DOA 3.1 vs DOA5

[Dr. Teeth]

with sidestep improving and damage increasing overall would you say its gotten closer to DOA3.1?

Yes and no. 3.1 didn't have a sidestep the way 5 does. Instead, the freestep was so good that you could get around the sort of things that the SS is designed to deal with (hence why this site is called FreeStepDodge). The freestep itself in 5 is practically useless. In my experience, I've had a much easier time avoiding stuff with 3.1's freestep than I have with 5's sidestep, but I don't have the patch yet, so I can't comment on the changes they've made. It's definitely a step up from DOA 4's freestep, which might as well have not even been in the game.

The main thing that keeps 5 from being like 3 is that it's too stun heavy and emphasizes guessing on a far greater degree. If anything, I'd say that DOA 5 at this point is closer to a more solid version of DOA 4 than it is to 3. It's just a totally different approach to game design. Some people like that, some people don't. At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference and what you want in a fighting game.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Instead, the freestep was so good that you could get around the sort of things that the SS is designed to deal with (hence why this site is called FreeStepDodge).

I have to disagree with you on this in all honesty. The Free Step system was hardly better than DOA5's side step system. That is because there was nothing to really help you say if you could step or not. More often than not the only things you could step were already bad moves or moves that you couldn't actually react to. There was nothing you could do to avoid Hayate's 66PP besides holding or guarding it, same for Jann Lee's 6PK.

Also, I found awhile ago that FSDing a wake-up kick only happens if you knockdown an opponent doing a side step attack. It's their own off-axis tracking that's allowing you to do so.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

I have to disagree with you on this in all honesty. The Free Step system was hardly better than DOA5's side step system. That is because there was nothing to really help you say if you could step or not. More often than not the only things you could step were already bad moves or moves that you couldn't actually react to. There was nothing you could do to avoid Hayate's 66PP besides holding or guarding it, same for Jann Lee's 6PK.

You're right. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of freestepping being a better tool for general mobility than the ss, but not necessarily as a defensive technique. I probably should have clarified.

Also, I found awhile ago that FSDing a wake-up kick only happens if you knockdown an opponent doing a side step attack. It's their own off-axis tracking that's allowing you to do so.

Oh word. I thought it could be done regardless of the opponent's positioning, but there was just a very small window to step. TIL.

 

[grap3fruitman]

There was nothing you could do to avoid Hayate's 66PP besides holding or guarding it, same for Jann Lee's 6PK.

If I recall correctly, you told Shimbori face-to-face that you were able to step 6PK on reaction.

 

[Matt Ponton]

As is typical, your memory fails you.

I told him I could hold 6PK on reaction.

 

[Zeo]

Here's an interesting question. How does DOA5 1.03 + Glitch shape up to DOA3.1?

I'd be interested in the responses to this question.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

Here's an interesting question. How does DOA5 1.03 + Glitch shape up to DOA3.1?

I'd be interested in the responses to this question.

Isn't that what the OP was?

 

[Zeo]

Isn't that what the OP was?

It was comparing the DOA5 of then, to 3.1. As of the "glitch" however the game has completely changed. I'm curious as to how the game as is, shapes up to the golden standard of DOA.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

It was comparing the DOA5 of then, to 3.1. As of the "glitch" however the game has completely changed. I'm curious as to how the game as is, shapes up to the golden standard of DOA.

Ah you're right. Well I kinda answered how I feel about the two in an earlier post, but I'll paraphrase. DOA 5 won't really be all that similar to DOA 3 until they tone down the stunning and guessing. I don't have the new patch yet so I can't really comment, but I don't think they've done that massive of a system overhaul to change that, so it'll probably stay the same. I'm not saying DOA 5 is bad or isn't viable or not fun or anything. It's just not quite what 3.1 is competitively, and the patch probably won't change that.

 

[Rikuto]

They are still very different experiences, so its hard to directly compare them.

v 1.03 is definitely better than every other version of DOA 5 before it, though.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Even the E3 and GVN builds?

 

[Rikuto]

Well when you look at E3 as a whole, the system mechanics were pretty solid but you could still stagger out of setups. Most characters kinda sucked in general too. They just suffered from overall poor frames. Bayman and Kokoro stood out in that build complete badasses and were allowed to shine. We had hoped more characters would be modeled after them.

In terms of overall enjoyability, you probably were not going to enjoy E3 much unless you played one of those two characters. System wise, it was great though.

GVN was overall much more balanced across the board and people had some fairly scary stuff available to them in terms of frames, but not for damage. The ground game was also probably the strongest in this build.

Current patch has buffed several characters and "nerfed" a couple... who in some cases ended up more powerful anyway. The ground game has become very weak for several characters, but their damage output is through the roof thanks to the lack of stagger. Wakeup kicks were also nerfed in a big way, making it one of the most welcome additions to DOA ever and almost completely makes up for the weaker ground game. I would say the ground game is probably closer to that of VF than other games right now, and that's probably what they were aiming for.

