and unsafe on block factor. At the end of the day it is all about risk/vs reward.
-Depends on the Character and situation. Using
- on normal = 41 pts(approximately 6x+low jab = death).
- on normal with wall hit = 46 pts(approximately 6x = death).
- on normal with explosive wall hit = 56 pts(approximately 5x = death).
- on normal with wall+fall+ledge hang-on = 90pts(approximately 3x = death).
- on normal with wall+fall+without ledge hang-on = 120pts(approximately 2.25x = death).
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
You've probably already thought of this but... How about you persuade the publisher to create a frame data guide supplement as a PDF online and refer readers of the printed guide to view it?
Then you could use the limited space in the guide to have a breakout of a few key moves with frame data and include an explanation of how to read frame data and why it's useful. A digital version of the guide could have inline links and be sold with the game...
Then you could use the limited space in the guide to have a breakout of a few key moves with frame data and include an explanation of how to read frame data and why it's useful. A digital version of the guide could have inline links and be sold with the game...
The Faceless Master
New Member
i have been complaining about that (and the faster recovery on low holds) since Doa2!
I'm going to preface this by saying that I am not, and never have been, a Hayate player, and know next to nothing about the character, so this could be a stupid question.
I was messing around with him during some matches with Gill last night, and I noticed he has a hold (either mid kick or high kick) that launched, but I wasn't able to juggle after it. Has it always been that way? I unfortunately don't have the demo, so I can't really check myself.
I was messing around with him during some matches with Gill last night, and I noticed he has a hold (either mid kick or high kick) that launched, but I wasn't able to juggle after it. Has it always been that way? I unfortunately don't have the demo, so I can't really check myself.
If this is what I think it is, then no, it's kinda shit. Hayate's pretty shitty in the demo, which is good thing because I think the character is boring and deserved that after the whole cartwheel ordeal.
Belinea
Active Member
Man, Hayate really is a shadow of his former self. He lost 88/22k, 7p (replaced with 4P+K), the kick after 2k, pp4pp, 236F, and all his new and great doa:d tools like f+k6 to name a few. Despite that I really enjoy playing as him, he feels somewhat well-rounded.
Also I had assumed because Hitomi and Kasumi had lost their ability to ground bounce the opponent that the mechanic had been taken out, but Ayane can still do it with 4k. Cool Stuff.
His kick hold, now his expert kick hold, launches. You can follow up on it with a juggle though, so it mightn't be that one.
Also I had assumed because Hitomi and Kasumi had lost their ability to ground bounce the opponent that the mechanic had been taken out, but Ayane can still do it with 4k. Cool Stuff.
His kick hold, now his expert kick hold, launches. You can follow up on it with a juggle though, so it mightn't be that one.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
The guide will have a digital version no matter what. If we get word from Tecmo that there will be a patch for DOA5, then it's possible to make a site that has frame data, which can be updated. However, it all depends on how deep the frame data in the game is. If I have to use debug tools to get some of the frame data, I can't do that with a retail copy of the game (which would be the updated version).
I understood that part. I just don't understand what "DOA4 Bs" means.
-Yes you are missing something. The order of events is very important. Your opponent is stunned, the only thing he can do is either hold or SE. But lets say your opponent only holds(which this discussion is all about), your mid attack(preferably Launcher or Knock back attack) will be successful if your opponent:
-All the offensive player have to do is continue doing the Mid attack until the defender decides to mid hold. Once that happen, the offensive player can start using a throw to punish. The odds are heavily stacked in the offensive players favor, considering the defensive player need to hold to escape the stun. The defender must decide whether or not its worth holding out of the stun. Depending on both the character and the situation, a throw maybe more punishing than the attack, so the defender will eat the attack. The attack could be more damaging than the throw(launcher+Juggle+environmental finisher), so the defender will risk the hold. The more time the defensive player wait(delay), and/or is indecisive to hold, the odds of the offensive player getting a successful launcher or throw increases. Let it be known that the offensive player is the one to act(he dictates what the defensive player will do), while it is up to the defensive player to react. In this scenario, it is all about choosing the lesser of two evils.
- Do nothing.
- Hold High.
- Hold Low.
- Hold Mid late.
- Expert Hold Mid
How is that any different than DOA4? All I'm seeing is "stun, now both players guess". Sure, there are less guesses because the stun no longer has to be extended, but some characters in DOA4 didn't have to extend the stun. The original problem is still there.
Are there any situations in the demo in which you get more damage from knocking the opponent down compared to a launcher+combo?
How do spacing and whiff punishment negative the slow to execute factor? If an attack is slow, it's difficult to whiff punish with it (if it's possible at all). That's especially true in DOA where the risk from missing a whiff punish is much higher. In other games, if you're late on a whiff punish, the opponent just blocks. In DOA, the opponent can counter because holds execute in 0 frames.
Also, attacks seem to have less recovery on whiff in DOA, compared to other fighting games. As I've stated before, it's harder to whiff punish in DOA than pretty much any other fighting game. The opponent pretty much has to whiff right in your face.
-Depends on the Character and situation. Using
-It is not the best under the most minimal conditions, however, it does decent damage overall, and it provides far more guaranteed damage than what was present in Doa4 under the same conditions. When it is said and done, the normal launcher is a valuable asset and only cement the foundation of solid competitive play!
Wait... this was in response to natural combos right? Isn't that a launch combo?
x Sypher x
Active Member
DOA4 BULLSHIT maybe? He probably let go of the shift key while typing the 's' lol.