Mostly though, it's the guaranteed damage increase. DOA needed guaranteed damage, and it got it. This applies pretty much entirely across the board so it's a sweeping improvement to the game.

At this point I'm at the phase where I feel like holds in stun no longer bothers me. I'm feeling that 3.1 vibe of "ok it stopped me, whatever." but if I guess right its "Damn son. You got fucked." The only thing I have a desperate need to see right now are throw breaks. The game needs it, its a very basic system mechanic and with it missing it makes the game greatly favor the aggressor and detracts from alternate playstyles. I prefer to play defensively and do all of my damage at once when I scout out a critical mistake, so it pisses me off to some degree when I can't play a smart defense because of that.

 

[shunwong]

I have an Xbox so havent tested the patch. I love the idea of a ground game closer to VF. Not sure about throw breaks at this point though. They'd be great but they seem necessary to punish holds in DOA's system.

 

[Rikuto]

I have an Xbox so havent tested the patch. I love the idea of a ground game closer to VF. Not sure about throw breaks at this point though. They'd be great but they seem necessary to punish holds in DOA's system.

No, thats different entirely.

High-counter throws would stay unbreakable, much like 5 frame neutral throws are also unbreakable at high-counter.

 

[Kronin]

@ Rikuto: Could you explain me briefly what you mean for throws break, please? I think that off course you are not talking about the ability to end on reaction the adversary's throw like it's already possible to do.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

@ Rikuto: Could you explain me briefly what you mean for throws break, please? I think that off course you are not talking about the ability to end on reaction the adversary's throw like it's already possible to do.

The only throws that you can break in DOA are standing neutral throws on NH and combo throws. Every other throw in the game is unbreakable. This is bad. The competitive scene has been trying to get TN to implement true throw breaking in the game, kind of like what's found in VF and Tekken. Even Street Fighter has breakable (techable) throws. It's just another way to reward a player for playing smart defense.

 

[Kronin]

Thanks for the answer Dr.Teeth. Anyway I thought that the umbreakability of the other throws was well balanced by the major slowness.

 

[Chaos]

Well when you look at E3 as a whole, the system mechanics were pretty solid but you could still stagger out of setups. Most characters kinda sucked in general too. They just suffered from overall poor frames. Bayman and Kokoro stood out in that build complete badasses and were allowed to shine. We had hoped more characters would be modeled after them.

In terms of overall enjoyability, you probably were not going to enjoy E3 much unless you played one of those two characters. System wise, it was great though.

GVN was overall much more balanced across the board and people had some fairly scary stuff available to them in terms of frames, but not for damage. The ground game was also probably the strongest in this build.

Current patch has buffed several characters and "nerfed" a couple... who in some cases ended up more powerful anyway. The ground game has become very weak for several characters, but their damage output is through the roof thanks to the lack of stagger. Wakeup kicks were also nerfed in a big way, making it one of the most welcome additions to DOA ever and almost completely makes up for the weaker ground game. I would say the ground game is probably closer to that of VF than other games right now, and that's probably what they were aiming for.

Mostly though, it's the guaranteed damage increase. DOA needed guaranteed damage, and it got it. This applies pretty much entirely across the board so it's a sweeping improvement to the game.

At this point I'm at the phase where I feel like holds in stun no longer bothers me. I'm feeling that 3.1 vibe of "ok it stopped me, whatever." but if I guess right its "Damn son. You got fucked." The only thing I have a desperate need to see right now are throw breaks. The game needs it, its a very basic system mechanic and with it missing it makes the game greatly favor the aggressor and detracts from alternate playstyles. I prefer to play defensively and do all of my damage at once when I scout out a critical mistake, so it pisses me off to some degree when I can't play a smart defense because of that.

Unbreakable throws is another issue that irritates me about DOA5.

 

[Musourenka]

At this point I'm at the phase where I feel like holds in stun no longer bothers me. I'm feeling that 3.1 vibe of "ok it stopped me, whatever." but if I guess right its "Damn son. You got fucked." The only thing I have a desperate need to see right now are throw breaks. The game needs it, its a very basic system mechanic and with it missing it makes the game greatly favor the aggressor and detracts from alternate playstyles. I prefer to play defensively and do all of my damage at once when I scout out a critical mistake, so it pisses me off to some degree when I can't play a smart defense because of that.

As long as throws would still be inescapable during move recovery (i.e. throw punish), I'm cool with throws being breakable in most situations.

 

[dawnbringer]

As long as throws would still be inescapable during move recovery (i.e. throw punish), I'm cool with throws being breakable in most situations.

Punishing strike recovery with neutral throw is escapable in the current version, i.e. it is not guaranteed punish.

Making fast (faster than 10 frames) throws escapable would buff safety for everyone a lot.